Bollting Torque Converter up - problem
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But, the torque converter did not spin 360 degrees easily. It would get a stuck spot, sort of found up. I could get past it with moving it back and forth. But once bolted up, not as easily.
I'm about to decide I need to pull the engine and trans. (I don't have the necessary setup to just pull the tranny).
I find it interesting that I have a gap, yet a hard spinning torque converter.
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You should have poured some trans fluid into the converter before sliding it onto the transmission so that it doesn't start dry. About a pint is plenty. The converter should then spin freely on the transmission input shaft until it's bolted to the flex plate. If I understand what you're saying, the converter is not spinning freely when not yet bolted to the flex plate - it wants to stop or snag on something. Doesn't matter about the engine turning freely at this point although you should be able to turn the engine over with a wrench on the balancer bolt on the front of the engine. If the spark plugs are installed, the engine will be hard to turn as pistons come up on top dead center on the compression stroke - that's normal. Remove the plugs and the engine should spin without much effort through an entire revolution.
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So, the torque converter is bolted up. When I rotate, via the tooth at a time method, it does come to these stuck places, which with backing up, and going again, and some extra force, get past.
I'm about to decide I should pull the engine and trans just to be sure. That'll be a pain in the rear...but better than ruining something.
You should have poured some trans fluid into the converter before sliding it onto the transmission so that it doesn't start dry. About a pint is plenty. The converter should then spin freely on the transmission input shaft until it's bolted to the flex plate.
Makes sense. Given that I did not do that, do I need to pull the engine and start over to do that?
If I understand what you're saying, the converter is not spinning freely when not yet bolted to the flex plate - it wants to stop or snag on something.
That is correct. It will be very free for maybe 1/8 turn, then get stiff, then go a bit more, then maybe just stick (all this turning being done w/o tools...just fingers where I can get hold of it. )
Doesn't matter about the engine turning freely at this point although you should be able to turn the engine over with a wrench on the balancer bolt on the front of the engine.
You bet. Given that I'm working alone, I've been going in at the starter location and using a screw driver to move the engine rotation a tooth at a time
... so I can stop at the right place to put in the bolt.
If the spark plugs are installed, the engine will be hard to turn as pistons come up on top dead center on the compression stroke - that's normal. Remove the plugs and the engine should spin without much effort through an entire revolution.
True for sure. I have remedied that as per your suggestion
Makes sense. Given that I did not do that, do I need to pull the engine and start over to do that?
If I understand what you're saying, the converter is not spinning freely when not yet bolted to the flex plate - it wants to stop or snag on something.
That is correct. It will be very free for maybe 1/8 turn, then get stiff, then go a bit more, then maybe just stick (all this turning being done w/o tools...just fingers where I can get hold of it. )
Doesn't matter about the engine turning freely at this point although you should be able to turn the engine over with a wrench on the balancer bolt on the front of the engine.
You bet. Given that I'm working alone, I've been going in at the starter location and using a screw driver to move the engine rotation a tooth at a time
... so I can stop at the right place to put in the bolt.If the spark plugs are installed, the engine will be hard to turn as pistons come up on top dead center on the compression stroke - that's normal. Remove the plugs and the engine should spin without much effort through an entire revolution.
True for sure. I have remedied that as per your suggestion
I'm about to decide I should pull the engine and trans just to be sure. That'll be a pain in the rear...but better than ruining something.
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I would remove the converter bolts and again check if the converter spins easily; even 1 pound of force should easily turn it.
If it does not turn easily, I would suggest pulling the trans to figure out why.
Perhaps the converter just needs some ATF poured in as mentioned - half quart even.
Or it could be just the pump in the trans, which is a relatively easy replacement now.
If on the other hand you start the engine with a bad trans pump, it may grind up metal which spreads throughout the trans and converter, making a huge expensive mess.
When you think you have the converter fully installed, measure it!
Put a straightedge over the bell housing and measure the distance to the converter pads. It has to be at least 1"; the ideal 1-1/8" will give you the ideal 1/8" gap between the converter pads and the flexplate.
If it does not turn easily, I would suggest pulling the trans to figure out why.
Perhaps the converter just needs some ATF poured in as mentioned - half quart even.
Or it could be just the pump in the trans, which is a relatively easy replacement now.
If on the other hand you start the engine with a bad trans pump, it may grind up metal which spreads throughout the trans and converter, making a huge expensive mess.
When you think you have the converter fully installed, measure it!
Put a straightedge over the bell housing and measure the distance to the converter pads. It has to be at least 1"; the ideal 1-1/8" will give you the ideal 1/8" gap between the converter pads and the flexplate.
Launching!
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Look at the information in the link below, it might be helpful. I'm thinking that as distasteful at taking things back apart may be. It's probably the best way to avoid doing some serious damage to the trans.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...allations.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...allations.html
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Sounds like the best course of action. I have a strong feeling that the engine and tranny are coming out.
I'll post back as this project progresses. If pulling, it'll be a week or two, most likely. I'll probably get the bolts back out tomorrow.
I'll post back as this project progresses. If pulling, it'll be a week or two, most likely. I'll probably get the bolts back out tomorrow.
If the converter snout is registered into the crank, sometimes you get a little metal on metal tightness-I am guessing you are working with a 4L60E trans since it has an insp. hole, a little harder to see whats going on as opposed to an 80E-is it a quality converter, or a budget special, lol
Kind of hard to tell what your dealing with, I am guessing its the proper flexplate/converter setup-stock curved flexplate?
Kind of hard to tell what your dealing with, I am guessing its the proper flexplate/converter setup-stock curved flexplate?
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If the converter snout is registered into the crank, sometimes you get a little metal on metal tightness-
That makes sense, especially when I am trying to rotate the torque converter while not bolted to the flex plate. Thinking about it, I do believe I experienced that.
I am guessing you are working with a 4L60E trans since...
I should have listed my components. Sorry about that. It is a 4L65e
Kind of hard to tell what your dealing with, I am guessing its the proper flexplate/converter setup-stock curved flexplate?
I got this flex plate from Jegs. I got this torque converter from Jegs.
One thing I had thought when instlling (which may have been a misconception) was that if I can bolt up the engine to the transmission without having to 'force' it together that the torque converter must be seated correctly. Any thoughts on that?
That makes sense, especially when I am trying to rotate the torque converter while not bolted to the flex plate. Thinking about it, I do believe I experienced that.
I am guessing you are working with a 4L60E trans since...
I should have listed my components. Sorry about that. It is a 4L65e
Kind of hard to tell what your dealing with, I am guessing its the proper flexplate/converter setup-stock curved flexplate?
I got this flex plate from Jegs. I got this torque converter from Jegs.
One thing I had thought when instlling (which may have been a misconception) was that if I can bolt up the engine to the transmission without having to 'force' it together that the torque converter must be seated correctly. Any thoughts on that?
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If you have a gap between the converter and flexplate, then the converter is seated fully.
forcd_ind's idea that there might be friction between the converter's snout and the crank is valid. If you can split the trans from the engine by 1/4-1/2" you might be able to verify that the converter spins freely. You might temporarily need a few longer bolts to keep the engine and trans connected.
forcd_ind's idea that there might be friction between the converter's snout and the crank is valid. If you can split the trans from the engine by 1/4-1/2" you might be able to verify that the converter spins freely. You might temporarily need a few longer bolts to keep the engine and trans connected.
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Saga continues... Reponses in blue
If you have a gap between the converter and flexplate, then the converter is seated fully.
That makes sense to me, and is why I felt comfortable it was seated correctly. Now, the gap is small, maybe even less than 1/8", but not by much. I'd think I wouldn't have even been able to bolt it together if not seated correctly, or at least would have been a 'force it together' situation.
forcd_ind's idea that there might be friction between the converter's snout and the crank is valid. If you can split the trans from the engine by 1/4-1/2" you might be able to verify that the converter spins freely. You might temporarily need a few longer bolts to keep the engine and trans connected.
I've actually been considering splitting as you suggest. The engine is quite close to the firewall, not sure how difficult it will be, but I'll likely try that before pulling the engine.
The only thing that makes the issue a strong issue to me is that I experience the hard spot even whild cranking the engine while the flex plate and torque converter are in fact bolted together (again, doing so by screw drive through starter area, one tooth at a time). That would eliminate the issue of the torque converter dragging on the flex plate.
That makes sense to me, and is why I felt comfortable it was seated correctly. Now, the gap is small, maybe even less than 1/8", but not by much. I'd think I wouldn't have even been able to bolt it together if not seated correctly, or at least would have been a 'force it together' situation.
forcd_ind's idea that there might be friction between the converter's snout and the crank is valid. If you can split the trans from the engine by 1/4-1/2" you might be able to verify that the converter spins freely. You might temporarily need a few longer bolts to keep the engine and trans connected.
I've actually been considering splitting as you suggest. The engine is quite close to the firewall, not sure how difficult it will be, but I'll likely try that before pulling the engine.
The only thing that makes the issue a strong issue to me is that I experience the hard spot even whild cranking the engine while the flex plate and torque converter are in fact bolted together (again, doing so by screw drive through starter area, one tooth at a time). That would eliminate the issue of the torque converter dragging on the flex plate.
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Please do not rely on counting clicks.
For one thing it doesn't always click.
Unless you have an extra $2000+ you really want to spend, MEASURE that you have at least 1" from the converter pads to a straight edge across the bell housing.
Every trans builder screams for their customers to make the measurement and not rely on counting clicks. A ruined pump due to improper converter installation is the most common error, and of course the customer then blames the builder for a faulty transmission.
For one thing it doesn't always click.
Unless you have an extra $2000+ you really want to spend, MEASURE that you have at least 1" from the converter pads to a straight edge across the bell housing.
Every trans builder screams for their customers to make the measurement and not rely on counting clicks. A ruined pump due to improper converter installation is the most common error, and of course the customer then blames the builder for a faulty transmission.
Last edited by mrvedit; Feb 27, 2016 at 04:33 PM.
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Please do not rely on counting clicks.
For one thing it doesn't always click.
Unless you have an extra $2000+ you really want to spend, MEASURE that you have at least 1" from the converter pads to a straight edge across the bell housing.
Every trans builder screams for their customers to make the measurement and not rely on counting clicks. A ruined pump due to improper converter installation is the most common error, and of course the customer then blames the builder for a faulty transmission.
For one thing it doesn't always click.
Unless you have an extra $2000+ you really want to spend, MEASURE that you have at least 1" from the converter pads to a straight edge across the bell housing.
Every trans builder screams for their customers to make the measurement and not rely on counting clicks. A ruined pump due to improper converter installation is the most common error, and of course the customer then blames the builder for a faulty transmission.
Fti told me I need to be able to freely spin the converter once the trans is bolted to the engine and before I bolted it to the flexplate. I could barely spin it before I fixed the seal. After the seal was fixed and I got three clicks, I then could spin the converter with 1 finger.
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Folks, I appreciate all the input and guidance. I'll be pulling it soon, and will follow the recommendations.
Just so I know for sure, is the seal you speak of on the shaft of the torque converter, or in the transmission?
Just so I know for sure, is the seal you speak of on the shaft of the torque converter, or in the transmission?
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It's the transmission input shaft. This is what slides into your converter. Definitely put fluid in your converter.
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)(*&(*&%^^%$^&&
I have the tranny out. Pulled TC. Added fluid. Dropping back in. I get it to where the measurement from pad to a straight edge is just a hair short of 1 1/8".
The Torque Converter is locked. Will not spin.
This is so frustrating. Anyone ever have this?
It is a new transmission, although I've had it for a year and half.
I supposed I'll need to take it to a shop.
Any thoughts?
I have the tranny out. Pulled TC. Added fluid. Dropping back in. I get it to where the measurement from pad to a straight edge is just a hair short of 1 1/8".
The Torque Converter is locked. Will not spin.
This is so frustrating. Anyone ever have this?
It is a new transmission, although I've had it for a year and half.
I supposed I'll need to take it to a shop.
Any thoughts?
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First, a hair short of 1-1/8" is fine; anything over 1" indicates the converter is fully seated. Anything over 1" will be your gap between the flexplate and converter pads.
If your converter will not spin when fully seated, that indicates your pump is jammed and likely ruined.
As long as the engine was not started, the damage should be restricted to just the pump. I've bought good quality used pumps for $100; a rebuilt should be under $200 and barely an hour for a shop to swap it.
If your converter will not spin when fully seated, that indicates your pump is jammed and likely ruined.
As long as the engine was not started, the damage should be restricted to just the pump. I've bought good quality used pumps for $100; a rebuilt should be under $200 and barely an hour for a shop to swap it.
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Definitely pull the pump and check for damage/rust/stuck vanes/cracked rotor etc.
I have not pre filled a converter in over 20 years....It is a waste of time, The Converter will instantly charge as soon as the engine starts.
I have not pre filled a converter in over 20 years....It is a waste of time, The Converter will instantly charge as soon as the engine starts.