I had this maybe not so bright idea (although I've done it in the past w/no prob lem), of dropping the torque converter in the tranny, bolt to the engine, install.

Then from in the starter area, rotate the converter and fly wheel (forget what it's called...I know fly wheel is for standard trans) and bolt them up.

I'm finding that my torque converter will not rotate but an inch or two. I expected it to rotate easily. I have changed the gear to be out of park in case that had anything to do with it.

Any thoughts?

 

How far are they spaced apart? Converter may be wedged against the flexplate.

 

They are close together. But I'm sure it isn't wedged against flex plate.

I First rotated the flexplate up. The torque converter did not move. I then started to rotate the Torque converter but could not do it. So I Rotated the flexplate again until it lined up with a hole at the bottom, but I couldn't put a bolt in there. So I stuck the angle of an Allen wrench in and rotated it all up with the Allen wrench uptight. When I called the Allen drench out the Torque converter rotated back down.

I can move the torque converter by hand getting my fingers in there 2 inches up and down but that's it. I would think if it were stuck against the flexplate I wouldn't be a little move it at all , except with the flexplate when I turn it

Really strange.

 

Is this a new setup, was the converter set all the way into the trans, what was the distance bet. the FW and converter pads-should be around .120 with converter all the way into the trans
Are you using one of those adapters to register the FW
Lots of questions, lol

 

Replies in blue.

 

Was the torque converter spinning freely before bolting the trans to the engine? Might be a good idea to pull the trans, check everything and start over.

 

Did the torque converter positively "Click" or move back 3 times when you slid the converter onto the input shaft?

To me it sounds like the converter is not fully seated into the pump.

 

It's been put together for quite a while. I prograstinated on bolting it together. In fact, the car has transported down to a new address, as I moved.

Maybe if it was in good, it slid forward.

It'll be quite a pain to pull that tranny. Car not running, and working from just a home garage. I wonder if there is any chance at all that I can get it to seat back into the tranny if that's the problem.

 

you need a straight edge ruler on the bell-housing and something like a dial caliber to measure it the right way fro the torque converter pads. the 3 click rule doesn't apply anymore. Thats why someone said to make sure you have at least .120 space.

 

I am sure I did not 'force' the engine and tranny together. I'm sure I tested rotation of the torque converter when I put it on. But given I didn't bolt it to the flex plate right away (I know...at this point anyway, pretty stupid)...I'm guessing it has slipped out.

All is mounted in the car.

Any chance of trying to get it to seat correctly? Or am I destined to pull the engine and tranny?

 

If you can't rotate the converter then it's in a bind someplace. You don't want to damage the pump, so it looks like the best solution is to pull the trans and find out what the problem is. If you force something, you cause more problems and have to pull the trans anyway.

 

If you can get to all the bolts where the trans bolts to the engine, maybe back them out 1/4", loosen the trans mount, slide the trans back a little and see if the FW (flexplate) frees up-usually with the flexplate pushed all the way in the trans, there is around .120 clearance between the converter pads and where they would hit the flexplate, before you pull it forward to bolt it up
What kind of trans, 4L60E or 80E-sometimes the 80E uses an adapter for the cranl to converter snout distance, and the snout bottoms out in the adapter and causes problems
If getting the trans loose from the engine frees the converter up, try and spin it and see if it will push back in the trans to the last stop (seated)

 

It sounds like the torque convertor just worked itself up against the flexplate when you had it transported. If torque convertor and flexplate are the correct pieces, once the trans is bolted the engine there is no way the torque convertor can become disengaged from the pump. Use a screw driver or some kind of pry bar and see if you can work the torque convertor back into the trans. If you can get it to move back to where you have a little air gap between the torque convertor pads and flexplate I would say that you will be fine. As said earlier, the air gap should be around .120” with converter all the way into the trans.

 

Appreciate the input guys. It all makes sense.

I definitely will not be forcing anything.

I'll try the unbolt a bit and see if a small bit of separation allows me to rotate the torque converter and get it back in place. JFYI...right now, it is not tight against the flex plate (ie. not so tight it has friction, I can move it back and forth 2-3 inches). But there is no measurable space between the two.

All that being said, what I find interesting about this, is that even if it moves back, given it is not tight against the flex plate now, it would seem that once I bolt the two together, it would just pull it back up to the space it's at now.

Strange...

 

Just went out and used a screwdriver and worked the torque converter back and forth. After a few back and forth, it started to turn. I rotated it maybe 1/4 turn fine. So, it lined up with a hole, no spacing. But...even if it had space between the flex plate and the pad, once I bolt it, it would pull back down. So, is there supposed to be a washer there to space it? (I've never seen that to be the case).

So, I bolted it up. turned about another quarter of a turn, well, maybe less, and it s tuck again. I'm rotating it back down now, to pull the bolt. In fact, it stuck coming back down, and may not be able to get the bolt out. Probably have to rotate it back and forth a bit. It almost seems like something is down in there getting caught on it. Can't imagine what or how.

I think I'm destined to pull the engine.

 

The spacing is needed so that the torque converter doesn’t bottom out in the pump rotor due to heat expansion and crankshaft endplay.

You have something very odd going on. If you can remove all of the torque converter bolts from the flex plate and then see if you can rotate the engine at least one full revolution. If the engine turns you may be time ahead to just go ahead and pull the trans out and find what is keeping the torque converter from turning.

 

Well, here's some more info.

I just went out there, and in the bottom of the bell houseing part of the transmission is a round aluminum plate, I suspsect an inspection plate.

With that open, and reaching in there, and through the starter area, I can rotate the torque converter, but it has places it sort of catches. If I rock it back, and forth where I can get a small amount of inertia on it, I can get past that 'catch' point.

So, both the flex plate and torque converter can rotate separately. Of course, I have to use a screw driver and pry the flex plate around 1 tooth at a time. No way to turn that engine over by hand.

Another data point: all is dry. No trans fluid added yet; no engine oil added yet, other than what's left after draining, and changing oil pan.

Another thing, looking at the torque converter and flex plate through the inspection hole, I can see it has spacing. However I can pull it out to the flex plate and push it back to the point of having the spacing. So as I mentioned, if I bolt it, it will pull up tight against the flex plate.

I'm pretty strongly thinking, at this point, that it's fine, and that adding the 'catch' point to the stiffness of rotation of the flex plate (ie. making the engine turn over), it is just seeming to be stuck. I am suspecting that I just need to get one bolt in, and force it past the catch points, and get it bolted up. Once all fluids in, and using the starter to start, I think it'll be fine.

Does that make any sense at all?

 

Doh!!

I just thought of something else...when trying to rotate while it's all bolted together: my plugs are in the engine. I'm probably hitting a compression point making it tough to turn.

But, I do still have those 'sticking points'...like maybe the pump that is engaged by the torque converter is stiff in places. But with it all being new and dry, maybe that is contributing.

 

I don't recall if I mentioned it earlier, but I can see a bit of a gap between the flex plate and the bolt mount when I look direct up at it through that inspection hole in the bottom of the bell housing.

Pulled the plugs. I have 2 bolts in. But, I experienced a tight place again, but when using a larger screw driver, I did get past it.

I'm still nervous about it. I wouldn't think, though, that the tranny would bolt up and the torque converter have the space discussed, and not be in right. FYI...I can't particularly see the space when looking in on the bolt hole/mount from the starter area, but from underneath looking through the inspection hole, I can see it.

 

As mentioned, the gap between the converter pads and the flexplate should be around .120, which is 1/8" +- 1/16". This is relatively easy to check with drill bits.