4l60e question
02-10-2019, 02:18 PM
#41
TECH Junkie
02-10-2019, 04:34 PM
#44
It has third with the connector unplugged because it maxes out the line pressure. It has no third normally because it has an internal leak.
What type of input shaft sealing rings did you use? how did you install them? Did you pressure test them?
Whats the line pressure?
What type of input shaft sealing rings did you use? how did you install them? Did you pressure test them?
Whats the line pressure?
02-10-2019, 05:35 PM
#45
TECH Enthusiast
verify PSM pattern
park/neutral signal A HI B LOW C HI
reverse. A LOW B LOW C HI
D4 A HI B LOW C LOW
D3 A HI B HI C LOW
D2 A HI B HI C HI
1st A LOW B HI C HI
INVALID A LOW B HI C LOW
INVALID A LOW B LOW C LOW
verify
02-10-2019, 06:21 PM
#46
TECH Enthusiast
You said it had third when the trans is unplugged so none of this should apply.
What about the 3rd accumulator check ball and sleeve in the case, did you check that? Does it seal? Did you install a Sonnax servo release valve kit? Is it upside down? If that does not seal then it cannot get third gear... it would have to be missing for it to not get 3rd at all. If it just doesn't seal well, it only partially pushes the band off. This fries the 3-4 clutches and the 2-4 band on a road test. A bad $10 servo capsule cost me $1000. When you find it it's going to be a very small and stupid thing. Do you have access to an oil schematic? It's like a wiring diagram on steroids. LOL
The way the 2-4 servo works is...
The 1-2 shift valve moves and it supplies fluid to the 2nd gear side of the servo to apply the 2-4 band. This fluid supply never stops!!! Then when 3rd is commanded, the 3rd shift valve moves and directs oil to the 3rd accumulator and the 3rd check ball seals (this is a feed/bleed set up)and overcomes 2nd gear oil and pushes the servo off (case side of 2-4 servo). When 4th shift valve moves, 4th oil then is applied to the 4th side of the 2-4 servo (the piston under the servo cover) both 2nd gear oil and 4th oil then overcome 3rd oil and apply the band.
What about the 3rd accumulator check ball and sleeve in the case, did you check that? Does it seal? Did you install a Sonnax servo release valve kit? Is it upside down? If that does not seal then it cannot get third gear... it would have to be missing for it to not get 3rd at all. If it just doesn't seal well, it only partially pushes the band off. This fries the 3-4 clutches and the 2-4 band on a road test. A bad $10 servo capsule cost me $1000. When you find it it's going to be a very small and stupid thing. Do you have access to an oil schematic? It's like a wiring diagram on steroids. LOL
The way the 2-4 servo works is...
The 1-2 shift valve moves and it supplies fluid to the 2nd gear side of the servo to apply the 2-4 band. This fluid supply never stops!!! Then when 3rd is commanded, the 3rd shift valve moves and directs oil to the 3rd accumulator and the 3rd check ball seals (this is a feed/bleed set up)and overcomes 2nd gear oil and pushes the servo off (case side of 2-4 servo). When 4th shift valve moves, 4th oil then is applied to the 4th side of the 2-4 servo (the piston under the servo cover) both 2nd gear oil and 4th oil then overcome 3rd oil and apply the band.
Last edited by Tranzman; 02-10-2019 at 06:31 PM. Reason: more info
02-10-2019, 06:36 PM
#47
TECH Enthusiast
02-10-2019, 06:41 PM
#48
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did not replace the check ball in the case i did put oil in it and it didnt leak into the case
and that is what has me puzzled when i am able to get 3rd when in default you would think it couldnt get that if there was something wrong inside
i was thinking of servo cause i used trans lube all around the seals that maybe they were sticking
no i dont have access to a oil schematic ill try to find one online
when i was talking about it free spinning in commanded fourth i mean the engine revs up like it is not there
and that is what has me puzzled when i am able to get 3rd when in default you would think it couldnt get that if there was something wrong inside
i was thinking of servo cause i used trans lube all around the seals that maybe they were sticking
no i dont have access to a oil schematic ill try to find one online
when i was talking about it free spinning in commanded fourth i mean the engine revs up like it is not there
02-10-2019, 06:50 PM
#49
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i did use the teflon seals on the input shaft and stator shaft and resized them also put them in the pump and air checked them
when i air checked the trans with the air plate i didnt know about the bleed valves in the front drum so once i tore it back apart and done more research i found out you will have some air escaping that was the air leak i was hearing
but before i put it back together this time i air checked the front drum and reverse drum all together and watched everything actuate through the pump holes
when i air checked the trans with the air plate i didnt know about the bleed valves in the front drum so once i tore it back apart and done more research i found out you will have some air escaping that was the air leak i was hearing
but before i put it back together this time i air checked the front drum and reverse drum all together and watched everything actuate through the pump holes
02-10-2019, 07:09 PM
#50
TECH Enthusiast
i did use the teflon seals on the input shaft and stator shaft and resized them also put them in the pump and air checked them
when i air checked the trans with the air plate i didnt know about the bleed valves in the front drum so once i tore it back apart and done more research i found out you will have some air escaping that was the air leak i was hearing
but before i put it back together this time i air checked the front drum and reverse drum all together and watched everything actuate through the pump holes
when i air checked the trans with the air plate i didnt know about the bleed valves in the front drum so once i tore it back apart and done more research i found out you will have some air escaping that was the air leak i was hearing
but before i put it back together this time i air checked the front drum and reverse drum all together and watched everything actuate through the pump holes
02-10-2019, 07:34 PM
#51
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i did 75psi air test and it did have some bleed off
and just went and tested line pressure it was 60 psi at idle in drive and if you try to power brake it it goes to 175 to 200
and just went and tested line pressure it was 60 psi at idle in drive and if you try to power brake it it goes to 175 to 200
02-10-2019, 07:40 PM
#53
TECH Enthusiast
"that is what has me puzzled when i am able to get 3rd when in default you would think it couldnt get that if there was something wrong inside"
With the transmission unplugged or the fuse pulled, you have removed all electrical from the transmission. This creates full line pressure. 180-220 PSI, at that pressure you can overcome all kind of small leaks that 70-100 PSI will not...
"when i was talking about it free spinning in commanded fourth i mean the engine revs up like it is not there"
so it sound as if the 3-4 clutches never apply. is that a correct way of saying that, your getting a command for 3rd and 4th gear but it never shifts from 2nd.
post a picture of your air test plate, please
With the transmission unplugged or the fuse pulled, you have removed all electrical from the transmission. This creates full line pressure. 180-220 PSI, at that pressure you can overcome all kind of small leaks that 70-100 PSI will not...
"when i was talking about it free spinning in commanded fourth i mean the engine revs up like it is not there"
so it sound as if the 3-4 clutches never apply. is that a correct way of saying that, your getting a command for 3rd and 4th gear but it never shifts from 2nd.
post a picture of your air test plate, please
02-10-2019, 08:00 PM
#55
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my son is trying to post a pic of the air plate keeps say moderator has to approve . but it is a half valve body test plate it dont cover the whole valve body
02-10-2019, 08:33 PM
#57
Did you air check it so you could see the clutch packs compressing? Like leave the forward sprag out, put the drum in the pump and look at the forward and 3-4 clutches compressing.
You might need to look at the pressure when it tries to shift to third.
What was the 3-4 clutch clearance?
You might need to look at the pressure when it tries to shift to third.
What was the 3-4 clutch clearance?
02-10-2019, 08:45 PM
#58
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clearance was 60 thousandths for 3/4 clutches
yes air testing clutches with drum in the pump i could see the clutches compress when i supplied air through pump holes and the only air that was exhausting was through the bleed orifices cause i could cover those and it would hold air pressure
yes air testing clutches with drum in the pump i could see the clutches compress when i supplied air through pump holes and the only air that was exhausting was through the bleed orifices cause i could cover those and it would hold air pressure
02-10-2019, 08:51 PM
#60
the input clutch housing orificed cup plug you can see the ball down inside the drum and its stationary and does not move if you look on the turbine shaft side it looks like its a stacked tube like the ball should move just wanting to see if anybody has had this issue or knows about that orifice
That check ball needs to be free so air can escape. I've had a 4L60E slip and eventually stop moving in third and fourth due to burned forward clutches. 3-4's were fine.
At this point maybe the forward housing is full of air.