383camaro!

in the front drum there is 2 there is a capsule that has a free moving check ball and then there is a bleed orifice that is stationary i was not sure if it should be stationary or not tilli done some research and found out it should be

PBA

The feed hole is for the bearing that sits on the washer in this drum. DO NOT touch it.

383camaro!

ok so road tested it today with pressure gauge and when it goes from 1-2 it jumps to 100psi then back to 75 and stays at 75 the rest of the time even when it goes to fourth and free spins

Jays_SSZ28

iTrader: (2)

Time to tear it down again and start over. If you found a piece of old o-ring in it after the rebuild that means it wasn't done thoroughly.
Sounds like a pump problem. Did you have any problems with the slide o-ring? Or the wiper seal?
Are you anywhere near palm beach?

383camaro!

jacksonville here

so pressures are too low ?

383camaro!

did not pull the slide ring out pulled all valves and checked them to make sure they moved free also pulled vaines and cleaned pump

but no i did not pull the slide ring

383camaro!

also just went and did a pcs test and pressures passed on each amp it went up and down

Jays_SSZ28

iTrader: (2)

What about the slide wiper? It's a common cause of low pressure - slide wiper worn, missing, etc.

383camaro!

it was there but did not remove the slide ring or spring or pivot pin or wiper

but your testing pump out put doing a pcs test right?

cause you can get 200 psi out of pump

Jays_SSZ28

iTrader: (2)

What exactly did you do to fix why third/fourth burnt up in the first place?
You can't always just replace burned clutches and call it fixed, as you are finding out right now.

I'm telling you that with the harness unplugged and the resulting max line pressure making it drive, you have an internal leak that won't hold under normal pressure.

Just because shop air made the clutch packs clamp down doesn't mean they will hold enough fluid pressure to move the car. I test mine at 140 psi.

That .060 is too big for the 3-4 also.

Finding old pieces of parts after the rebuild is another sign that you need to tear it down and do it over. What else was floating around and got stuck somewhere.....

Come to think of it, what did you do with the pump slide seal that came in the kit if you didn't take the old one out?

Hate to be the one to break the bad news. Welcome to the forum, I'm the guy who gets called an ******* for not being scared to post what I see in a problem.

It seems like you cut a few corners, just take it apart and start over. The first transmission I ever rebuilt came out probably 8 times before I got it right. You don't need to buy all new parts if the new stuff you put in it still looks ok.

383camaro!

thats just the thing didnt find anything that was the cause

the other thing is we put another trans right in the same spot and it was a known good trans that had been sitting and the 3/4 clutches didnt last 30 miles and i never had that trans apart

the thing i am wondering is if the pcm has a problem cause i know who was selling the truck and the battery was bad and there is no telling how many amps was used to get it started every time they wanted someone to test drive it

and dont worry i have thick skin i am trying to learn about the 4l60e i have rebuilt 3 or 4 of the 700r4 with no issue

and are you covering the bleed holes when you do 140psi air test cause i did 75 psi with the bleed covered and no leaks

383camaro!

and no i didnt replace the slide i still have it from the kit and would not mind tearing the trans back out and down but am trying to find something that justifys pulling it back apart

if the pressure is low why does the book show the pressure is ok when the pcs test is done

i have not found anything that shows what it should be in each gear just what min and max are in drive and reverse

Jays_SSZ28

iTrader: (2)

I cover the bleed holes with my finger the best possible (it's not a 100% seal)

Like I said earlier, I found a no 3-4 condition in a 4L60E once that turned out to be the forward clutch. This was for a guy that I was helping by working on some classics and hot rods he had. This was a Tahoe that he used to tow the cars with on a trailer.
He was dead set on getting a used trans off craigslist, I had a hard time talking him into letting me rebuild his existing one. I eventually talked him into it.
I found out that the one in it had been bought used. I had rust inside from water coming in the front somehow, or the vent. It rusted the forward piston housing where it goes into the 3-4 piston and ripped the seal out of it.
Whatever the sequence of events was in that transmission I can tell you one thing for sure, it had the most common 3-4 clutch failure symptoms, but the 3-4 clutches were not burned at all. Forward was down to the metal. And this truck would lay your head back in first and second.

Part of my point here is don't get stuck on diagnosing the most common thing because it might be something else you're over looking. AND don't go out and expect a used one to work. Maybe your 30 mile trans had the same problem the one above had.

It's very rare that these PCM's go bad on these trucks.

I have an '02 camaro SS that sits in the garage, almost the same PCM. I use a charger, change batteries, never really jumped it. Never had problems. Who knows though, maybe they hit the cables on backwards for a second during a jump on yours, that might cause some weird problems.

Jays_SSZ28

iTrader: (2)

Well it doesn't work. It would be back out if it was mine.

I'm not familiar with the PCS test you're doing. I use hptuners. If you can raise the pressure and drive it and find it now has third and fourth then you just verified it's an internal leak.

98CayenneT/A

I have also gone through this. Burnt 3-4 symptoms, would not shift into 3rd period. Ended up being a cracked forward apply piston. Overrun and forward clutches were absolutely trashed, 3-4 clutch pack was still in decent shape.

mrvedit

Everyone is giving you very good advice here and Jays is being very patient. But it is difficult to understand many of your posts.
What I understand so far:
* With the trans connector disconnected, the trans defaults properly to 3rd gear and the car drives.
* However with the trans connected, the trans free-wheels as soon as 3rd gear is commanded.
Please confirm this is still correct.

So far I concur that it sounds like an internal leak. With max line pressure there is enough pressure (past any leak) to engage the 3/4 clutch, but when there is only moderate line pressure, the leak prevents enough pressure to engage the clutch.
It would be helpful to know what the line pressure is when 3rd gear is commanded and it feels like is is free-wheeling. If the line pressure itself is low, then we can isolate the problem to the pump, the pressure control solenoid or even the PCM. However, if the line pressure is sufficient, then you need to look for a leak.

One leak point that has not been discussed in this thread is between the input shaft and the input drum. I recall one pro builder stating that half of the customer units he opened and tested leaked here. He therefore always pulled out the input shaft, used a generous amount of red loctite and then pressed the input shaft back into the drum. The better solution is to also add the Sonnax input drum reinforcement ring.
I'm not saying this is your problem, but leakage here tends to get worse as the trans warms up and the internals flex a bit; so an air test may not fully show it.

An extremely worn servo bore will also leak the 3/4 apply fluid. Switching to an o-ring on the 2nd piston might help this. (IIRC Sonnax has the o-ring set for this.)

Hopefully we can guide you in the right direction.

Jays_SSZ28

iTrader: (2)

This might be yet another failed 4L60E build that ends with no further information.

mrvedit

We'll see. In any case thanks for trying so hard to help this guy.

Tranzman

The reason I am so curious about the solution is:
I have a 2000 s10 2.2L (my current LS swap) auto that occasionally would not shift to 3rd above 3500 rpm. Odd problems get my attention

mrvedit

Tranzman: Technically you are hijacking this thread, but I understand your problem is in the same ball park and you are mostly just watching this thread. So forgiven. However, if you want to start a new thread, I can move your post to a new thread.
So, I assume you have a scanner which confirms that the 2-3 shift is commanded, but the trans stays in 2nd gear. Very strange indeed; I also would have first replaced the shift solenoids and then the VB. I would expect the 3rd apply fluid to release the servo/band and thereby cause a free-wheeling condition. Perhaps an intermittent leak is so great that the serve/band do not release and the trans stays in 2nd gear. Sounds like higher line pressure causes the condition. Strange indeed.
Perhaps we should make this a new thread and you can then followup after you open the trans and hopefully find the problem.

And great having another experienced trans builder join this forum!