clinebarger

If you already have the Trans-Go PWM delete valve......Make sure it's installed correctly, And check all the other stuff I stated earlier in the thread.

I have 100's 4L60E's out there that lock-up just fine with NO aftermarket parts whatsoever....It just takes careful inspection & attention to detail!

mrvedit

As mentioned above, nothing special is needed to make lockup work properly.
Did the input shaft have the o-ring where it enters the converter?
Be sure to always install a new one - btw you have to remove the o-ring to remove the pump. REMEMBER the o-ring.
Most lockup problem are due to tuning and engine sensor problems; it those cases the PCM never even commands lockup.

Dave926

I'm sorry if I ask too many questions lol, or something that might have been mentioned.

This truck stresses me the **** out. Last year the 4.8 spun some bearings, sat all summer due to heat, now half way through this summer the trans *****.

In the attachment I assume (224) is the transgo pwm delete valve?

I plan on replacing the converter due to the crack I found, if the company requires pwm operation can I just skip that part?

Does the bellhousing need to be removed for pump removal? Any special tools needed to remove the pump, or just give it a couple light taps and it will wiggle out (like my th400 does)?

I'll assume the replacement pump just needs to be an LS style, any year range more desirable than another?

Mrvedit I'm going to look for a new oring, I can't be sure there ever was one on there to begin with

mrvedit

Nope - the PWM "delete" valve goes into the valve body. Nothing in the pump changes, although you could install the Sonnax 4L60E-LB1 boost valve for a bit higher and more consistent line pressure.

You will need a '98 thru '03 (or maybe '04) pump. Somewhere around '04 or '05 the pump seal changed to "compression fit" which is incompatible with earlier cases.

Yes, I think you need to remove the bell housing. You will need a special Torx-PLUS TP-50 bit for that. (OTC 6191)
You need to remove the TCC solenoid which is held with two 10mm-head bolts.
Then the o-ring and the 7 pump bolts and it can be pulled out - I use a large flat-head screw driver to leverage against the case from inside (just above the VB) and a big vice-grip on the outside pump housing to pull it out.

If you didn't have a o-ring on the input shaft I think that explains why you never had TCC lockup.

Dave926

Just to verify parts list

Pump gasket to case
Input shaft oring
Metal clad seal ?
T50 bit (already added to amazon cart)
Pump itself, safe to assume 300mm pump?

Anything else I am missing?

Thank you again

mrvedit

Make sure you ordered a TP50 bit, not just a T50 bit.

Since you have to remove the pan, you need a new pan gasket too.
I prefer the felt gaskets which can be reused to some extent, but probably require a relatively straight pan. (I use aluminum pans.)

Yes, it will be a 300mm pump, but an earlier one with the outer (to case) o-ring seal, NOT the compression fit, which I now see started around '04.
Therefore you also need that o-ring which is about 9" in diameter.

I have bought several pumps from ebay seller powertrainpartsplus.
The have a "4L60E-GM-Transmission-300mm-Pump-97-98-99-00-01-02-03" for sale now for $68.

Dave926

Bit is not officially ordered, but its the otc number you listed earlier, thank you.

Found a source for rubber pan gaskets that ive had good luck with on Amazon, and have one laying around with a filter as well.

Funny you mention that seller, I almost asked because the price is right for sure.

So on a later trans which im 98% I dont have, there isnt an oring around the pump?

Now what about the oring on the input shaft mentioned before? Im going to gamble that mine isnt there.

mrvedit

Correct, around '04 GM changed to a pump seal built into the case; the pump then has no o-ring.

I see "4L60E Transmission Gasket & Seal Kit" for about $25 on ebay. These should have all the gaskets you need for your project; I think but not sure, that they include the front seal to the pump.

While it shouldn't be necessary, if you decide to open the pump, let us know and we can give you guidance on what to check and how to reassemble it. (You need two foot-long hose clamps to align the halves.)

Dave926

I think saw similar, and looked like it had a bushing of some sort.

Where does that one go lol?

Dave926

Just a short update.

Pump came in, looks great. Not going to open it lol.
Gaskets and tool also came in

Started taking the truck apart, slowly, hour here and there as its hot and my patience is thin

Bit of a struggle getting the converter bolts out, in the context it didn't want to spin. Even after getting them all out, converter still clunks as it spins around. Measured converter to flex space, as I didn't know to before...... 0.29.

What are the chances with the converter being fucked, pump is fine and the excessive clearance was the issue with TCC lockup to begin with?

clinebarger

The clunking could be the pump, If the pump trashed.......Your going to have to get ALL the contaminants out of the unit/cooler/converter, If you just stab a pump in it...The possibility of a subsequent failure is VERY high!

Most rebuilt pumps I've seen have cast iron pump rings....Run them at your own risk, At the very least put some steel OEM 4L60E rings it it! Trans Go pump rings are cheap & a very good investment.

mrvedit

Opening and upgrading the pump is relatively easy.
The only "tool" you need for reassembly is two long hose clamps (e.g. for heating ducts) which together go around the circumference of the pump.
On re-assembly, after finger tightening the bolts, center the dual-hose clamp over the pump halves and tighten it. That aligns the halves and you can then tighten the bolts to 18 ft/lbs.

Here is what Clinebarger is referring to:
The Transgo 700-PKH kit includes the two hardened pump rings and the high RPM slide spring. I see it listed for under $10.

mrvedit

Also, if not clear from Clinebarger's comment, you should disassemble the old pump to see if there is ground up metal in it. Let us know.

Dave926

Another small update.

Fluid came out nice and red, didn't stink or anything else. Fluid is a good 1.5 yrs old, no idea on mileage but I guess between 4 to 6k miles.

Just some clutch material in the pan but normal looking according to a GMtech friend of mine.

Should have the trans out tomorrow. Found some videos on YouTube similar to Mr Rodgers (lol) that made me feel a lot better about taking the pump off. I was thinking about maybe opening up the input drum and looking at the clutches, since I think that's the area prone to issues (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

mrvedit

Just want to give you a heads-up of the "issues" that can arise when replacing the pump.

First try to only remove the pump and not the reverse drum with it. The teflon rings on the outside of the stator shaft (part of the pump) often stick inside the reverse drum and try to pull the reverse drum out with it. If the reverse drum comes out, you will have to also remove the input drum because on assembly the input and reverse drum have to be assembled and inserted as one unit.

Next, check the teflon rings on the stator shaft - removing the pump could damage/tear one and/or the rings might simply be worn out. In those case the rings need to be replaced.

Next, check the teflon rings on the input shaft to see if they might be worn out. If they are, the input drum needs to be removed too.

If you let the teflon rings sit around too long, they tend to expand and no longer fit into position. Pros use "resizers" to keep the rings tight; you can do the same by cutting the plastic from a 2L pop bottle and wrapping it around the rings, and holding it in place with hose clamps tightened only "snug" not real tight.
This is probably more of a problem with new teflon rings, but I suspect even older ones will expand over a period of a day or more.

If you decide to service/check the input drum, it lifts right out.
However it takes some technique and patience to re-install the combined input drum/reverse drum because the 3/4 clutch frictions have to align with the front planetary.
Sometimes I'm lucky and it only takes one minute, other times it takes me 10+ minutes and I have to take a rest break because the the two drums together are heavy.

PM me and I'll give you my cell phone number to call if you get stuck or need some guidance.

Dave926

I realized the whole Teflon ring thing after examining my pump (spare) a second time the other day, and started to investigate that whole deal. I planned on ordering the 2 on the pump itself (and extra just in case), but thank you for confirming about the other 3 on the input shaft as well (assuming that's the correct component I'm referencing). On a side note, the ones on the spare pump feel dry and a little stiff, normal?

Is it acceptable to tear the trans down for "look-see", without replacing seals, or should I order a paper/gasket set if everything ends up looking good? Just want to make sure nothing is trashed, burnt, cracked or broken.

I certainly appreciate the offer for an "o ****" contact. PM coming your way.

Dave926

Found the issue lol.

Guess I got lucky?

Someone already half mutilated the tp50 bolts, so thats my next adventure.

mrvedit

Yikes. Makes me wonder how that happened.
It probably chewed up the pump rotor; so good you have a new pump.

Dave926

My first thought is the .29 clearance on the flex to converter, or maybe a little extra run out due to how TCI assembles/adapts the converter.

Going to end up ordering a Circle-D budget converter I think. Stall will be a little lower than I prefer but the price is right, and they said it will take a little spray without issue.

mrvedit

That sounds like a good plan.
Yes, .29" clearance is excessive and may have caused the break.