LF advice - building an 01 4L80e (automatic)
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Teching In
Joined: Sep 2018
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LF advice - building an 01 4L80e (automatic) Good evening friends.
I am looking to put together a parts list for my 4l80e. My goal is a 1000hp turbo LS 6.0.
my engine and trans came out of an 01 2500hd.
thank you for the help guys
I am looking to put together a parts list for my 4l80e. My goal is a 1000hp turbo LS 6.0.
my engine and trans came out of an 01 2500hd.
thank you for the help guys
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,605
Likes: 1,316
From: Iowa
billet input-currently I believe Jake's performance has the most budget friendly option. over 1000hp at 4000+ lbs proven
FTI's piece is also nice and affordable
forged fwd hub...fti best price here.
Those should be the only hard parts you break.
The rest is getting the clutches to live...easy
FTI's piece is also nice and affordable
forged fwd hub...fti best price here.
Those should be the only hard parts you break.
The rest is getting the clutches to live...easy
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,605
Likes: 1,316
From: Iowa
Joe...which sprag?
There is the int. sprag that applies during a 1-2 shift
and there is the OD roller clutch. It stays applied for 1-2-3-R. Having the shifter in 3rd will apply the overrun's to help support the OD roller clutch. But it won't do anything to support the int. sprag.
There is the int. sprag that applies during a 1-2 shift
and there is the OD roller clutch. It stays applied for 1-2-3-R. Having the shifter in 3rd will apply the overrun's to help support the OD roller clutch. But it won't do anything to support the int. sprag.
TECH Junkie
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,046
Likes: 713
From: Poplarville, MS
Sorry I couldn't resist, he is always popping in on threads talking trash about 4L60e's and how 400's and 4L80e's never break.
Sorry JoeNova I don't mean to make lite of your mishap.
Last edited by bbond105; Jul 24, 2019 at 01:27 PM.
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TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,605
Likes: 1,316
From: Iowa
4l80e's break allllll the time.
I build them...I know how often we get stock trucks in the shop needing fixed.
It amazes me that people think 80e's are perfect transmissions and each one ever produced can go 400k miles, then get put behind a 1300hp racecar with just an HD2 kit and it'll be perfectly fine.
If they saw the failures transmission shops see...they would not be so excited to put a junkyard trans in ANYTHING haha
I build them...I know how often we get stock trucks in the shop needing fixed.
It amazes me that people think 80e's are perfect transmissions and each one ever produced can go 400k miles, then get put behind a 1300hp racecar with just an HD2 kit and it'll be perfectly fine.
If they saw the failures transmission shops see...they would not be so excited to put a junkyard trans in ANYTHING haha
Originally Posted by MaroonMonsterLS1
billet input-currently I believe Jake's performance has the most budget friendly option. over 1000hp at 4000+ lbs proven
FTI's piece is also nice and affordable
forged fwd hub...fti best price here.
Those should be the only hard parts you break.
The rest is getting the clutches to live...easy
FTI's piece is also nice and affordable
forged fwd hub...fti best price here.
Those should be the only hard parts you break.
The rest is getting the clutches to live...easy
Originally Posted by MaroonMonsterLS1
4l80e's break allllll the time.
I build them...I know how often we get stock trucks in the shop needing fixed.
It amazes me that people think 80e's are perfect transmissions and each one ever produced can go 400k miles, then get put behind a 1300hp racecar with just an HD2 kit and it'll be perfectly fine.
If they saw the failures transmission shops see...they would not be so excited to put a junkyard trans in ANYTHING haha
I build them...I know how often we get stock trucks in the shop needing fixed.
It amazes me that people think 80e's are perfect transmissions and each one ever produced can go 400k miles, then get put behind a 1300hp racecar with just an HD2 kit and it'll be perfectly fine.
If they saw the failures transmission shops see...they would not be so excited to put a junkyard trans in ANYTHING haha
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,605
Likes: 1,316
From: Iowa
The NEWEST th400 you'll find is 1990
So the newest trans you'll find is 39 years old...I wouldn't throw that in any race car un-touched.
Most of the 400's I see NEED a new direct drum with sprag if they're going to see any type of performance use. They also need good hydraulic modifications.
The 4l80e and th400 are virtually the same for 1-2-3-R gears.
the input is different and of course you have an additional front planetary carrier for OD...but the clutches/bands and complete rear geartrain will swap between the two units (you have to pay attention to year differences in the 80 and make sure you match parts for endplay purposes...but you get what I mean)
So the newest trans you'll find is 39 years old...I wouldn't throw that in any race car un-touched.
Most of the 400's I see NEED a new direct drum with sprag if they're going to see any type of performance use. They also need good hydraulic modifications.
The 4l80e and th400 are virtually the same for 1-2-3-R gears.
the input is different and of course you have an additional front planetary carrier for OD...but the clutches/bands and complete rear geartrain will swap between the two units (you have to pay attention to year differences in the 80 and make sure you match parts for endplay purposes...but you get what I mean)
I was told I'd be looking at around a $1500 price difference between a TH400 RMVB and a 4L80E electronically controlled to handle 1500rwhp. I do plan on driving the car on the highway so the extra $1500 and not having to shift it myself while getting that OD gear seems like a no brainer.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,012
Likes: 48
Anything that isn't used the correct way will come apart, 80E and 400 included. JoeNova learned how to race his 80, now I'm sure it will last quite a while.
Teching In
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 9
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From: gloucestershire UK
ive got a LS1 with twin turbos on a 59 apache turning out 600hp , its on a 4L60 box with over drive that was built by trans depot in florida and was rated for 800hp but ive just killed it !!!!!! (street not strip )
the box has only done about 500 miles ………. ive now been told by another well known gearbox race builder that the 4L60 will never take the power so im waisting my time and now looking to change , what is going to be better / easier for street use and minimal track action ?? ?? 4L80 or th400 ?? don't want to have to do it again !!!!!!!!!!
the box has only done about 500 miles ………. ive now been told by another well known gearbox race builder that the 4L60 will never take the power so im waisting my time and now looking to change , what is going to be better / easier for street use and minimal track action ?? ?? 4L80 or th400 ?? don't want to have to do it again !!!!!!!!!!
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,012
Likes: 48
ive got a LS1 with twin turbos on a 59 apache turning out 600hp , its on a 4L60 box with over drive that was built by trans depot in florida and was rated for 800hp but ive just killed it !!!!!! (street not strip )
the box has only done about 500 miles ………. ive now been told by another well known gearbox race builder that the 4L60 will never take the power so im waisting my time and now looking to change , what is going to be better / easier for street use and minimal track action ?? ?? 4L80 or th400 ?? don't want to have to do it again !!!!!!!!!!
the box has only done about 500 miles ………. ive now been told by another well known gearbox race builder that the 4L60 will never take the power so im waisting my time and now looking to change , what is going to be better / easier for street use and minimal track action ?? ?? 4L80 or th400 ?? don't want to have to do it again !!!!!!!!!!
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,194
Likes: 1,377
From: Nitro Alley
First off... You have a 2001 core; correct? 1,000 HP ?
In terms of hard-parts... There is not very much that is needed.
Now there are parts that should be mandatory and parts that are recommended (for longer life, reduced power consumption, less drag, and less heat)
There are also parts that I refer to as premium... I will not be getting into these as they help but the cost to benefit ratio is poor at best.
You will get multiple opinions from multiple builders and there are always more than one way to do things.
This would be my way.
Always start with a clean and fully inspected core.
Replace all wear items (bushings, bearings, thrust washers, thrust bearings, bands, clutches and steels, all seals, sprags and roller clutches, ETC)
The most important parts of this entire build are modifications of hydraulic circuits and lube circuits.
Much more so then just installing better hard parts.
You will still burn-up the unit without the needed hydraulic changes.
I do not give this info out... most builders do not either...
Most of it we all do the same, but most of us all have our own secret techniques. You will have to pay someone for that info on hydraulic improvements.
Parts that should be mandatory:
-Billet turbine-shaft
-1991-1999 Overdrive/ Overrun Assembly (Overdrive planet, Overrun drum, and one-way roller clutch with return spring and snap-ring)
-Billet forward clutch hub
-12 THM400 intermediate clutch return springs and steel retainer with new spiro-lock
-Billet intermediate clutch backing plate
Recommended:
-Case torrington bearing
-Forward clutch hub torrington bearing
-Billet or OEM aluminum THM400 direct piston
-Billet forward piston (only if using trans-brake)
-Center support with larger billet intermediate piston
-1991-1996 hollow mainshaft
-Intermediate clutch spiro-lock (instead of snap-ring)
That should be most of it... I am falling asleep, so I will update that tomorrow if I forgot something...
In terms of hard-parts... There is not very much that is needed.
Now there are parts that should be mandatory and parts that are recommended (for longer life, reduced power consumption, less drag, and less heat)
There are also parts that I refer to as premium... I will not be getting into these as they help but the cost to benefit ratio is poor at best.
You will get multiple opinions from multiple builders and there are always more than one way to do things.
This would be my way.
Always start with a clean and fully inspected core.
Replace all wear items (bushings, bearings, thrust washers, thrust bearings, bands, clutches and steels, all seals, sprags and roller clutches, ETC)
The most important parts of this entire build are modifications of hydraulic circuits and lube circuits.
Much more so then just installing better hard parts.
You will still burn-up the unit without the needed hydraulic changes.
I do not give this info out... most builders do not either...
Most of it we all do the same, but most of us all have our own secret techniques. You will have to pay someone for that info on hydraulic improvements.
Parts that should be mandatory:
-Billet turbine-shaft
-1991-1999 Overdrive/ Overrun Assembly (Overdrive planet, Overrun drum, and one-way roller clutch with return spring and snap-ring)
-Billet forward clutch hub
-12 THM400 intermediate clutch return springs and steel retainer with new spiro-lock
-Billet intermediate clutch backing plate
Recommended:
-Case torrington bearing
-Forward clutch hub torrington bearing
-Billet or OEM aluminum THM400 direct piston
-Billet forward piston (only if using trans-brake)
-Center support with larger billet intermediate piston
-1991-1996 hollow mainshaft
-Intermediate clutch spiro-lock (instead of snap-ring)
That should be most of it... I am falling asleep, so I will update that tomorrow if I forgot something...
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,605
Likes: 1,316
From: Iowa
First off... You have a 2001 core; correct? 1,000 HP ?
In terms of hard-parts... There is not very much that is needed.
Now there are parts that should be mandatory and parts that are recommended (for longer life, reduced power consumption, less drag, and less heat)
There are also parts that I refer to as premium... I will not be getting into these as they help but the cost to benefit ratio is poor at best.
You will get multiple opinions from multiple builders and there are always more than one way to do things.
This would be my way.
Always start with a clean and fully inspected core.
Replace all wear items (bushings, bearings, thrust washers, thrust bearings, bands, clutches and steels, all seals, sprags and roller clutches, ETC)
The most important parts of this entire build are modifications of hydraulic circuits and lube circuits.
Much more so then just installing better hard parts.
You will still burn-up the unit without the needed hydraulic changes.
I do not give this info out... most builders do not either...
Most of it we all do the same, but most of us all have our own secret techniques. You will have to pay someone for that info on hydraulic improvements.
Parts that should be mandatory:
-Billet turbine-shaft
-1991-1999 Overdrive/ Overrun Assembly (Overdrive planet, Overrun drum, and one-way roller clutch with return spring and snap-ring) Yes this is a better part. But NO I wouldn't say mandatory to replace. If you race/beat on it, you need to be in D3 shifter position. This will apply the overruns and support the roller clutch. It will be fine at 1000
-Billet forward clutch hub.
-12 THM400 intermediate clutch return springs and steel retainer with new spiro-lock. If not transbrake...not a big deal here.
-Billet intermediate clutch backing plate I would move this to the recommended list. Use the thicker .366 plate. Flat stone it to be sure it's in good shape.
Recommended:
-Case torrington bearing. Very good idea on any build
-Forward clutch hub torrington bearing
-Billet or OEM aluminum THM400 direct piston I have molded pistons here at over 1000hp. The molded pistons work great.
-Billet forward piston (only if using trans-brake)I wouldn't bother with this.
-Center support with larger billet intermediate piston I strongly disagree here. There is SO much clamping capacity in the intermediates. 3 clutch setups live at 1000 horse. If you run 4 clutches in a 4l80e you will not ever burn them up unless you have a low fluid level issue.
-1991-1996 hollow mainshaft
-Intermediate clutch spiro-lock (instead of snap-ring) Use a TF727 .106 thick snap ring.
That should be most of it... I am falling asleep, so I will update that tomorrow if I forgot something...
In terms of hard-parts... There is not very much that is needed.
Now there are parts that should be mandatory and parts that are recommended (for longer life, reduced power consumption, less drag, and less heat)
There are also parts that I refer to as premium... I will not be getting into these as they help but the cost to benefit ratio is poor at best.
You will get multiple opinions from multiple builders and there are always more than one way to do things.
This would be my way.
Always start with a clean and fully inspected core.
Replace all wear items (bushings, bearings, thrust washers, thrust bearings, bands, clutches and steels, all seals, sprags and roller clutches, ETC)
The most important parts of this entire build are modifications of hydraulic circuits and lube circuits.
Much more so then just installing better hard parts.
You will still burn-up the unit without the needed hydraulic changes.
I do not give this info out... most builders do not either...
Most of it we all do the same, but most of us all have our own secret techniques. You will have to pay someone for that info on hydraulic improvements.
Parts that should be mandatory:
-Billet turbine-shaft
-1991-1999 Overdrive/ Overrun Assembly (Overdrive planet, Overrun drum, and one-way roller clutch with return spring and snap-ring) Yes this is a better part. But NO I wouldn't say mandatory to replace. If you race/beat on it, you need to be in D3 shifter position. This will apply the overruns and support the roller clutch. It will be fine at 1000
-Billet forward clutch hub.
-12 THM400 intermediate clutch return springs and steel retainer with new spiro-lock. If not transbrake...not a big deal here.
-Billet intermediate clutch backing plate I would move this to the recommended list. Use the thicker .366 plate. Flat stone it to be sure it's in good shape.
Recommended:
-Case torrington bearing. Very good idea on any build
-Forward clutch hub torrington bearing
-Billet or OEM aluminum THM400 direct piston I have molded pistons here at over 1000hp. The molded pistons work great.
-Billet forward piston (only if using trans-brake)I wouldn't bother with this.
-Center support with larger billet intermediate piston I strongly disagree here. There is SO much clamping capacity in the intermediates. 3 clutch setups live at 1000 horse. If you run 4 clutches in a 4l80e you will not ever burn them up unless you have a low fluid level issue.
-1991-1996 hollow mainshaft
-Intermediate clutch spiro-lock (instead of snap-ring) Use a TF727 .106 thick snap ring.
That should be most of it... I am falling asleep, so I will update that tomorrow if I forgot something...
But for 1000hp alot of that list is overkill for a guy that will be building his own in the garage.
Billet input shaft (Jakes is best price and very strong...like basement 9's at 4k+ lbs strong)
Forged Fwd hub (FTI is best price and very strong)
Rollerize output (sonnax has a kit if you're not sure how)
HD int. snap ring
34 element sprag
Those should really be the only mandatory parts at 1khp
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,012
Likes: 48
Vortec does good work. But sometimes he goes with the "replace/upgrade for peace of mind" approach. Let me be clear...there is NOTHING wrong with that. Nothing at all.
But for 1000hp alot of that list is overkill for a guy that will be building his own in the garage.
But for 1000hp alot of that list is overkill for a guy that will be building his own in the garage.