4l60e Tuning w/3600 stall Yank
10-11-2016, 01:53 PM
#1
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4l60e Tuning w/3600 stall Yank 4l60e Tuning w/3600 stall Yank First to start off Vendors on this site are amazing for offering advise thanks to PerformaBuilt for never hesitating on sound words for us gearheads and thanks to FLT for the help and advise.
Well in my original post "FLT Stg4 built 4L60E failed?? Need advise vendors welcomed!!" The shop after 6 headed into 7th week has FINALLY gotten to the transmission!!! Well we contacted Finish Line Transmission who updated the transmission in April of 2015 to get the scoop on what has been done because we found an FLT STG 5 engraved in the transmission. Well FLT found the original invoice and it was upgraded to a Stage 5 so should be built to the nuts. But it looks like a Sprag was what stopped the transmission. But the shop doing the work is kind of at a loss as to why this would have failed. But after ordering new parts for the transmission, hopefully my Mark Williams Aluminum driveshaft and yokes, and Moser axles get in this week finger crossed I will need to address the transmission tune.
The car is tuned with HP Tuners Pro only owned the car like 4 days when it gave but was told by a local dyno shop that the line pressures were adjusted super high or as high as HP Tuners software could go. FLT said I need to adjust the transmission setting back to factory, but will this screw with the higher stall Yank converter (3600)?? Was told to especially set the transmission line pressures to factory as upping them is not good. I'm pretty nervous and want to actually enjoy the car for awhile even though fall is here. In all I haven't sat in my car in almost 9-10 weeks and the transmission shop is really tired of my calls and stop ins
but **** I'm sure most of anyone else would be the same way lol.
Thanks for any advice guys!!
Well in my original post "FLT Stg4 built 4L60E failed?? Need advise vendors welcomed!!" The shop after 6 headed into 7th week has FINALLY gotten to the transmission!!! Well we contacted Finish Line Transmission who updated the transmission in April of 2015 to get the scoop on what has been done because we found an FLT STG 5 engraved in the transmission. Well FLT found the original invoice and it was upgraded to a Stage 5 so should be built to the nuts. But it looks like a Sprag was what stopped the transmission. But the shop doing the work is kind of at a loss as to why this would have failed. But after ordering new parts for the transmission, hopefully my Mark Williams Aluminum driveshaft and yokes, and Moser axles get in this week finger crossed I will need to address the transmission tune.
The car is tuned with HP Tuners Pro only owned the car like 4 days when it gave but was told by a local dyno shop that the line pressures were adjusted super high or as high as HP Tuners software could go. FLT said I need to adjust the transmission setting back to factory, but will this screw with the higher stall Yank converter (3600)?? Was told to especially set the transmission line pressures to factory as upping them is not good. I'm pretty nervous and want to actually enjoy the car for awhile even though fall is here. In all I haven't sat in my car in almost 9-10 weeks and the transmission shop is really tired of my calls and stop ins
but **** I'm sure most of anyone else would be the same way lol.Thanks for any advice guys!!
10-11-2016, 02:54 PM
#2
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Sorry but they are full of it. I understand their point but also know that wasnt my builders advice and no 4l60es have failed with my current tune that I been running since about my join date here over there to the left.
10-11-2016, 03:27 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
From the looks of your pic of the Red SS looks like yours hooks and goes!!
Does your tune have all the Torque Management shut-off? Was told having a little bit on is good for longevity and line pressures don't ever need to be adjusted from factory due to the billet pump already sending enough pressure in the lines as needed. Also people are trying to tell me this car with a built 4l60e and 3600 yank with 3.73 12-bolt can't be driven very far. Can't see why 3.73 isn't a crazy gear for highway or 65-75 mph driving.
Does your tune have all the Torque Management shut-off? Was told having a little bit on is good for longevity and line pressures don't ever need to be adjusted from factory due to the billet pump already sending enough pressure in the lines as needed. Also people are trying to tell me this car with a built 4l60e and 3600 yank with 3.73 12-bolt can't be driven very far. Can't see why 3.73 isn't a crazy gear for highway or 65-75 mph driving.
10-11-2016, 03:32 PM
#5
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
Dumb question here but how do you guys post and able to compare tunes? I can post mine from when I first received my Camaro also. Seller gave me a HP laptop and all the HP tuner Pro stuff to go together.
10-11-2016, 03:35 PM
#6
TECH Junkie
From the looks of your pic of the Red SS looks like yours hooks and goes!!
Does your tune have all the Torque Management shut-off? Was told having a little bit on is good for longevity and line pressures don't ever need to be adjusted from factory due to the billet pump already sending enough pressure in the lines as needed. Also people are trying to tell me this car with a built 4l60e and 3600 yank with 3.73 12-bolt can't be driven very far. Can't see why 3.73 isn't a crazy gear for highway or 65-75 mph driving.
Does your tune have all the Torque Management shut-off? Was told having a little bit on is good for longevity and line pressures don't ever need to be adjusted from factory due to the billet pump already sending enough pressure in the lines as needed. Also people are trying to tell me this car with a built 4l60e and 3600 yank with 3.73 12-bolt can't be driven very far. Can't see why 3.73 isn't a crazy gear for highway or 65-75 mph driving.
At 65 mph you will see 2400 rpm's
At 75 mph you will see 2800 rpm's
There are two tracks that I go to, one is 1.5 hours away, the other is 2.5 hours away. I drive my car to both there and back at 80 mph (3000 rpm's) no complaints here.
10-11-2016, 03:54 PM
#7
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Do you know what line pressure your running at? FLT said he likes it to be between 210-230 but ideally at 220. Pretty sure all of the torque management was pulled on my from what local Dyno Shop said. **** I unfortunately never even got to get my up to 55 mph for the few days I owned. Well except for on the Dyno where it came apart on one pull.
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10-11-2016, 04:38 PM
#8
Mine has been running with increased line pressure for many many years. Same goes for my truck which has a stock trans other than the corvette servo.
That said, mine are not maxed and I know how my trans is built. Perhaps FLT does internal mods to increase line pressure in a way that the PCM doesn't need to try to do so as well.
That said, mine are not maxed and I know how my trans is built. Perhaps FLT does internal mods to increase line pressure in a way that the PCM doesn't need to try to do so as well.
10-11-2016, 05:52 PM
#9
Referring back to post#3,I've driven my Z with SS3600 AND 4.56 gears for 4 years and 4 trips from Cleveland Ohio to Florida. At freeway legal speeds 2500rpm@60mph,3000rpm@72mph. RPMs don't bother LS1s'. On I26 thru S.C.,hooked up with a fast moving cars and was in cruise control at 4000rpm for an hour. So agreeing with post#6,RPMs' won't hurt it.
I used a Hypertech handheld tuner(they are crap) to adjust for the gear change to correct the speedo and whatever it did(if anything) for the shift points was excellent. Did no other tuning. I'm currently back to OEM 3.23s' and the 4.56 complete rear,sitting in the garage,is crying to be put back in. Gotta couple holes to drill and tap in it(bottom of case for a 1/8npt drain and 1/4npt tap to convert the press in plastic vent fitting to a hose fitting. the 4.56 rear should be going back in soon.
I used a Hypertech handheld tuner(they are crap) to adjust for the gear change to correct the speedo and whatever it did(if anything) for the shift points was excellent. Did no other tuning. I'm currently back to OEM 3.23s' and the 4.56 complete rear,sitting in the garage,is crying to be put back in. Gotta couple holes to drill and tap in it(bottom of case for a 1/8npt drain and 1/4npt tap to convert the press in plastic vent fitting to a hose fitting. the 4.56 rear should be going back in soon.
10-12-2016, 08:27 AM
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Pm me your email address and I will shoot it over. I can give you a run down of the changes though, all TM is deleted, allowable max pressure is raised to 96 (max), all the shift pressures ramp up to full 96 by 300ft pounds or so, the force motor table is altered, and min/max pwm lockup is altered. Shift speeds and rpm are more about preference then anything. I run the same tune in my yukon as well. Love it, trans shifts great and no failures to date. I gave this tune to a guy starting off in the tuning world and he now uses a version of it in every 60 or 80 that he tunes. So yeah im happy with it.
10-12-2016, 02:38 PM
#12
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Thread Starter
Where do you have your converter locking up at?
Have been told around town or at the track to put transmission into D and not overdrive.
Something I read from Performabuilts Website:
http://performabuilt.com/Technical2008.html
For example, when roll racing, bringing on the low clutch by manually putting the transmission into first helps support the low and input sprags. Another example would be during burnouts, as again it will help to support the sprags by turning on the low clutch and the overrun clutch. Placing the transmission in D3 rather than the OD position is always a good idea when using nitrous or turbo/supercharger applications.
Have been told around town or at the track to put transmission into D and not overdrive.
Something I read from Performabuilts Website:
http://performabuilt.com/Technical2008.html
For example, when roll racing, bringing on the low clutch by manually putting the transmission into first helps support the low and input sprags. Another example would be during burnouts, as again it will help to support the sprags by turning on the low clutch and the overrun clutch. Placing the transmission in D3 rather than the OD position is always a good idea when using nitrous or turbo/supercharger applications.
10-12-2016, 03:49 PM
#15
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Pm me your email address and I will shoot it over. I can give you a run down of the changes though, all TM is deleted, allowable max pressure is raised to 96 (max), all the shift pressures ramp up to full 96 by 300ft pounds or so, the force motor table is altered, and min/max pwm lockup is altered. Shift speeds and rpm are more about preference then anything. I run the same tune in my yukon as well. Love it, trans shifts great and no failures to date. I gave this tune to a guy starting off in the tuning world and he now uses a version of it in every 60 or 80 that he tunes. So yeah im happy with it.
10-12-2016, 03:55 PM
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I do not drive the camaro much and trailer it to the track. My yukon has a built 4L60e and the same tune and it gets driven regularly. Shifts are firm and confidence inspiring but not harsh.
10-12-2016, 06:03 PM
#17
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Mine is mostly street driven, previously with an SS3600 and now a CircleD 3600; also with a 3.73 rear. Shifts are super fast, yet never seem harsh. Come to think of it, I even reduced shift pressure at low throttle to reduce "chirps" around town.
Anyone who tells you that "a built 4l60e and 3600 yank with 3.73 12-bolt can't be driven very far" knows nothing about these cars and parts. Glad you are on this forum to get away from such BS.
As to whether to race in [D3] or [OD], we have discussed this ad-nauseam.
IMO to summarize:
* On a stock 4L60E, race in [OD] because the 2-3 shift is likely to slip the 3/4 clutch because the overrun clutch is being enabled at the same time.
* On a performance 4L60E is is probably OK to race in either because line pressure is higher and there is better fluid flow to the 3/4 clutch.
* Ideally install the Sonnax HD 2-3 shift valve which "solves" this problem by keep the overrun clutches applied in all gear when in [D3]; it is then better to race in [D3] because it reduces the load on the input sprag.
Much of this confusion is because the ATSG manual has incorrect info about the Overrun Clutch in [D3]. (It shows it applied in 1st and 2nd gear, but it is NOT unless you install the Sonnax hd 2-3 valve.)
Last edited by mrvedit; 10-13-2016 at 10:51 AM. Reason: Typo
10-12-2016, 06:45 PM
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My builder recommends always racing in d3.....he said never race in d4/OD. So that's what I do. Never a clutch failure yet, and obviously I am not easy on it. And I believe that was exactly why, he wants the overrun clutch on for extra support. It does however slightly delay the 2/3 shift and will require a slight tune adjustment to compensate....meaning it needs to be commanded 1/200 rpms sooner to be completed at the desired rpm.
10-12-2016, 07:26 PM
#19
My trans is tuned similarly with TM disabled; however most everything else is close to stock. A properly performance built 4L60E should work just fine with the stock trans tuning and just TM disabled.
Mine is mostly street driven, previously with an SS3600 and now a CircleD 3600; also with a 3.73 rear. Shifts are super fast, yet never seem harsh. Come to think of it, I even reduced shift pressure at low throttle to reduce "chirps" around town.
Anyone who tells you that "a built 4l60e and 3600 yank with 3.73 12-bolt can't be driven very far" knows nothing about these cars and parts. Glad you are on this forum to get away from such BS.
As to whether to race in [D3] or [OD], we have discussed this ad-nauseam.
IMO to summarize:
* On a stock 4L60E, race in [OD] because the 2-3 shift is likely to slip the 3/4 clutch because the overrun clutch is being enabled at the same time.
* On a performance 4L60E is is probably OK to race in either because line pressure is higher and there is better fluid flow to the 3/4 clutch.
* Ideally install the Sonnax HD 2-3 shift valve which "solves" this problem by keep the overrun clutches applied in all gear when in [D3]; it is then better to race in [D3] because it reduces the load on the input sprag.
Much of this confusion is because the ATSG manual has incorrect info about the Overrun Clutch in [D3]. (It shows it applied in 1st and 2nd gear, but is is NOT unless you install the Sonnax hd 2-3 valve.)
Mine is mostly street driven, previously with an SS3600 and now a CircleD 3600; also with a 3.73 rear. Shifts are super fast, yet never seem harsh. Come to think of it, I even reduced shift pressure at low throttle to reduce "chirps" around town.
Anyone who tells you that "a built 4l60e and 3600 yank with 3.73 12-bolt can't be driven very far" knows nothing about these cars and parts. Glad you are on this forum to get away from such BS.
As to whether to race in [D3] or [OD], we have discussed this ad-nauseam.
IMO to summarize:
* On a stock 4L60E, race in [OD] because the 2-3 shift is likely to slip the 3/4 clutch because the overrun clutch is being enabled at the same time.
* On a performance 4L60E is is probably OK to race in either because line pressure is higher and there is better fluid flow to the 3/4 clutch.
* Ideally install the Sonnax HD 2-3 shift valve which "solves" this problem by keep the overrun clutches applied in all gear when in [D3]; it is then better to race in [D3] because it reduces the load on the input sprag.
Much of this confusion is because the ATSG manual has incorrect info about the Overrun Clutch in [D3]. (It shows it applied in 1st and 2nd gear, but is is NOT unless you install the Sonnax hd 2-3 valve.)
10-12-2016, 10:20 PM
#20
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Thread Starter
My trans is tuned similarly with TM disabled; however most everything else is close to stock. A properly performance built 4L60E should work just fine with the stock trans tuning and just TM disabled.
Mine is mostly street driven, previously with an SS3600 and now a CircleD 3600; also with a 3.73 rear. Shifts are super fast, yet never seem harsh. Come to think of it, I even reduced shift pressure at low throttle to reduce "chirps" around town.
Anyone who tells you that "a built 4l60e and 3600 yank with 3.73 12-bolt can't be driven very far" knows nothing about these cars and parts. Glad you are on this forum to get away from such BS.
As to whether to race in [D3] or [OD], we have discussed this ad-nauseam.
IMO to summarize:
* On a stock 4L60E, race in [OD] because the 2-3 shift is likely to slip the 3/4 clutch because the overrun clutch is being enabled at the same time.
* On a performance 4L60E is is probably OK to race in either because line pressure is higher and there is better fluid flow to the 3/4 clutch.
* Ideally install the Sonnax HD 2-3 shift valve which "solves" this problem by keep the overrun clutches applied in all gear when in [D3]; it is then better to race in [D3] because it reduces the load on the input sprag.
Much of this confusion is because the ATSG manual has incorrect info about the Overrun Clutch in [D3]. (It shows it applied in 1st and 2nd gear, but it is NOT unless you install the Sonnax hd 2-3 valve.)
Mine is mostly street driven, previously with an SS3600 and now a CircleD 3600; also with a 3.73 rear. Shifts are super fast, yet never seem harsh. Come to think of it, I even reduced shift pressure at low throttle to reduce "chirps" around town.
Anyone who tells you that "a built 4l60e and 3600 yank with 3.73 12-bolt can't be driven very far" knows nothing about these cars and parts. Glad you are on this forum to get away from such BS.
As to whether to race in [D3] or [OD], we have discussed this ad-nauseam.
IMO to summarize:
* On a stock 4L60E, race in [OD] because the 2-3 shift is likely to slip the 3/4 clutch because the overrun clutch is being enabled at the same time.
* On a performance 4L60E is is probably OK to race in either because line pressure is higher and there is better fluid flow to the 3/4 clutch.
* Ideally install the Sonnax HD 2-3 shift valve which "solves" this problem by keep the overrun clutches applied in all gear when in [D3]; it is then better to race in [D3] because it reduces the load on the input sprag.
Much of this confusion is because the ATSG manual has incorrect info about the Overrun Clutch in [D3]. (It shows it applied in 1st and 2nd gear, but it is NOT unless you install the Sonnax hd 2-3 valve.)
I'm trying to definitely sort through internet BS and rely on those with experience and knowledge which is good on LS1Tech. The 4l60e in my Camaro is a Finish Line Transmission Stage 5 was freshened up in April 2015 from what they told me, so it does have there hd 2-3 valve modified. Kinda at odds on what caused a sprag to fail. Chuck from FLT said it was hard to say why or what caused it but recommended setting line pressures back to stock due to the internal upgrades already upping pressure.
I'm dying waiting for the car to get done I haven't sat in the car in about 10 weeks now. I will try to figure out how to post my tune from when I bought the car.
Last edited by mrvedit; 10-13-2016 at 10:51 AM. Reason: Typo