How to make a stock 4L60E survive high hp/track
11-07-2017, 07:36 AM
#21
My comment was directed at that Marc guy. Yes, your car could be a bit faster.... But you were able to have fun and drive it home when finished. The workaround/hack you are using is... at least to me a good idea, and appears to be working.
11-07-2017, 10:58 AM
#23
We have several locals running 60e, the turbo guys making 750 + rwhp. I keep the shifts at 5900 - 6000. 10k miles of abuse on a friends, with a on3 78mm and stock rearend.
I don't pull timing on shifts, he has the usual budget oriented upgrades he did himself. Keeping the RPM's down help keep the SBE happy as well.
For reference it's a gen 4 SBE 6.0, Btr Stage 2 Turbo Cam, Ls6 Intake, on3 78mm on 16 psi, 12.5* timing at peak hp, 9.5 - 10* at peak torque.
I don't pull timing on shifts, he has the usual budget oriented upgrades he did himself. Keeping the RPM's down help keep the SBE happy as well.
For reference it's a gen 4 SBE 6.0, Btr Stage 2 Turbo Cam, Ls6 Intake, on3 78mm on 16 psi, 12.5* timing at peak hp, 9.5 - 10* at peak torque.
11-08-2017, 05:34 AM
#24
I started doing something similar about 10 weeks ago, after having to pull my 60e out 2x in one month.
Long story, but it started out as a built trans, had about 17k miles on it and lasted about 17 months.
Anywho,
After some serious reading, I came across a thread on here about a similar situation, where someone kept breaking the sprag.
2 sprags later, I finally submitted to the suggestions given in the thread and it's been fine since.
1. Shift torque reduction is stock
2. TCC PWM apply is 100 max and stock min settings
3. Pressures settings are stock
4. Loose converter
5. Converter unlocks at 50% throttle and/or 100mph.
6. Separator plate was drilled based on some values from Dana in another thread.
It's still fun to drive, I've beat on it some and it's been fine. So yes, I think there is plenty of truth in this thread.
Is it as fast as it could be? Probably not but it's reliable and that's the point of this thread.
Long story, but it started out as a built trans, had about 17k miles on it and lasted about 17 months.
Anywho,
After some serious reading, I came across a thread on here about a similar situation, where someone kept breaking the sprag.
2 sprags later, I finally submitted to the suggestions given in the thread and it's been fine since.
1. Shift torque reduction is stock
2. TCC PWM apply is 100 max and stock min settings
3. Pressures settings are stock
4. Loose converter
5. Converter unlocks at 50% throttle and/or 100mph.
6. Separator plate was drilled based on some values from Dana in another thread.
It's still fun to drive, I've beat on it some and it's been fine. So yes, I think there is plenty of truth in this thread.
Is it as fast as it could be? Probably not but it's reliable and that's the point of this thread.
11-08-2017, 08:03 AM
#26
11-08-2017, 08:29 PM
#28
Moderator
While I understand the thread's goal to discuss tuning parameters to improve longevity and not install a $4000+ built trans, there are some relatively simple "hardware" mods that are likely to increase the longevity in high HP applications:
1. At least install a larger boost valve, such as the Sonnax 4L60E-LB1 (or LB2 for later ISS units). This increases the max line pressure and increases line pressure at all times by a bit. Cost is about $25 and you only need to drop the pan and less than 5 minutes with snap ring pliers.
2. OR, install a complete shift kit, either the Transgo HD2 or the Sonnax Performance Pak.
3. Install the Sonnax HD 2-3 shift valve. This does require dropping the entire valve body and is therefore best done when installing a shift kit. This reduces the load on the forward spam when racing in [D3].
4. Install a larger trans cooler.
1. At least install a larger boost valve, such as the Sonnax 4L60E-LB1 (or LB2 for later ISS units). This increases the max line pressure and increases line pressure at all times by a bit. Cost is about $25 and you only need to drop the pan and less than 5 minutes with snap ring pliers.
2. OR, install a complete shift kit, either the Transgo HD2 or the Sonnax Performance Pak.
3. Install the Sonnax HD 2-3 shift valve. This does require dropping the entire valve body and is therefore best done when installing a shift kit. This reduces the load on the forward spam when racing in [D3].
4. Install a larger trans cooler.
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Misfits Mike (08-25-2021)
11-08-2017, 08:42 PM
#30
Moderator
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...lly-worth.html
11-09-2017, 09:55 PM
#32
If you have a efficient converter, your shift extension will keep the shift rpm from dropping that much. Where the major drop in rpm/high torque shock really comes into play, is while doing a burnout and letting the tires grab before letting off the throttle.
11-12-2017, 04:06 PM
#33
Over the last three to four years, I have had three customers tell me that leaving in "torque management" only affected ET & MPH on the average by a tenth and one mile an hour loss. I do not remember how much if any of the torque management was eliminated. These were low eleven to mid twelve vehicles. The main reason to stay at 6,000 rpm and below on the shift points with the factory transmission, is that the front pump is not setup to go over 6,000 rpm and keep the line pressure at maximum pressure. The priming spring in the pump needs to be changed to a high rpm setup to keep the pressure up. One of these customers has over 1,300 runs on his transmission and still going ok the last I heard. Torque management, when set up correctly to match what you have can greatly extend transmission life. You then can find other ways to add more horsepower to overcome the slight loss of TM here if you want. The less torque you have during the shift, and less wear and or damage will occur to the parts and clutches/band. The lighter the torque converter will have a similar effect, less wear on parts, clutches and band, and rear end too.
11-12-2017, 04:31 PM
#34
There is a "wider sprag" from Borg Warner. Part Number 50120BW. It has 12.7% wider sprag elements. Make sure you drill 4 - 6 .125" (1/8") holes in the brass retainer that makes contact with the overrun hub for better oiling. The drilling of the front side is not necessary. The inner race where the sprag rides must be perfect (flat) and have a "mirror finish". Use 600 - 1,000 - 1,500 grit sandpaper or even smoother to achieve this. The outer race must be roughened up with 36 - 50 grit sandpaper in the direction of rotation. This will ensure long life. This sprag has solved some of the problems seen here with the normal (still very good sprag) Borg Warner 29 element sprag. With aggressive driving and good horsepower, you should consider using this. Transtar & WIT carries these.
11-12-2017, 05:04 PM
#35
Thanks PBA, really good input. Im surprised more of this type of info, including the rpm limit and torque management, isn't more widely known or shared....should sticky this.
Just an update for me, I pulled the pan to see how the fluid looked. Was really clean, better than when I first got the car, so that makes me happy that this line of thinking has merit and is working.
Just an update for me, I pulled the pan to see how the fluid looked. Was really clean, better than when I first got the car, so that makes me happy that this line of thinking has merit and is working.
Last edited by ddnspider; 11-21-2017 at 01:34 PM.
11-13-2017, 08:08 PM
#36
While I understand the thread's goal to discuss tuning parameters to improve longevity and not install a $4000+ built trans, there are some relatively simple "hardware" mods that are likely to increase the longevity in high HP applications:
1. At least install a larger boost valve, such as the Sonnax 4L60E-LB1 (or LB2 for later ISS units). This increases the max line pressure and increases line pressure at all times by a bit. Cost is about $25 and you only need to drop the pan and less than 5 minutes with snap ring pliers.
2. OR, install a complete shift kit, either the Transgo HD2 or the Sonnax Performance Pak.
3. Install the Sonnax HD 2-3 shift valve. This does require dropping the entire valve body and is therefore best done when installing a shift kit. This reduces the load on the forward spam when racing in [D3].
4. Install a larger trans cooler.
1. At least install a larger boost valve, such as the Sonnax 4L60E-LB1 (or LB2 for later ISS units). This increases the max line pressure and increases line pressure at all times by a bit. Cost is about $25 and you only need to drop the pan and less than 5 minutes with snap ring pliers.
2. OR, install a complete shift kit, either the Transgo HD2 or the Sonnax Performance Pak.
3. Install the Sonnax HD 2-3 shift valve. This does require dropping the entire valve body and is therefore best done when installing a shift kit. This reduces the load on the forward spam when racing in [D3].
4. Install a larger trans cooler.
6. Never make a hit with trans temsp over 190 degrees.
11-13-2017, 08:24 PM
#38
11-14-2017, 06:11 AM
#39
I've heard of ground clearance concerns with the deep pan, any truth to that?
On the cooler stuff, I was always back and forth about keeping the stock cooler inline with an aftermarket one, but after logging temps in FL summer, it does seem to work pretty well and since its a longer path before returning to the transmissions, it must give it more time to cool.
On the cooler stuff, I was always back and forth about keeping the stock cooler inline with an aftermarket one, but after logging temps in FL summer, it does seem to work pretty well and since its a longer path before returning to the transmissions, it must give it more time to cool.
11-15-2017, 07:28 PM
#40
With the larger B&M pan, extra 3 quarts, it keeps the temps down quite a bit especially when at the track. It is cast aluminum and pretty stout. My car radiator is bypassed as it is a track only car. Ground clearance is less but saves the trans from being ruined. I had a stock trans in my car for 5-6 years back when it was running mid 11's with only a trans-go shift kit. Lots of people with big converters on the street make 2 or 3 hits in a row without monitoring temps, and wonder why there trans is shot.