When are 300m shafts necessary
When are 300m shafts necessary Building a 450-500rwtq engine and backing it up with a built transmission and billet converter.
Most mid-tier builds are relatively the same (sonnax smart shell, sonnax input drum, billet servos, wide bands, high quality clutch packs, 29 element sprags etc.) and are priced similarly. However going to the top-tier builds price skyrocket from there but they only include either hardened shafts or the 300m billet.
I will be building my 4L65E (which from what I heard already comes with some better shafts then the 60E) so would getting those upgraded components there warrant the greatly increased cost at these power levels?
Most mid-tier builds are relatively the same (sonnax smart shell, sonnax input drum, billet servos, wide bands, high quality clutch packs, 29 element sprags etc.) and are priced similarly. However going to the top-tier builds price skyrocket from there but they only include either hardened shafts or the 300m billet.
I will be building my 4L65E (which from what I heard already comes with some better shafts then the 60E) so would getting those upgraded components there warrant the greatly increased cost at these power levels?
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,114
Likes: 33
From: Fort Worth, Texas
I have seen output shafts break around that level with sticky tires, But it took well over 100 passes to do it, There was so many other things stressed out in the unit, Like the Lo roller clutch & Race, Lo/Reverse clutches, Forward Sprag outer race, Broken Reverse Input return spring cage at the snap ring, 2-4 band getting thin on the heels. 3-4's, Forwards, & Overruns looked great! It just has a new GM drum with a Sonnax Sleeve & modified Overrun piston. I installed a Good used stock Output shaft with the reasoning that by the time it breaks.....Other things will need attention!
4L60E's are not the best choice when making over 450 ft lbs (Flame On). Is it possible to swap an 80E in your vehicle?
4L60E's are not the best choice when making over 450 ft lbs (Flame On). Is it possible to swap an 80E in your vehicle?
In my humble opinion....
It has more to do with what environment your running in. If I were building one for a heavy 4X4 Tall tire application, heavy car with sticky tires and hard launches, power adders etc, I would opt for them.
The stock shafts will put up with quite a bit as long as you are not generating a ton of torque, trying to spin a monster tire or planting them with sticky tires, if you are or have plans to do so, I personally would spend the money up front and do them. Sometimes the failure is just a broken shaft and nothing more.....but sometimes it is a catastrophic failure to an otherwise good ( expensive ) transmission / converter.
I am not sure anyone can definitively tell you what the magic number is without knowing the weight, combination of your build or the use of power adders, etc. but if you would list your application and proposed driving habits, it would be easier for some of these guys that do them for a living help you make that determination.
It has more to do with what environment your running in. If I were building one for a heavy 4X4 Tall tire application, heavy car with sticky tires and hard launches, power adders etc, I would opt for them.
The stock shafts will put up with quite a bit as long as you are not generating a ton of torque, trying to spin a monster tire or planting them with sticky tires, if you are or have plans to do so, I personally would spend the money up front and do them. Sometimes the failure is just a broken shaft and nothing more.....but sometimes it is a catastrophic failure to an otherwise good ( expensive ) transmission / converter.
I am not sure anyone can definitively tell you what the magic number is without knowing the weight, combination of your build or the use of power adders, etc. but if you would list your application and proposed driving habits, it would be easier for some of these guys that do them for a living help you make that determination.
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,323
Likes: 529
From: Ann Arbor, MI
Billet shafts are around $350. If all the parts clinebarger mentions are upgraded or at least new, then a billet output shaft would be a reasonable next upgrade step. I've been told that Nitrous is particularly hard on output shafts, but no personal experience.
Note that GNGUY started a thread on building a high-end 4L60E:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...ld-thread.html
Note that GNGUY started a thread on building a high-end 4L60E:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...ld-thread.html
It has more to do with what environment your running in. If I were building one for a heavy 4X4 Tall tire application, heavy car with sticky tires and hard launches, power adders etc, I would opt for them.
The stock shafts will put up with quite a bit as long as you are not generating a ton of torque, trying to spin a monster tire or planting them with sticky tires, if you are or have plans to do so, I personally would spend the money up front and do them. Sometimes the failure is just a broken shaft and nothing more.....but sometimes it is a catastrophic failure to an otherwise good ( expensive ) transmission / converter.
I am not sure anyone can definitively tell you what the magic number is without knowing the weight, combination of your build or the use of power adders, etc. but if you would list your application and proposed driving habits, it would be easier for some of these guys that do them for a living help you make that determination.
The stock shafts will put up with quite a bit as long as you are not generating a ton of torque, trying to spin a monster tire or planting them with sticky tires, if you are or have plans to do so, I personally would spend the money up front and do them. Sometimes the failure is just a broken shaft and nothing more.....but sometimes it is a catastrophic failure to an otherwise good ( expensive ) transmission / converter.
I am not sure anyone can definitively tell you what the magic number is without knowing the weight, combination of your build or the use of power adders, etc. but if you would list your application and proposed driving habits, it would be easier for some of these guys that do them for a living help you make that determination.
It will be in a relatively light car, under 3500lbs and would be used mainly for spirited back roads driving and ocassionally some HPDE duty around a road course. Very little if any drag strip duty, so no hard launches with sticky tires whatsoever. Most hard hits would be coming from a roll whether on the roads or track.
No power adders, just a basic hci 6.0 in the mid-high 400s in terms of power.
Been doing a little bit more research and based on that plus what you said regarding use it seems that 300m steel is not really needed, especially with the 65E transmission that has slightly beefier pieces there compared to the 60E.
That make sense, I was thinking more along the lines of torque as being the limiting factor vs. the whole combination.
It will be in a relatively light car, under 3500lbs and would be used mainly for spirited back roads driving and ocassionally some HPDE duty around a road course. Very little if any drag strip duty, so no hard launches with sticky tires whatsoever. Most hard hits would be coming from a roll whether on the roads or track.
No power adders, just a basic hci 6.0 in the mid-high 400s in terms of power.
Been doing a little bit more research and based on that plus what you said regarding use it seems that 300m steel is not really needed, especially with the 65E transmission that has slightly beefier pieces there compared to the 60E.
It will be in a relatively light car, under 3500lbs and would be used mainly for spirited back roads driving and ocassionally some HPDE duty around a road course. Very little if any drag strip duty, so no hard launches with sticky tires whatsoever. Most hard hits would be coming from a roll whether on the roads or track.
No power adders, just a basic hci 6.0 in the mid-high 400s in terms of power.
Been doing a little bit more research and based on that plus what you said regarding use it seems that 300m steel is not really needed, especially with the 65E transmission that has slightly beefier pieces there compared to the 60E.
I am in somewhat the same boat, the only reason I went with the hardened input was because it was already in the drum I purchased here on the board, otherwise i would have used the stock input, I may still opt for the billet output but primarily due to the possibility of power adders in my future (really leaning to a supercharger for a fun street toy ).
In your situation, I would stick with the stock shafts personally, especially with your combo, future use and the fact that you have the 4L65E output already, I dont have that so I may go with the billet output.
