Should I get my shift kit installed?
Thread Starter
11 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2017
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From: Kentucky
Should I get my shift kit installed? I have a Trans Go shift kit laying around that I was going to install in my 98 bird, but never got around to doing it. I have since then, gotten a mail-order tune from Frost, and he definitely played with the shift firmness cause if shifts well. Is there any reason to install the shift kit now? I already have it just gathering dust in a box, is there any benefit to be seen installing the shift kit? Longevity? Quicker shifts?
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,615
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From: Iowa
Increased pressure, better TCC valve, drilled sep plate, 1-2 shift valve (i'm assuming this is the HD2 kit), servo springs, etc
Yes...its good to use.
Tuning the trans to shift the way you want is a shitty way to do it imo. Sure, cranking up shift pressure adders will give you the feel you want...but all too often I've seen pressures cranked up, force motor tables goof'd with, and it causes just as much harm as good
Yes...its good to use.
Tuning the trans to shift the way you want is a shitty way to do it imo. Sure, cranking up shift pressure adders will give you the feel you want...but all too often I've seen pressures cranked up, force motor tables goof'd with, and it causes just as much harm as good
TECH Junkie
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,050
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From: Poplarville, MS
I would not install the shift kit if you are happy with the way the trans is operating. If Frost turned up the line pressure with the tune and then you install the boost valve from the shift kit, there is a good likely hood that the line pressure with be very high and could cause damage to your trans. If you want to install the shift kit you will need to hook up a pressure gauge to the trans first to verify line pressure before in stalling the shift kit boost valve.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,615
Likes: 1,327
From: Iowa
You can crank the line pressure up in the tune all you want and you'll be mechanically limited. It's the midrange line pressure that really causes the damage.
It's a mixed bag...the shift kit is the right way to do it...so you could install shift kit and re-tune
but on the other hand if it's working...don't fix what's not broken. If it's holding the power and shifting fine then leaving it might be fine.
It's a mixed bag...the shift kit is the right way to do it...so you could install shift kit and re-tune
but on the other hand if it's working...don't fix what's not broken. If it's holding the power and shifting fine then leaving it might be fine.
TECH Junkie
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,050
Likes: 716
From: Poplarville, MS
I agree. Was trying to say just don't mix the two. If a trans has a aftermarket higher pressure boost valve don't jack with the pressure in the tune. Also it is good idea to tell your tuner what has been done to your trans before it is tuned..
Get the trans pressure put back to stock. Find a trans shop that is very familiar with TransGo kits and likes them.
Have it installed.
Or leave it the way it is now.
The problem is, how many miles on it?
It's 20 years old. It's not unheard of to have the trans just give out at that age and 20 years of daily driving. BUT if a shift kit is put in, then thats the problem.
It could have 500k on it but once a shift kit is put in, thats the cause of failure.
Also you're not going to have them pull it out and install the clutch return springs that come in the HD2 kit.
Have it installed.
Or leave it the way it is now.
The problem is, how many miles on it?
It's 20 years old. It's not unheard of to have the trans just give out at that age and 20 years of daily driving. BUT if a shift kit is put in, then thats the problem.
It could have 500k on it but once a shift kit is put in, thats the cause of failure.
Also you're not going to have them pull it out and install the clutch return springs that come in the HD2 kit.
Thread Starter
11 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 178
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From: Kentucky
It has 111k miles as of now, I drive it maybe 30 miles a day. Im kind of stuck in a area where there really isn't any performance shops and the only guy I know of looks kind of sketchy lol. I'll probably leave it alone for now and just save for a decent transmission.
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TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,615
Likes: 1,327
From: Iowa
Get the trans pressure put back to stock. Find a trans shop that is very familiar with TransGo kits and likes them.
Have it installed.
Or leave it the way it is now.
The problem is, how many miles on it?
It's 20 years old. It's not unheard of to have the trans just give out at that age and 20 years of daily driving. BUT if a shift kit is put in, then thats the problem.
It could have 500k on it but once a shift kit is put in, thats the cause of failure.
Also you're not going to have them pull it out and install the clutch return springs that come in the HD2 kit.
Have it installed.
Or leave it the way it is now.
The problem is, how many miles on it?
It's 20 years old. It's not unheard of to have the trans just give out at that age and 20 years of daily driving. BUT if a shift kit is put in, then thats the problem.
It could have 500k on it but once a shift kit is put in, thats the cause of failure.
Also you're not going to have them pull it out and install the clutch return springs that come in the HD2 kit.
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Verdad Gallardo I have an HD2 kit without the springs in my s10 and rev it to 6500 a lot. Recently noticed my fluid looks burnt. It operates great though. I'm using Castrol TransMax and it looks dark and smells weird to begin with.
And I set it up with the 3-4 at .020 clearance.
I've always wondered if the springs did anything. It seems they delay the low speed shifts.
Just interested in what you think of these things.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
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From: Iowa
I use the helper springs in the 3/4 and stock springs for the lower cage. clearance at .0025-.0035 per friction. Borg High energy or raybestos GPZ are the only frictions for that clutch.
I've seen the springs all "lay over" to one side and ruin things. It has happened once in a unit i've built and twice in units i've repaired that came from different builders. My solution has become to alternate the tapered end of the springs. One up...one down...one up...one down...and so on...But I still am not a huge fan of them.
The whole point of them is just like the return springs in any other clutch...to help resist centrifugal apply. I've found that despite my best efforts in sealing off any leak possible in the 3/4 clutch circuit...it's just not ever perfect. So I don't see any huge issues with centrifugal apply...The helper springs keep the clutches from dragging enough to keep me happy.
I've seen the springs all "lay over" to one side and ruin things. It has happened once in a unit i've built and twice in units i've repaired that came from different builders. My solution has become to alternate the tapered end of the springs. One up...one down...one up...one down...and so on...But I still am not a huge fan of them.
The whole point of them is just like the return springs in any other clutch...to help resist centrifugal apply. I've found that despite my best efforts in sealing off any leak possible in the 3/4 clutch circuit...it's just not ever perfect. So I don't see any huge issues with centrifugal apply...The helper springs keep the clutches from dragging enough to keep me happy.
TECH Junkie
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,050
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From: Poplarville, MS
I have also seen units with those springs laid over. I still use them though. That is a good idea to alternate the tapered end of the springs. I will try that on my next build.
There is much that can be done in the tune to help the 4L60E live. If you have access to HPT or EFI Live you can help the trans that way. And as far as shift pressure, you can adjust them in the tune or with the shift kit, but not both.
TECH Resident
Joined: May 2006
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I have been using the 7-CS TransGo spring kit in everything I have built since 1994 without any problems. When you are installing the springs, watch for the cut at the end of the spring. Install one spring with the cut upward, and the next spring with the cut downward, and repeat this all the way around. This will have half of the springs with their bias one way and the other half of the springs with their bias the other way. This will cause the spring pack to sit straight up without it ever leaning over. Remember these are not valve springs with their top and bottom flattened, so as to not create any bias. As long as the transmission is still shifting ok, adding the TransGo Shift can give it extra life. If you have raised the shift firmness tables, this will have to be set back to stock (zero) to have the Shift kit to work correctly. The .500" boost valve raises line pressure at WOT to handle the extra torque and horsepower. Increasing the shift firmness at part throttle (with the shift firmness tables) only makes the part throttle shifts firmer and does nothing for WOT shifts.
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Not gonna get into a pissing match but in my experience, and we know 60Es aren't meant to hold a ton of power, but from what I've seen the tunes GM puts in these PCMs are weak AF. The reason these transmissions don't last longer is because they are tuned for grandma wanting soft seemless shifting. I would probably agree that a shift kit with internal parts is the right way to fix this. However, when i had one, no trans shop would touch it without doing a rebuild. So this can get a little out of hand money wise. As someone who has tuned a ton of 4l60Es, I can tell you if you are knowledgeable, you can absolutely bandaid that crap tune GM gives. Its not difficult, gives positive results, and gives the trans a chance to hold some decent power. To the comment if you install it the line pressures need to go back to stock I definitely agree with, too harsh of shifting puts strain on parts and will break stuff for no reason.
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
From what I've seen the tunes GM puts in these PCMs are weak AF. The reason these transmissions don't last longer is because they are tuned for grandma wanting soft seamless shifting. I would probably agree that a shift kit with internal parts is the right way to fix this. However, as someone who has tuned a ton of 4l60Es, I can tell you if you are knowledgeable, you can absolutely bandaid that crap tune GM gives. Its not difficult, gives positive results, and gives the trans a chance to hold some decent power. To the comment if you install it the line pressures need to go back to stock I definitely agree with, too harsh of shifting puts strain on parts and will break stuff for no reason.
Last edited by RevGTO; Nov 5, 2018 at 11:24 PM.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,615
Likes: 1,327
From: Iowa
My problem with the tune is that it's so easy to get the light and medium throttle shift feel people have come to associate with a shift kit...but the tune just can't deliver the WOT shift characteristics like a shift kit truly can.
The trans has a mechanical barrier that the tune just can't overcome. That's why I personally prefer a properly installed shift kit (about 70% of an HD2) and using the computer to fine-tune shift feel.
Also...a tune can't solve all of the internal fluid bleed offs and leaks and it's can't magically create clutch capacity.
however...Like I said up above...if you are happy with how it shifts now...and you're stock or close to stock...then just drive it and leave it alone.
The trans has a mechanical barrier that the tune just can't overcome. That's why I personally prefer a properly installed shift kit (about 70% of an HD2) and using the computer to fine-tune shift feel.
Also...a tune can't solve all of the internal fluid bleed offs and leaks and it's can't magically create clutch capacity.
however...Like I said up above...if you are happy with how it shifts now...and you're stock or close to stock...then just drive it and leave it alone.