Looking to verify lock up slip - LS1TECH - Camaro and Firebird Forum Discussion



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Looking to verify lock up slip

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Old 01-17-2016, 04:10 PM   #1
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Default Looking to verify lock up slip

2003 S10 4.8 w/60e

Converter seems to slip in 4th with the lockup engaged. Doesnt slip much if at all when the trans is cool, but once it gets over 140ish, its all over.

Trans is freshly rebuilt by a local guru, Trans-Go shift kit etc. Shifts great in all gears.

Not a stock converter, made by TCI, stalls at about 3000 on this truck.

Attached is the current tune and a log. Had someone in a FB group agree that it is TCC slip.

Quite pissed at this point.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwM...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwM...ew?usp=sharing
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Old 01-22-2016, 05:10 PM   #2
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Anyone?

New to the V8/automatic thing so stuff like this is a bit foreign to me
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Old 01-22-2016, 08:46 PM   #3
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Those TCI 3000 stall converts are junk. If your smaller than stock diameter high stalled after market torque converter doesn’t have a billet cover it will not hold up. Don’t just talk my word do a search. TCI does not make a good lock-up converter for the 4L60E. I made the same mistake and purchased a TCI 3000 stalled convertor and in less than 2 month it went out and took my new trans with it.

What size is the converter? 11?
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Old 01-22-2016, 08:52 PM   #4
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Those TCI 3000 stall converts are junk. If your smaller than stock diameter high stalled after market torque converter doesnít have a billet cover it will not hold up. Donít just talk my word do a search. TCI does not make a good lock-up converter for the 4L60E. I made the same mistake and purchased a TCI 3000 stalled convertor and in less than 2 month it went out and took my new trans with it.

What size is the converter? 11?
Not the first time I've heard that unfortunately. It's a streetfighter.

I've already contacted Circle D and Yank, as I have an S475 1.32 setup sitting in my basement and I'll need a converter to match.

I found some adaption features on HPTUNERS that will let me raise line pressure a bit (or as much as I like) when the TCI locks up, so I'll see if that helps.

If not I'll just disable TCI lockup entirely and not drive the truck far. The swap has take me 6 months to complete and I'm not waiting till a new verter comes in to drive it
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Old 01-22-2016, 09:01 PM   #5
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Trans is freshly rebuilt by a local guru, Trans-Go shift kit etc. Shifts great in all gears.

Not a stock converter, made by TCI, stalls at about 3000 on this truck
Ouch... Bummer.

Transgo was his first mistake, and the TCI converter was his second. I wonder what else he did to it...

I have used both Circle D and Yank, with several Vigilantes thrown in for good measure. All very good converters. All things being equal, I would order a Yank.
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Old 01-22-2016, 09:10 PM   #6
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Be careful when increasing line pressure. If you go too high you can break the snap ring off the end of the input drum. If the Trans-Go shift kit that was installed was a HD-2 the line pressure has already been raised a good bit. To be safe you need to put a trans line pressure gauge on the trans and keep the max line pressure under 240psi. A pressure can be bought from Amazon for around $50.
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Old 01-22-2016, 09:11 PM   #7
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Ouch... Bummer.

Transgo was his first mistake, and the TCI converter was his second. I wonder what else he did to it...

I have used both Circle D and Yank, with several Vigilantes thrown in for good measure. All very good converters. All things being equal, I would order a Yank.
Whats the issue with Transgo on a 60e? They seem to work well on 80es
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Old 01-22-2016, 09:17 PM   #8
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The TransGo boost valves are inconsistent in quality and some people don’t agree with their approach to solving the problems with this trans. I used the TransGo kit with a Sonnax boost valve and a few other Sonnax parts thrown in.
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Old 01-22-2016, 09:25 PM   #9
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Old 01-22-2016, 09:31 PM   #10
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Sorry... I'm just not a fan of Transgo in anything. They are a consumer grade product, with poor quality parts, in my opinion. I pull them out of anything that comes across my bench, especially the 4L60E's (and Dodge diesels, but that's a whole different topic...).

You don't need an off-the-shelf "shift kit" of any kind in either the '60 or the '80 to make them work well.

And, yes, certain Sonnax parts are useful, but they also have their fair share of solutions to things that aren't really problems...
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Old 01-22-2016, 09:46 PM   #11
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Dynamic396 for the non-professional builder who doesn’t have access to the same parts as the professional builder what do you recommend for some kind of a transmission improvement kit? I have been a professional auto tech for 30 years. I don’t build all that many transmissions but am more than capable when I am presented with one. Because I don’t specialize in rebuilding transmissions I don’t consider myself a professional builder.
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Old 01-22-2016, 10:31 PM   #12
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That's just it... Often it's not about actual parts, but rather knowledge and experience with a particular product. Now, granted, the average DIYer doesn't know all of the ins and outs of the hydraulics and mechanicals of their transmission, so they buy a Transgo or Superior kit and install it. I get that... And, quite honestly, they'll never know the difference. It shifts firmer than it did, so off they go until the accumulator springs start breaking and tearing up the accumulator housings and pistons, causing all kinds of mayhem. But what blows my mind is the "professional builder" that is still out there just throwing box kits at transmissions and calling them rebuilt or, worse yet, calling them "built".

I personally build a little over 200 complete transmissions per year at my shop. My two main markets, as diverse as they are, are the 700R4/4L60E market (with a few 4L80E's thrown in for good measure...) and the 4-speed Dodge diesel market (47RE/48RE).

I can build a 4L60E that shifts like a dream with nothing more than a properly sized boost valve, the right 2nd servo for the application, the right 3-4 clutch stack with the proper clearance, and a couple of sleeves that I cut on the lathe.

Conversely, a great shifting Dodge 47/48RE with good line pressure control, proper converter lockup calibrations, good converter charge pressure and corrected lube circuits requires a whole host of custom built parts (manual valve, TCC switching valve, laser-cut separator plates, custom pressure regulator spring, and on and on...).

But, an off-the-shelf "shift kit" misses the mark badly on both of these transmissions. Some are better than others and if I was to recommend an off-the-shelf kit for either of these transmissions, it would be the Superior kit.
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Old 01-23-2016, 03:31 PM   #13
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The Transgo and Sonnax shift kits replace the PWM TCC valve with an on/off one. These cause a much more abrupt application of the lockup clutch; it feels like a shift.
The stock converter is designed for the more gradual PWM apply.
Some aftermarket converters recommend the On/Off valve; they say PWM causes a little more wear of the lockup clutch. However, for other aftermarket converters, the PWM valve is recommended; it all depends on the type of friction material used.
For example CircleD recommended PWM for their triple disk that I am using. I currently have the On/Off TCC valve installed and as a result converter lockup is very abrupt.

A worn PWM TCC valve (which often causes the P1870 code) is often replaced with an On/Off valve from Transgo, Sonnax or Fitzall. To replace it with the stock PWM valve is possible, but requires a $150 tool and a $30 valve from Sonnax; IMO that is best left to a pro shop that already has the tool and knows how to use.
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Old 01-23-2016, 09:48 PM   #14
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I'm not a big Trans-Go fan either, But their TCC Regulator Valve does work, Seen it work on really worn Valve Bodies, They actually allow too much pressure to be applied to the Converter Clutch, Raising line pressure will not help.

If your losing TCC apply "Hot", You may have a leak TCC circuit, Hell a crack in the TCC Enable Solenoid can cause this.

I have also seen the TG TCC regulator valve installed backwards, This....From my experience....Causes NO TCC apply at all.

I don't like to blame converters for TCC apply issues, And/Or TC clutch failures. Yeah, TCI makes some junk, But it would suck to pull the unit...Install a expensive converter & still have issues.
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Old 01-24-2016, 08:41 AM   #15
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I'm not a big Trans-Go fan either, But their TCC Regulator Valve does work, Seen it work on really worn Valve Bodies, They actually allow too much pressure to be applied to the Converter Clutch, Raising line pressure will not help.

If your losing TCC apply "Hot", You may have a leak TCC circuit, Hell a crack in the TCC Enable Solenoid can cause this.

I have also seen the TG TCC regulator valve installed backwards, This....From my experience....Causes NO TCC apply at all.

I don't like to blame converters for TCC apply issues, And/Or TC clutch failures. Yeah, TCI makes some junk, But it would suck to pull the unit...Install a expensive converter & still have issues.
That was my other fear as well. The shop that built the trans is pretty well known, and I've had a million people over the years (who are not associated with each other) recommend them.

I'll see if I can find a manual online somewhere with a hard parts diagram for when the trans comes out.
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Old 01-25-2016, 09:15 AM   #16
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...I'm not a big Trans-Go fan either, But their TCC Regulator Valve does work..
Yes, it does work. But, again, you do not need to buy any parts to convert a PWM to an on/off. You can fix an 1870 even with a badly worn bore...no parts, just some effort.
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Old 01-25-2016, 11:23 AM   #17
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That being said dynamic/cline, whats my best course of action?

I need a strong converter anyways, but is it worth tearing the trans down? Im not sure I want to do this myself
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Old 01-25-2016, 11:55 AM   #18
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I've seen many comments about Transgo stuff be inconsistent in quality, although their HD kit seems very popular. What would cause something like that i.e. a budget lathe, not doing QC checks enough?

Never really saw any complaints about Sonnax stuff so that's what I put in my 4l60e for a complete rebuild. One issue was a code 1870 so a local shop reamed my valve body for about $10 so I could install the valve that retains PWM. That's interesting that Circle D recommends keeping PWN, so I guess I lucked out since that was the TC I wound up getting.
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Old 01-25-2016, 01:43 PM   #19
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You could try replacing the TCC solenoid. It’s a long shot but may solve your problem. It could have a cracked snout or stops working once it gets hot. What does the guy that rebuilt the trans have to say about the TCC slippage? He rebuilt it you should ask him about it.
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Old 01-25-2016, 09:11 PM   #20
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That being said dynamic/cline, whats my best course of action?

I need a strong converter anyways, but is it worth tearing the trans down? Im not sure I want to do this myself
Loosing TCC Hot tells me it is a hydraulic leak.....Places/Components of interest...
TCC Regulator Valve
TCC Enable Solenoid
TCC PWM solenoid
TCC Apply Valve
Turbine/Input shaft O-ring
Damage separator plate gasket/s
Damaged Case to Pump Gasket
Worn Stator Support Bushing
Leaks between the Pump halves
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