LF advice - building an 01 4L80e (automatic)
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,194
Likes: 1,377
From: Nitro Alley
Hey guys :-) ...Like I said:
Also, you guys should know: I agree with ole' MaroonMonsta!
He is keeping things simple, and very budget friendly with really the two essential hard parts for this build. There is nothing wrong with this at all. :-)
There are times when a builder can offer these different builds to a customer by explaining the differences and reasons behind them. Then let the customer make their choices.
This can often turn around and bite you in the ***... But anything within reason, I let customers decide.
For the 1991-1999 units, I even will go this route should the customer wish to be as cost effective as possible.
This does not count swapping to a case torrington bearing, however we all almost always make this change. There is no reason not to.
The one hard part that is very cheap that I almost always install in 1997 and up units...
Is the a THM400/ Pre 1997 Hollow mainshaft...This cheap part swap will massively improve cool Lube to the Planetary Sets.
I can improve the Post 1999 OverDrive section Lube significantly. However the same lube mods with the Pre 1999 OverDrive section hold-up to even more power and thus I always prefer to use.
The greatest thing about small businesses in the USA is competition.
This is what makes better parts and service available to customers at better prices, along with the customer having choices in the matter.
Which business to go to, which parts to use... ETC :-)
He is keeping things simple, and very budget friendly with really the two essential hard parts for this build. There is nothing wrong with this at all. :-)
There are times when a builder can offer these different builds to a customer by explaining the differences and reasons behind them. Then let the customer make their choices.
This can often turn around and bite you in the ***... But anything within reason, I let customers decide.
For the 1991-1999 units, I even will go this route should the customer wish to be as cost effective as possible.
This does not count swapping to a case torrington bearing, however we all almost always make this change. There is no reason not to.
The one hard part that is very cheap that I almost always install in 1997 and up units...
Is the a THM400/ Pre 1997 Hollow mainshaft...This cheap part swap will massively improve cool Lube to the Planetary Sets.
I can improve the Post 1999 OverDrive section Lube significantly. However the same lube mods with the Pre 1999 OverDrive section hold-up to even more power and thus I always prefer to use.
The greatest thing about small businesses in the USA is competition.
This is what makes better parts and service available to customers at better prices, along with the customer having choices in the matter.
Which business to go to, which parts to use... ETC :-)
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 161
Likes: 4
From: New Zealand
First off... You have a 2001 core; correct? 1,000 HP ?
In terms of hard-parts... There is not very much that is needed.
Now there are parts that should be mandatory and parts that are recommended (for longer life, reduced power consumption, less drag, and less heat)
There are also parts that I refer to as premium... I will not be getting into these as they help but the cost to benefit ratio is poor at best.
You will get multiple opinions from multiple builders and there are always more than one way to do things.
This would be my way.
Always start with a clean and fully inspected core.
Replace all wear items (bushings, bearings, thrust washers, thrust bearings, bands, clutches and steels, all seals, sprags and roller clutches, ETC)
The most important parts of this entire build are modifications of hydraulic circuits and lube circuits.
Much more so then just installing better hard parts.
You will still burn-up the unit without the needed hydraulic changes.
I do not give this info out... most builders do not either...
Most of it we all do the same, but most of us all have our own secret techniques. You will have to pay someone for that info on hydraulic improvements.
Parts that should be mandatory:
-Billet turbine-shaft
-1991-1999 Overdrive/ Overrun Assembly (Overdrive planet, Overrun drum, and one-way roller clutch with return spring and snap-ring)
-Billet forward clutch hub
-12 THM400 intermediate clutch return springs and steel retainer with new spiro-lock
-Billet intermediate clutch backing plate
Recommended:
-Case torrington bearing
-Forward clutch hub torrington bearing
-Billet or OEM aluminum THM400 direct piston
-Billet forward piston (only if using trans-brake)
-Center support with larger billet intermediate piston
-1991-1996 hollow mainshaft
-Intermediate clutch spiro-lock (instead of snap-ring)
That should be most of it... I am falling asleep, so I will update that tomorrow if I forgot something...
In terms of hard-parts... There is not very much that is needed.
Now there are parts that should be mandatory and parts that are recommended (for longer life, reduced power consumption, less drag, and less heat)
There are also parts that I refer to as premium... I will not be getting into these as they help but the cost to benefit ratio is poor at best.
You will get multiple opinions from multiple builders and there are always more than one way to do things.
This would be my way.
Always start with a clean and fully inspected core.
Replace all wear items (bushings, bearings, thrust washers, thrust bearings, bands, clutches and steels, all seals, sprags and roller clutches, ETC)
The most important parts of this entire build are modifications of hydraulic circuits and lube circuits.
Much more so then just installing better hard parts.
You will still burn-up the unit without the needed hydraulic changes.
I do not give this info out... most builders do not either...
Most of it we all do the same, but most of us all have our own secret techniques. You will have to pay someone for that info on hydraulic improvements.
Parts that should be mandatory:
-Billet turbine-shaft
-1991-1999 Overdrive/ Overrun Assembly (Overdrive planet, Overrun drum, and one-way roller clutch with return spring and snap-ring)
-Billet forward clutch hub
-12 THM400 intermediate clutch return springs and steel retainer with new spiro-lock
-Billet intermediate clutch backing plate
Recommended:
-Case torrington bearing
-Forward clutch hub torrington bearing
-Billet or OEM aluminum THM400 direct piston
-Billet forward piston (only if using trans-brake)
-Center support with larger billet intermediate piston
-1991-1996 hollow mainshaft
-Intermediate clutch spiro-lock (instead of snap-ring)
That should be most of it... I am falling asleep, so I will update that tomorrow if I forgot something...
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,012
Likes: 48
Many of these "transmission gurus" speak in cryptic terms. They like to make it sound like transmissions are far to mysterious and complicated for the typical mortal to understand. If it were me, I'd put a good billet forward drum in it, a 6 clutch direct, and make sure the line pressure is solid, and roll out. Definitely wouldn't spend 5 stacks on it either, but whatever.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,194
Likes: 1,377
From: Nitro Alley
Many of these "transmission gurus" speak in cryptic terms. They like to make it sound like transmissions are far to mysterious and complicated for the typical mortal to understand. If it were me, I'd put a good billet forward drum in it, a 6 clutch direct, and make sure the line pressure is solid, and roll out. Definitely wouldn't spend 5 stacks on it either, but whatever.
I started teaching myself about them when I was 11 years old (my family has been in Pro and now only semi-Pro drag racing all my life) since I was always around all the race cars. I could not help but be interested.
In regard to secrets... I feel when a person does something well; do not do it for free.
So somethings are going to remain off of the internet and relatively secret from the masses...
LMAO... and I am no automatic transmission guru... ****, I am a GM powertrain guru! Get it right! ;-) ;-) ;-)
I do not sleep better in that sense. However, I do sleep better knowing that I might be offering something that no one else does (all though this is highly unlikely... it is not like i re-invented the damn thing).
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,605
Likes: 1,316
From: Iowa
As you can tell by this forum...Myself and PLENTY others are willing to share info.
Alot of this info that I've shared on the 60e/80e...and I'm 100% positive alot of the info Jake has shared on th350/th400...and info hutch has shared on powerglides...and info crosley has shared on 80e's...etc, etc, etc
This info has given most people the capability to have MUCH more success than they would without the internet.
But at the same time...I'm not going to take food out of my own mouth...and I don't expect others to either.
If you're doing something special enough (think custom hydraulic modifications...new transbrake design...manual valve body design...etc) that very few others can do...why give that away for free?
I've seen first hand that info I have shared on the 60e started to make it into other local builders transmissions...there were people on FB watching some of my posts and then taking that info and putting it into their builds. Builds that were selling in the same area as me.
That's not a fun thing to see haha
So...if you're unhappy with the amount of info shared on this forum...then you can gladly delete your account. But if you expect someone that has spent the time, energy, brainpower, etc to develop and understand the transmission and make it better...if you expect them to spoon feed you all their hard work and all you need to do is login to the forum...doesn't really sound like a fair trade to me.
Alot of this info that I've shared on the 60e/80e...and I'm 100% positive alot of the info Jake has shared on th350/th400...and info hutch has shared on powerglides...and info crosley has shared on 80e's...etc, etc, etc
This info has given most people the capability to have MUCH more success than they would without the internet.
But at the same time...I'm not going to take food out of my own mouth...and I don't expect others to either.
If you're doing something special enough (think custom hydraulic modifications...new transbrake design...manual valve body design...etc) that very few others can do...why give that away for free?
I've seen first hand that info I have shared on the 60e started to make it into other local builders transmissions...there were people on FB watching some of my posts and then taking that info and putting it into their builds. Builds that were selling in the same area as me.
That's not a fun thing to see haha
So...if you're unhappy with the amount of info shared on this forum...then you can gladly delete your account. But if you expect someone that has spent the time, energy, brainpower, etc to develop and understand the transmission and make it better...if you expect them to spoon feed you all their hard work and all you need to do is login to the forum...doesn't really sound like a fair trade to me.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,194
Likes: 1,377
From: Nitro Alley
As you can tell by this forum...Myself and PLENTY others are willing to share info.
Alot of this info that I've shared on the 60e/80e...and I'm 100% positive alot of the info Jake has shared on th350/th400...and info hutch has shared on powerglides...and info crosley has shared on 80e's...etc, etc, etc
This info has given most people the capability to have MUCH more success than they would without the internet.
But at the same time...I'm not going to take food out of my own mouth...and I don't expect others to either.
If you're doing something special enough (think custom hydraulic modifications...new transbrake design...manual valve body design...etc) that very few others can do...why give that away for free?
I've seen first hand that info I have shared on the 60e started to make it into other local builders transmissions...there were people on FB watching some of my posts and then taking that info and putting it into their builds. Builds that were selling in the same area as me.
That's not a fun thing to see haha
So...if you're unhappy with the amount of info shared on this forum...then you can gladly delete your account. But if you expect someone that has spent the time, energy, brainpower, etc to develop and understand the transmission and make it better...if you expect them to spoon feed you all their hard work and all you need to do is login to the forum...doesn't really sound like a fair trade to me.
Alot of this info that I've shared on the 60e/80e...and I'm 100% positive alot of the info Jake has shared on th350/th400...and info hutch has shared on powerglides...and info crosley has shared on 80e's...etc, etc, etc
This info has given most people the capability to have MUCH more success than they would without the internet.
But at the same time...I'm not going to take food out of my own mouth...and I don't expect others to either.
If you're doing something special enough (think custom hydraulic modifications...new transbrake design...manual valve body design...etc) that very few others can do...why give that away for free?
I've seen first hand that info I have shared on the 60e started to make it into other local builders transmissions...there were people on FB watching some of my posts and then taking that info and putting it into their builds. Builds that were selling in the same area as me.
That's not a fun thing to see haha
So...if you're unhappy with the amount of info shared on this forum...then you can gladly delete your account. But if you expect someone that has spent the time, energy, brainpower, etc to develop and understand the transmission and make it better...if you expect them to spoon feed you all their hard work and all you need to do is login to the forum...doesn't really sound like a fair trade to me.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 590
Likes: 231
From: Lewisville, TX
As you can tell by this forum...Myself and PLENTY others are willing to share info.
Alot of this info that I've shared on the 60e/80e...and I'm 100% positive alot of the info Jake has shared on th350/th400...and info hutch has shared on powerglides...and info crosley has shared on 80e's...etc, etc, etc
This info has given most people the capability to have MUCH more success than they would without the internet.
But at the same time...I'm not going to take food out of my own mouth...and I don't expect others to either.
If you're doing something special enough (think custom hydraulic modifications...new transbrake design...manual valve body design...etc) that very few others can do...why give that away for free?
I've seen first hand that info I have shared on the 60e started to make it into other local builders transmissions...there were people on FB watching some of my posts and then taking that info and putting it into their builds. Builds that were selling in the same area as me.
That's not a fun thing to see haha
So...if you're unhappy with the amount of info shared on this forum...then you can gladly delete your account. But if you expect someone that has spent the time, energy, brainpower, etc to develop and understand the transmission and make it better...if you expect them to spoon feed you all their hard work and all you need to do is login to the forum...doesn't really sound like a fair trade to me.
Alot of this info that I've shared on the 60e/80e...and I'm 100% positive alot of the info Jake has shared on th350/th400...and info hutch has shared on powerglides...and info crosley has shared on 80e's...etc, etc, etc
This info has given most people the capability to have MUCH more success than they would without the internet.
But at the same time...I'm not going to take food out of my own mouth...and I don't expect others to either.
If you're doing something special enough (think custom hydraulic modifications...new transbrake design...manual valve body design...etc) that very few others can do...why give that away for free?
I've seen first hand that info I have shared on the 60e started to make it into other local builders transmissions...there were people on FB watching some of my posts and then taking that info and putting it into their builds. Builds that were selling in the same area as me.
That's not a fun thing to see haha
So...if you're unhappy with the amount of info shared on this forum...then you can gladly delete your account. But if you expect someone that has spent the time, energy, brainpower, etc to develop and understand the transmission and make it better...if you expect them to spoon feed you all their hard work and all you need to do is login to the forum...doesn't really sound like a fair trade to me.
</sarcasm>
Restricted User
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 7,192
Likes: 109
From: Ohio
I like learning new things, but does it always have to be the hard way
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,605
Likes: 1,316
From: Iowa
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 590
Likes: 231
From: Lewisville, TX
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,012
Likes: 48
So why the tired attempt at being dismissive, along with the self anointing of yourself as the oracle of ls1 tech, telling whoever it was that you were talking to, to "delete their account"? Nevermind the rest of diatribe about "taking food out of your mouth", so on and so forth.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,605
Likes: 1,316
From: Iowa
Because the difference between me (someone halfway decent at transmissions...FAR from a pro...far from the "oracle of ls1tech"...just a small shop) compared to people like Jake, Hutch, Mr. Hipster, Vortec, etc etc etc is vast.
There's not a laundry list of things I do special compared to anyone else...but those guys mentioned above...they've got some Grey matter man. They know and understand things that alot of guys can't wrap their head around. THEY'RE the ones that don't need to take food out of their mouth.
The "delete your account" comment...if you read the whole thing...was saying that if this forum doesn't already give good enough info...then nobody is forcing you to read it. If you're going to ask for help then get mad when you don't get 1000% effort from some stranger on the internet...then you don't have to come to the forum.
If you want me to simplify what I was saying...here goes.
"you get what you get and you don't throw a fit"
you shouldn't guilt vortec or anyone else into sharing **** they don't want to
and to be abundantly clear...I'm not "the oracle of ls1tech"...I help when I can...I'm a smart *** the rest of the time...and I'll learn something new all the time on this forum.
I always thought GameOva was a "good guy" on the forums...I guess if I got your panties in a wad...my bad. But if you misinterpreted some of what I said, I sure hope we both move on...cuz your last comment isn't the goal of myself of anyone else being here
There's not a laundry list of things I do special compared to anyone else...but those guys mentioned above...they've got some Grey matter man. They know and understand things that alot of guys can't wrap their head around. THEY'RE the ones that don't need to take food out of their mouth.
The "delete your account" comment...if you read the whole thing...was saying that if this forum doesn't already give good enough info...then nobody is forcing you to read it. If you're going to ask for help then get mad when you don't get 1000% effort from some stranger on the internet...then you don't have to come to the forum.
If you want me to simplify what I was saying...here goes.
"you get what you get and you don't throw a fit"
you shouldn't guilt vortec or anyone else into sharing **** they don't want to
and to be abundantly clear...I'm not "the oracle of ls1tech"...I help when I can...I'm a smart *** the rest of the time...and I'll learn something new all the time on this forum.
I always thought GameOva was a "good guy" on the forums...I guess if I got your panties in a wad...my bad. But if you misinterpreted some of what I said, I sure hope we both move on...cuz your last comment isn't the goal of myself of anyone else being here
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,012
Likes: 48
Its all good, and no, my "panties" aren't in a bunch. Was just curious about the dismissiveness, but I get it, at times im that way myself. Btw, no need to "clarify", as it was simple enough to understand. And yes, I'm still a good guy, I just speak up when I feel the need.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,194
Likes: 1,377
From: Nitro Alley
Because the difference between me (someone halfway decent at transmissions...FAR from a pro...far from the "oracle of ls1tech"...just a small shop) compared to people like Jake, Hutch, Mr. Hipster, Vortec, etc etc etc is vast.
There's not a laundry list of things I do special compared to anyone else...but those guys mentioned above...they've got some Grey matter man. They know and understand things that alot of guys can't wrap their head around. THEY'RE the ones that don't need to take food out of their mouth.
There's not a laundry list of things I do special compared to anyone else...but those guys mentioned above...they've got some Grey matter man. They know and understand things that alot of guys can't wrap their head around. THEY'RE the ones that don't need to take food out of their mouth.
Those guy all specialize in automatic transmission, where are I specialize in the entire drive-train...
To put things bluntly; They all are far more successful than I am as far as automatic transmissions go.
Maybe some day I'll be up there... Not likely though.
Now when it come to you Mr. Monsta... Sure you like to play around as a jerk, but who doesn't. You are far to modest!
Looking back through the forum for auto trans threads... you appear to be one of the most active and knowledgeable people here for the last two years or more! :-)
So thank you! :-) I feel you deserve some thanks from the members here... but we both know; the only time we here from someone we have helped is when they want to blame us for something they did wrong... LMAO!