How to make a stock 4L60E survive high hp/track
11-17-2017, 09:48 AM
#41
There is a bunch of great info in here thanks for your your knowledge. Like I always tell everyone, including my customers, its all in the TUNE!
I tune a lot of 4l60/65/70/80e trans as well as 6l80e trans and try to leave as much torque management into the shift as possible that the customer will allow me to. I find that shifting it fast, and pulling timing momentarily can result in great performance with significantly increased reliability as opposed to no torque management and high shift pressure.
True if your going all out, then you build the trans, but if budget, time or the desire to replace the trans does not exist, then tuning will achieve your goals in most applications...until you go too far.
I am about to buy and turbo a 2009 Silverado with a 65e and use it as the daily driver. My goal is to make it last a very long time. Its the racecar hauler and daily, so I am not overly concerned with maximum acceleration. Again its dependent on the application. This thread is great for those with factory or lightly modified 60/65/70 trans.
I tune a lot of 4l60/65/70/80e trans as well as 6l80e trans and try to leave as much torque management into the shift as possible that the customer will allow me to. I find that shifting it fast, and pulling timing momentarily can result in great performance with significantly increased reliability as opposed to no torque management and high shift pressure.
True if your going all out, then you build the trans, but if budget, time or the desire to replace the trans does not exist, then tuning will achieve your goals in most applications...until you go too far.
I am about to buy and turbo a 2009 Silverado with a 65e and use it as the daily driver. My goal is to make it last a very long time. Its the racecar hauler and daily, so I am not overly concerned with maximum acceleration. Again its dependent on the application. This thread is great for those with factory or lightly modified 60/65/70 trans.
11-17-2017, 12:03 PM
#42
There is a bunch of great info in here thanks for your your knowledge. Like I always tell everyone, including my customers, its all in the TUNE!
I tune a lot of 4l60/65/70/80e trans as well as 6l80e trans and try to leave as much torque management into the shift as possible that the customer will allow me to. I find that shifting it fast, and pulling timing momentarily can result in great performance with significantly increased reliability as opposed to no torque management and high shift pressure.
True if your going all out, then you build the trans, but if budget, time or the desire to replace the trans does not exist, then tuning will achieve your goals in most applications...until you go too far.
I am about to buy and turbo a 2009 Silverado with a 65e and use it as the daily driver. My goal is to make it last a very long time. Its the racecar hauler and daily, so I am not overly concerned with maximum acceleration. Again its dependent on the application. This thread is great for those with factory or lightly modified 60/65/70 trans.
I tune a lot of 4l60/65/70/80e trans as well as 6l80e trans and try to leave as much torque management into the shift as possible that the customer will allow me to. I find that shifting it fast, and pulling timing momentarily can result in great performance with significantly increased reliability as opposed to no torque management and high shift pressure.
True if your going all out, then you build the trans, but if budget, time or the desire to replace the trans does not exist, then tuning will achieve your goals in most applications...until you go too far.
I am about to buy and turbo a 2009 Silverado with a 65e and use it as the daily driver. My goal is to make it last a very long time. Its the racecar hauler and daily, so I am not overly concerned with maximum acceleration. Again its dependent on the application. This thread is great for those with factory or lightly modified 60/65/70 trans.
PS....You need to hit me up when you tune LS6427's TA, that thing is gonna be nasty.
11-18-2017, 12:52 AM
#43
Its nice seeing good info passed around on the 4l60e's without everyone being so hateful.
Torque Management is a must. Those that dont use it to their advantage must like playing with Fire. Dana from PBA gave me this advice years ago. He doesnt know how to do it or what but tells you it is the key to survival. I learned by trial and error and a few transmissions later.
I tailor mine a bit differently, I zero it out at the lower tables and taper it in to WOT. I start by cutting the tables in half, tweaking it here and there. The timing pulled depends on power and what power adders you have IMO. I cant give you exact numbers, I generally road test them all and tweak them accordingly.
You want a quick but not overly firm shift. This is done internally typically. DONT MESS WITH THE PCM pressures. Converter Size exacerbates this greatly. A stock converter (or large diameter) and a firm shift will be the end of the trans also.
You can take the shift timing and taper it down to the minimum at WOT. Cut the time by 1/3 at the lower torque area, and it will shift smooth as butter under normal driving. I have my own tricks here also. I like it to drive like a factory stock vehicle.
When you are raising the power levels, and even with a built trans, dont drive it like a rental car. Avoid double gear downshifts, or spraying the nitrous when you hit WOT and its not in the gear you want to be in. If you are starting from a dig, put it in D3.(especially if you have a HD 2-3 shift valve) Roll racing, pull it manually into the gear you're going to give it the "hit" in. Dont brake boost it in a higher gear then then pull it down when you give it the hit. Those are recipes for disaster.
DONT lock the converter at anything over 80 percent throttle. Dont buy triple disc converters for a 4l60e.
The trans will hold up to a ridiculous power level if you drive it smart. Even with a fully built trans, you still need to drive it smart.
IMO RPM limits mean nothing unless you have a firm shift and a heavy converter (large diameter) = BANG! broken hard parts.
Lets say you have a stock trans. Buy a quality converter that is sized properly. Buy a .500 boost valve, a filter kit, and a vette servo. The boost valve and servo are 20bucks for generic, a bit more for better. Put all of these in, ADJUST THE BAND CLEARANCE when installing the servo. Shoot for 1/8 inch, 1/16 at minimum. Weld onto the pin, grind and test til you get it right. It will be well worth the effort. Change some shift timing, fine tune the torque management and you would be surprised how long it will last if you drive it smart.
High power with weight kill the 4l60e regardless. Its not if, its when it will grenade.
Torque Management is a must. Those that dont use it to their advantage must like playing with Fire. Dana from PBA gave me this advice years ago. He doesnt know how to do it or what but tells you it is the key to survival. I learned by trial and error and a few transmissions later.
I tailor mine a bit differently, I zero it out at the lower tables and taper it in to WOT. I start by cutting the tables in half, tweaking it here and there. The timing pulled depends on power and what power adders you have IMO. I cant give you exact numbers, I generally road test them all and tweak them accordingly.
You want a quick but not overly firm shift. This is done internally typically. DONT MESS WITH THE PCM pressures. Converter Size exacerbates this greatly. A stock converter (or large diameter) and a firm shift will be the end of the trans also.
You can take the shift timing and taper it down to the minimum at WOT. Cut the time by 1/3 at the lower torque area, and it will shift smooth as butter under normal driving. I have my own tricks here also. I like it to drive like a factory stock vehicle.
When you are raising the power levels, and even with a built trans, dont drive it like a rental car. Avoid double gear downshifts, or spraying the nitrous when you hit WOT and its not in the gear you want to be in. If you are starting from a dig, put it in D3.(especially if you have a HD 2-3 shift valve) Roll racing, pull it manually into the gear you're going to give it the "hit" in. Dont brake boost it in a higher gear then then pull it down when you give it the hit. Those are recipes for disaster.
DONT lock the converter at anything over 80 percent throttle. Dont buy triple disc converters for a 4l60e.
The trans will hold up to a ridiculous power level if you drive it smart. Even with a fully built trans, you still need to drive it smart.
IMO RPM limits mean nothing unless you have a firm shift and a heavy converter (large diameter) = BANG! broken hard parts.
Lets say you have a stock trans. Buy a quality converter that is sized properly. Buy a .500 boost valve, a filter kit, and a vette servo. The boost valve and servo are 20bucks for generic, a bit more for better. Put all of these in, ADJUST THE BAND CLEARANCE when installing the servo. Shoot for 1/8 inch, 1/16 at minimum. Weld onto the pin, grind and test til you get it right. It will be well worth the effort. Change some shift timing, fine tune the torque management and you would be surprised how long it will last if you drive it smart.
High power with weight kill the 4l60e regardless. Its not if, its when it will grenade.
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blsnelling (01-05-2021)
11-18-2017, 05:17 AM
#44
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I wouldn't say it's hateful but there is a lot of post on 60e issues.
Most of the time it's user error.
No TM and having the **** beat out of it and then "WTF happened"? LOL!
I have 3 in my driveway rt now. The lowest milage one is my 2wd astro van with 136000mi. 04 4x4 Sub, 150000 and my sons 03 4x4 S10 168000mi.
I will say NOW they all have something a little funky going on but still work well.
Hell the sububans towed my Nova countless times and countless time with all the dirtbikes/quad trips IN OVERDRIVE! Again I don't beat them and aren't "tuned" either and they are still going.
Most of the time it's user error.
No TM and having the **** beat out of it and then "WTF happened"? LOL!
I have 3 in my driveway rt now. The lowest milage one is my 2wd astro van with 136000mi. 04 4x4 Sub, 150000 and my sons 03 4x4 S10 168000mi.
I will say NOW they all have something a little funky going on but still work well.
Hell the sububans towed my Nova countless times and countless time with all the dirtbikes/quad trips IN OVERDRIVE! Again I don't beat them and aren't "tuned" either and they are still going.
12-01-2017, 07:41 AM
#53
TECH Apprentice
you know, when i go from 12° to 16° @ 16 psi (max), nothig happens, at least nothing i can feel or measure with a g-meter. i had over 10° difference between tunes in the midrange without noticeable effect.
Last edited by Dian; 12-01-2017 at 01:20 PM.
12-01-2017, 08:10 AM
#54
Sounds like either you're under-timed, you commanded timing isnt your actual timing due to cam timing being off, or your butt dyno isn't calibrated very well. Plenty of boosted examples where each degree of timing is worth anywhere from 15-30whp. I'm pulling 6 degrees for ~.3 seconds right when the car is changing gears.
01-04-2018, 10:27 PM
#55
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Made some changes in my tune tonight. I haven’t messed with the spark retard vs torque reduction as of yet. I’ve also adjusted TCC release tps vs speed. Read alot about torque converter clutch being locked during wot pulls causing failures. Running a D1 with 8psi so hopefully keep the trans alive. Thanks for all the information.
01-05-2018, 04:45 AM
#56
Made some changes in my tune tonight. I haven’t messed with the spark retard vs torque reduction as of yet. I’ve also adjusted TCC release tps vs speed. Read alot about torque converter clutch being locked during wot pulls causing failures. Running a D1 with 8psi so hopefully keep the trans alive. Thanks for all the information.
03-09-2018, 04:53 PM
#59
I ran a Transgo,cooler and a truck pan for 5 years in the 11 second zone(Cam bolt ons and converter on drag radials). No problems. I do not know if the FBI rebuilt my trans or not when they owned it. I had the trans built for the heads install just in case. No problems with either. Shift points were 6500ish till recently.
03-09-2018, 05:17 PM
#60
I ran a Transgo,cooler and a truck pan for 5 years in the 11 second zone(Cam bolt ons and converter on drag radials). No problems. I do not know if the FBI rebuilt my trans or not when they owned it. I had the trans built for the heads install just in case. No problems with either. Shift points were 6500ish till recently.