MaroonMonsterLS1

Don't do the reinforcement sleeve. It doesn't make the drum any stronger...it just moves the failure point around. Plus...if you install it wrong, you'll damage the drum and possibly even totally destroy it as you install.

for the 3/4's I recommend 7 frictions for almost all setups...but if you want 8 you can.


7 CLUTCH

• .223 apply plate
• 7*.065 clutch
• 6*.095 steel
• .192 backing plate
• .093 snap ring

This should get you to about .025-.035 clearance

8 CLUTCH

• .223 apply plate
• 8*.065 clutch
• 7*.077 steel
• .157 backing plate
• .092 snap ring

should net you .030-.038 clearance

about .004 clearance per clutch is a good starting point. Don't go wider than .006 per clutch

MAKE SURE your reverse input drum is smooth and flat. Most of them get a little concave with mileage.
Set band clearance to .060

If you don't already have one, add a "corvette" ratio servo. I'm not sure what a commodore got.

Transgo 7-cs spring kit...do NOT screw with the capsule in the input drum.
Drive a 2nd sun gear bushing in on top of the stock bushing (so there will be 2 stacked bushings) into the sun gear.

Install a new pump bushing

Adrian Aiello

Sweet ll just go 7 frictions then. Thats what the part shop quoted in the kit anyway

I'm surprised about the reinforcement sleeve. I though a lot of people used them but I'll take your advice. I completely understand what you mean about moving around the weak points

i got a new Corvette servo anyway. There is myth floating around they had them from factory but mine definitely did not

I'll follow the rest of your advice to. I remember a few people saying when you install the spring kit you have to alternate direction of installation to stop them falling over. That still the case

And in the transgo HD2 kit there is one peice I didn't use that I think involved drilling a piston and installing 2 plugs. The instructions were confusing for that. Should I do that?

MaroonMonsterLS1

Do NOT install those 2 plugs in the reverse piston.
Yes alternate up/down on the 7-cs springs
I would press out the shaft, cover the hell out of it with green loctite, and press back in. Support correctly when pressing

PBA

"I completely understand what you mean about moving around the weak points."
I disagree with this. You are eliminating a possible problem. I call this added insurance.
The sleeve when installed correctly will prevent the input shaft from breaking open the aluminum drum. It is rare to have one break open. However, these drums are being made out of cast aluminum. Use it if you have it. Yes, I told you to alternate the springs on spring installation, to keep them from leaning over. The hole sizes I recommended on the separator plate will be fine here, as long as you are using the Corvette servo. I use eight Borg Warner Hi-Energy clutches in all of my Heavy Duty and Street/Strip 700R4 kits and builds. Set the clutch clearance at .020" - .035", and the band clearance at the minimum. Use the Borg Warner Hi-Energy 2-4 band, as it is the best one out there in terms of durability, wear, and shift quality. Your drum must be flat in the area wear the band rides, or you will need a new oem drum. Use Teflon bushings in the pump, reverse input drum, extension housing, and the Sonnax extra wide bushing in the rear sun gear. Do not install the little restrictors in the reverse input piston. Leave it alone. This should help some.

vorteciroc

I also have not had any input-drum failures after using the Sonnax kit...

I however, do always:

-disassemble drum and shaft
-clean splines/ surfaces
-Magnaflux penetrating dye and X-ray parts
-apply thread locking compound or bearing retaining compound
-Install upgraded turbine-shaft or reinstall original
-Install collar with compound

Maroon Monster, I am not surprised to hear that failures do still happen after installation of the Sonnax collar.
I simply have not had one.

MaroonMonsterLS1

I just don't like that reinforcement ring. All it does is keep the spline area of the drum from splitting open...so it just moves the failure point to the "floor" of the drum.
I've seen plenty of guys have the drum fail there after they put that retaining ring on.

Just personal opinion there.

Adrian Aiello

From shift kit install to rebuild lol love used part's

The forward clutch packs were fried. One of the two over run clutch the sheered all its teeth off and had been free spinning which has damaged the overrun hub more parts and time 🤦‍♂️

PBA

With the Steel re-enforcement sleeve installed, where did you see the drum fail after that? I have never had a failure here with this, and none of my customers (as far as I know) have ever had a failure.

vorteciroc

I have not had a drum fail yet in any of my customers transmissions either...
However, I am not surprised to hear that the drums do still fail... The entire drum is the same aluminum alloy throughout...

From what Maroon Monsta said; it sounds like he finds the drum cracking closer to the area housing the 3-4 clutch piston, than the area where the turbine shaft splines into the drum.
Being the metallurgy is the same... areas of the drum close to the Sonnax collar as still vulnerable to cracking if stressed enough.
Oddly... I seem to run configurations that are most likely more violent than what Maroon Monster would do... and I do NOT have any failures with the Sonnax collar.

***NOTE: I always perform metallurgy analysis, the Maganaflux equivelent for aluminum, and X-ray all of the drums. I am very selective in terms of passing/ failing the drums and being suitable for use.***

PBA

I have heard and seen some come in where the sleeve was not installed correctly, back in the mid 1990's. The excess pressure on installing the sleeve cracked the drum or pushed it all the way through, from the drum not being supported the right way. When I started building kits, in around 1998, I changed the instructions (as they did not state how the drum should be supported correctly) to keep it from cracking or breaking the drum. No problems ever since I modified the installation instructions.

98CayenneT/A

Push down on this side of the input drum

98CayenneT/A

Support it with some kind of collar on the other side where the selective washer goes

Adrian Aiello

Ok I think I got it. You just press on the plate where the 3 check ***** are? I was worried about pressing on that and damaging whatever the checkballs are inside of. I realised by looking at a shaft there are splines at the end so must come out.

I've always been a visual learner so seeing is believing lol. Just those springs for 3/4 clutch pack I don't get. They look dead straight to me and ground flat the same on each side

Jays_SSZ28

iTrader: (2)

Oh boy ,another newbie rebuild thread. yay.

Given the questions asked about that sleeve, you really need to have a professional install it.

The 3-4 springs, they're the little ones. You're describing the forward return springs.

Adrian Aiello

Definitely a noob to transmissions but I am an experienced mechanic with 14 years experience. And a factory certified BMW and Mercedes technician. I've fitted supercharger and kitsturbo upgrades to AMG, BMW's and Audi and often service cylinder heads and time motors but I've been trained to do that and not trained to do this. Learning is doing not sending it to a shop and paying someone.

I only ask cause I would never press anything like a shaft out of an engine that had what looked like checkball capsule in the end ( frankly I never have to press anything out of an engine lol)

Im not thinking of the 5 3/4 clutch return springs on the side of the clutch packs. I was looking at the big round one in the center of the input shaft held in by a circlip.

There are 4 packs of springs in the transgo box. I found the pack that fit mine as per the picture in the vague instructions (type 3) and installed them. But like I said a few people said to alternate the taper but they all looked straight to me

I just rather ask the questions now then put a post up in a week or 2 saying how my new tranny doesn't work correctly

Jays_SSZ28

iTrader: (2)

Yea, that big round one is the forward clutch return spring assembly. There is one pack of those in the transgo kit. 14 springs.

The 3-4 springs are smaller and there are three different sets. There are 22 per set.

The five (actually 10) springs on the outside of the 3-4 clutch get thrown away.

I don't find the instructions to be vague, even the first transgo kit I installed 25 years ago, a 700 2&3 kit. I took it out of the box and went through the steps. I've never set foot in an automotive classroom.
I've grown up in an environment where I have been able to just figure things out because that's what I wanted to do.
It's not looking good when someone gets on here and says they build rockets, they're ASE master certified, they're an engineer, whatever. And don't understand these damn transgo instructions. I think it has more to do with internet availability than a persons ability (I like to hope that)
I bet if there was no internet you could do this with less trouble. Like the first transgo kit I installed, no internet. I put the 3-4 springs in and it worked fine.

The other side of the story is the countless threads like this that I have seen on the internet, forum help is there, the pros are there, the end result is the trans don't work right.

Look on here for the basement build or whatever it is. End of a hard day, lets pose with our favorite craft beer, label facing the camera, proud guy. 50 pages later can't figure it out it just don't work I'll have a shop sell me one.

Just please don't be that guy.

Jays_SSZ28

iTrader: (2)

Do you think it's a good idea to reinstall those stock return springs even though the kit tells you not to? You're installing stiffer springs from the kit in the clutch with the most problems and on top of that you think it's a good idea to add more resistance to it applying?
If you don't want the build to have problems don't create your own instructions.
Speaking of instructions, what comes in the kit is like what comes with a Lego set? Yea, installing this kit is about as easy as building a Lego house.

But I know, I work with people. Some people must want to make themselves and what they're doing seem way more complicated than it actually is. I guess at the end of the day they want to feel like they did something that no one else can do. For this reason I guess TransGo should rewrite the instructions so they're way overcomplicated. I'm not sure how they would do that, how much explanation is needed to "remove the old springs and install these" or "drill the holes in the seperator plate to this size in these locations" How much easier could it be? "remove this valve and spring and replace it with the one from the kit" ???????????????????????? You can throw out an example if you want, like how would you write the instructions for changing the boost valve in the pump.

You could buy a GM hydramatic manual. Not the worthless ATSG ****, buy the real manual. Transgo kit says change the springs, refer to the Hydramatic book to change the springs, etc.

Just curious, how did you compress the spring retainer to remove the circlip?
How are you going to install the rings on the input shaft? Transgo instructions don't have that information.
How are you going to replace the bushings? You need a 4L60 specific driver kit.

From what has been said you are rebuilding a transmission and the only instructions you have are for a shift kit. The shift kit instructions are shitty, I guess they're better than the nothing you have for the transmission.

Adrian Aiello

I don't have manuals to half the cars I work unless at that time I'm working for that particular dealer. You can rebuild anything with patience and a few YouTube videos lol.

Now for not following the instructions to a t. Isn't that the same as being told not to mess the capsule that came in 7cs kit like instructions tell you to do. Or don't follow the transgo drill size chart and make a few bigger. Or don't install the shims in the accumulator with cause harsh 1-2 shift. Or don't mess with reverse piston holes. Seems like a lot of advice I got off respected members tell you not to follow instructions.

Anyway mate I'm here for help and advice not criticism. Lots of other posts you can waste your time on if you don't like mine. But please if you ever need advice or repair instructions on a BMW or Mercedes feel free to shoot me a PM. And just to entertain you this is how I did the following.

For Teflon bushes I made a sleeve out of aluminium can that fits over shaft and compress with hose clamps

Spring retainer I used a couple lengths of tube supported by cross brace and put on the hydraulic shop press. Circlips are a little **** to get off but doable

I have a universal bearing/press kit with a variety of sleeve sizes that I use to push in the new bushes. Only done pump, reverse drum so far but no issues

vorteciroc

I do not want what I am saying to sound like an insult.
I am sorry if it does. That is not my intention.

In regard to your comparison of the TransGo instructions that you have and the instructions that you are accustomed to for BMW or Diamler-Benz or whomever...

Instructions produced currently, especially for new vehicle dealership repair; are a complete and utter joke! I find the entire notion to be absolutely disgusting.
This all stems from the massive stereotype that automotive technicians (mechanics) are idiots!

I used to be a field engineer for General Motors. Part or my responsibilities consisted of traveling to dealerships to assist technicians whom could not solve an issue with a vehicle.
While performing my job; I would see all of the repair instructions for the technicians to perform their diagnosis and complete needed repairs.
You call this type of compiled instructions "thorough". I call it "completely spelled out for an idiot", step by step... so a 4 year old could figure things out and repair a vehicle.
The instructions are so thorough, that they are insulting!
The only reason these instructions got to be like this; is because these companies like GM feel that the technicians are thoughtless fools with no common sense.
It truly blows my mind and pisses me off!

I am happy with the manner in which TransGo produces their instructions (I actually feel that the transgo instructions are very easily understood and just not made for a kindergardener).
I do not feel that a person whom can not understand the instructions should be repairing an automatic transmission.

vorteciroc

Just to be clear...

I was not calling you an idiot.
You understood the transgo instructions.

As I said in my last post... I am not trying to be insulting.

I was simply stating that: I hate that automotive technicians are thought of as idiots (a **** stereotype).
For example; the way GM produces their diagnostic trouble trees, and create their repair instructions just prove that "mechanics" are thought to be a bunch of easily replaceable fools.
The fact that people in general believe "mechanics" to have no common sense...
To have no skills, and could be compared to a guy that is only intelligent enough to mop a floor (and poorly at best).

This stereotype is what pisses me off! ...not you.