kurazy kracka

so just got a new trans in the car, 4l65e in a gto. when i pop the car in reverse, drive, or 3 the car surges and pulls insanely hard ahead and will stall out, wants to pull forward real hard. in 1 or 2 it is fine like a normal car.

tuner messed with it for about 2 hrs trying to change everything there was and came to the conclusion that it was an internal issue in the trans.

any idea what would be causing this? valve body issue? he isn't a trans guy and my trans guy isn't too local so it may take me a bit to get the car to him to have it checked out. hp tuners shows line pressure in 1-2 at idle with foot on the brake around 20psi then in 3,d,r it shoots to 70. haven't gotten a chance to hook a gauge up and see what true pressure it but this does show something is totally different from one gear to another.

kurazy kracka

from the tuner

"Basically it seems that the trans pressure is ramping up so high that the trans gets so tight that its almost functioning as a lock up converter. The converter, however, is not locking, or commanded to lock."

idle speeds are set same in all gears too.

mrvedit

Basically for all strange trans problems you need to hook up a pressure gauge to it.
Who built it? What special parts does it have?
From what you are saying, it sounds like the converter is locking up in some gears; I have no idea how that is possible.

kurazy kracka

that's what i thought too but the tuner even commanded the converter not to lock up in hp-tuners and it was showing 0 pressure going to it so thats almost impossible i assume?

https://www.700r4l60e.com/store/prod...&cat=55&page=1

""Front pump"
Seal retainer
Late design seal
13-vane rotor with vanes, slide, rotor guide & pin assembly
Trans-Go steel rings & priming spring (under 5,500 rpm)
New replacement stator support with extra wide bushings installed
TransGo .500 boost valve

"Clutches, Steels And Pressure Plates"
4 Borg-Warner reverse/input clutches .078
4 Reverse/input "low drag" Turbulator steels .078
1 Reverse waved steel (eliminates the belleville spring that tears up the inside of the drum)
5 Borg-Warner forward clutches .070
5 Forward steels .090
2 Borg-Warner overrun clutches .078
2 Overrun steels .091
5 Borg-Warner low/reverse clutches .087
5 Low/reverse "low drag" Turbulator steels .068
8 Borg-Warner Hi-Energy 3-4 clutches .080
4 3-4 steels Kolene .060
3 3-4 Steels Kolene .076
1 3-4 top pressure plate .128
1 3-4 bottom apply pressure plate .225
1 3-4 snap ring .062

Borg Warner dual cage 29 element sprag.
Beast sunshell or GM heat treated sunshell
Borg-Warner low/reverse roller assembly (late design)
Vamac 3 lip rear seal
Transtech paper & rubber (gasket) kit
Transmission filter (OEM)
Bushings (latest updates, including Teflon front pump & extension)
Thrust washer kit
Sealing ring kit
HD Bearing kit (Timken)
Borg-Warner Hi-Energy 2-4 band
Trans-Go Performance Shift kit, with .500 boost valve & w/accumulation for nice part throttle shifts
New steel molded rubber pistons for overrun, forward & 3-4
Modified second accumulator piston, new "hardened" (RC52) pin, & seal with matching accumulator springs (allows for a very smooth 1-2 part throttle shift)
New aluminum 4th oem pin and accumulator piston
New aluminum "modified" 2nd accumulator piston for smoother part throttle shifts
New Sonnax pinless accumulator forward piston
New 2nd "hardened" (RC52) accumulator pin"

is the kit. my friend who is a gm master trans tech assembled it. He's going to put a mech gauge on it and test everything this week and see what he can find.

The converter attached to it is a brand new edge that was spec'd by Dana as well.

mrvedit

You have a nice kit from Dana,; that should be fine. And a trained mechanic assembled it; good.
Remember that whatever pressure HP Tuners shows is the "commanded pressure", not the actual pressure. Hooking up a mechanical gauge the right way to really check things. Unfortunately you can only check the line pressure, not pressure to individual clutches to the TCC.

This sure is a strange one. I wonder if the D3/D4 lines are leaking into other circuits.
I would remove the valve body (VB) and look for a broken wall between two hydraulic lines in the VB and case. Make sure the VB and case have flat surfaces and that new and correct gaskets are installed.

What year is the trans? (I want to know if it has ISS - Input Speed Sensor)

kurazy kracka

That's the first thing builder wants to do is mechanically pressure test it all. He is thinking a valve body issue too. I think he is giving Dana a call a bit later to discuss and figure it out.

Trans is an 05 out of a gto.

mrvedit

The ISS started to come out in '05 on select vehicles, don't know about the GTO.
The reason I asked, is that the ISS introduced a different pump with a shorter boost valve. When installing the Transgo Boost valve into a ISS pump, the "washer" needs to be left off; else the pressure might be too high and blow things out.
So ask the mechanic if he remembers this being an ISS trans and whether he installed the "washer" on the boost valve shown in the Transgo instructions.

kurazy kracka

Sounds good. I also linked him to the thread to follow along. Appreciate the assistance. This car has fought me the whole way.

300 miles after cam n stall the stall went out (my fault using tci) and I figured may as well do trans since it has close to 100k on it. Save up n get all that n take it for a drive once it's done and a deer comes over guard rail n into side of the car. Fml lol. Just want her done n driving well. <end rant>

kurazy kracka

so after hooking up a mechanical gauge here is what was found.
In 1 and 2 the line pressure is hitting 70psi.
In 3, D and R it is spiking as high as 180psi.

He is calling trans-go today to discuss this issue.

anyone have any insight or ever heard of or experienced this issue?

kurazy kracka

Trans-go isn't too sure of this issue either. Anyone?

mrvedit

With the HD2 kit installed, you will see these (approximate) pressures with the engine at idle:
Park - 75psi
Reverse - 175 psi (yes it is much higher!)
Neutral - 75 psi
Drive - 75 psi

Blipping the throttle will jump the pressure up/past 175psi.
At WOT, it will be around 225 psi.

If the pressure at idle in [OD] and [D3] is 175 psi, something is wrong. I would normally suspect a stuck/improper boost valve, but since it then drops to normal in [D1] and [D2], something strange and unusual is wrong.
I would suggest installing another valve body and checking the things I mentioned in #5.

kurazy kracka

Sounds good it'll start coming apart tomorrow night.

Safe to assume that it is a mechanical issue still within? Currently the tune is at just about stock for the trans settings.

mrvedit

By "apart" I assume you mean just dropping the pan and valve body. I don't think there is an internal problem that requires removing the trans. (Unless you see damage to the hydraulic lines in the case.

I cannot image any "tune" issue could cause this. If you want to be absolutely sure of that, disconnect the trans connector; it will be in "limp mode" (3rd gear) but you could still put the shifter in different positions and check the pressure.

BAMCUSTOM1

Krazy Kracka,
I have the same thing. Motor only has 200 miles on it. Taking it back Tuesday. Could you please give me a call.
562-824-6066 Chris

BAMCUSTOM1

I have a New LS2 from TurnKey Engines and a 4765E installed in a 65 GTO.
At Idle in any drive gear ( reverse also ) car surges like you are power braking. It builds up from from a soft surge to shaking the car like it has hydraulics on it. When I come to a light I have to drop it in neutral.
It feels like it just wants to go, when put back in drive and drive slow to normal the first gear shift will snap your neck, and your not even on it.
RPM's don't really change drastically. still under 750 at idle or neutral, wven when surging RPM's don't make a move that I can tell. No issue with stalling.
Any Idea's please give me a call or email.
Chris
5628246066

kurazy kracka

correct thats's what i mean by that. pan drops tonight. I'll update tonight on what we find.

really appreciate all the help.

BAM, i have no ideas on that one. I don't know much about transmissions at all so that's why I have the builder working on diagnosing it lol

mrvedit

Since you have the same symptom in "any drive gear (reverse also)", your problem is completely different.
Your TCC is locked up, most likely due to a defective converter. It cannot be an electrical or tune problem because the hydraulic paths cannot lock the TCC in [D1] and [R] (not sure about [D2]).

I ruined my TCC due to one of my hydraulic mod experiments and then had the exact symptoms you mentioned. Yank was kind enough to rebuild my converter for a minimal charge.

kurazy kracka

tried pulling the connector and testing it last night. The trans still did the same thing. The pressure on the gauge did change though by doing that??? trans guy also said it "seemed to act different with temperature"

mrvedit

Good. The pressure should have gone up because the Pressure Control Solenoid (PCS) will then force max line pressure.
That increases the probability that a new valve body will fix your problem.

Any '98 through '06 valve body should work fine. I have bought good used ones for $100, nice rebuilt ones for $150 and once even found a brand-new one for $150.

kurazy kracka

"Haven't been able to get ahold of trans go yet today, still trying.. just wondering why it doesn't wanna move much at all until it warms up, the pressure should be higher when it's cold and fluid is thicker. also noticed the pressure would jump up 2-3 seconds after engaging in drive and reverse, not sure "

Is what I just heard from trans guy.

I passed along your rec to try a diff vb as well.