There's the problem. My ex GF was half Italian and NEVER wrong lol. 
4l60e shift kit install advice
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 54
Likes: 4
From: Sydney, Australia
Thanks for examples, definitely can see little things like that cause big problems. I'm confident I didn't make any mistakes but even seasoned builders make mistakes so obviously I can to but I was pretty careful.
The box doesn't slip and shifts very nice except for intermittent flare which happens less often then the normal shift. If I had made I mistake like those the pictures problem should be constant right?
Anyway I will update after some more tests. Would like to post a fix rather then leaving thread unresolved so can hopefully help any other amateur builders
P.s.
Don't hate you I'm half Italian so just hate being wrong and love to argue
What about the boost valve? If I swap from a transgo to o-ring sonnax could that help with low line pressure?
The box doesn't slip and shifts very nice except for intermittent flare which happens less often then the normal shift. If I had made I mistake like those the pictures problem should be constant right?
Anyway I will update after some more tests. Would like to post a fix rather then leaving thread unresolved so can hopefully help any other amateur builders
P.s.
Don't hate you I'm half Italian so just hate being wrong and love to argue
What about the boost valve? If I swap from a transgo to o-ring sonnax could that help with low line pressure?
Last edited by Adrian Aiello; Mar 12, 2020 at 06:37 PM.
I doubt it, I've never seen a need for o-rings there. Maybe if it had 300,000 miles on it. The 4L80E boost valve IS a problem though, I had one wear out in 30,000 miles.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 1,391
From: Nitro Alley
The O-Ringed boost valve/ sleeve assemblies were created for the THM700-R4 transmissions originally.
These units used steel valves in an aluminum pump ...and there would be a good amount of wear and tear, when the mileage hot high...
O-Ringed boost valve/ sleeve assemblies actually could be helpful in that situation.
The early 4L60E units also had steel valves in an aluminum pump...
However; as GM updated and upgraded these units over the years...
They changed to aluminum/ hard anodized aluminum valves, which cut down the amount of wear and tear.
I really do not see the need for O-Ring replacement parts in the late 4L60E units.
Sonnax is just trying to sell these parts on the reputation that they were helpful back in the THM700-R4 days.
These units used steel valves in an aluminum pump ...and there would be a good amount of wear and tear, when the mileage hot high...
O-Ringed boost valve/ sleeve assemblies actually could be helpful in that situation.
The early 4L60E units also had steel valves in an aluminum pump...
However; as GM updated and upgraded these units over the years...
They changed to aluminum/ hard anodized aluminum valves, which cut down the amount of wear and tear.
I really do not see the need for O-Ring replacement parts in the late 4L60E units.
Sonnax is just trying to sell these parts on the reputation that they were helpful back in the THM700-R4 days.
Last edited by vorteciroc; Mar 13, 2020 at 09:20 PM.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 54
Likes: 4
From: Sydney, Australia
Car is FIXED 😀
Dropped valve body out today and shrunk that band release hole. It was I'm guessing around .100 to .105 (2.5mm drill bit was loose in hole). Shrunk her down to .093
Also swapped the EPC out of my original and gave it 1/6 turn inwards for safe measure
At operating temp idle psi
N 60
D 85
R 120
Light throttle
1 90
2 110
3 130
With little more throttle to keep revs over 3000rpm its hanging around 150 up to 180
Didn't try WOT unfortunately cause it raining/cold and I'm driving on Toyo r888r so not a good idea lol but no more flare 👍
Thanks to everybody for help, suggestions and banter. I knew nothing about 4l60e before I started and now I feel comfortable building another one if I have to.
p.s. I know pressure is a little on high side at idle so when I drop pan again I will wind out that EPC to stock again
Dropped valve body out today and shrunk that band release hole. It was I'm guessing around .100 to .105 (2.5mm drill bit was loose in hole). Shrunk her down to .093
Also swapped the EPC out of my original and gave it 1/6 turn inwards for safe measure
At operating temp idle psi
N 60
D 85
R 120
Light throttle
1 90
2 110
3 130
With little more throttle to keep revs over 3000rpm its hanging around 150 up to 180
Didn't try WOT unfortunately cause it raining/cold and I'm driving on Toyo r888r so not a good idea lol but no more flare 👍
Thanks to everybody for help, suggestions and banter. I knew nothing about 4l60e before I started and now I feel comfortable building another one if I have to.
p.s. I know pressure is a little on high side at idle so when I drop pan again I will wind out that EPC to stock again
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 1,391
From: Nitro Alley
Car is FIXED 😀
Dropped valve body out today and shrunk that band release hole. It was I'm guessing around .100 to .105 (2.5mm drill bit was loose in hole). Shrunk her down to .093
Also swapped the EPC out of my original and gave it 1/6 turn inwards for safe measure
At operating temp idle psi
N 60
D 85
R 120
Light throttle
1 90
2 110
3 130
With little more throttle to keep revs over 3000rpm its hanging around 150 up to 180
Didn't try WOT unfortunately cause it raining/cold and I'm driving on Toyo r888r so not a good idea lol but no more flare 👍
Thanks to everybody for help, suggestions and banter. I knew nothing about 4l60e before I started and now I feel comfortable building another one if I have to.
p.s. I know pressure is a little on high side at idle so when I drop pan again I will wind out that EPC to stock again
Dropped valve body out today and shrunk that band release hole. It was I'm guessing around .100 to .105 (2.5mm drill bit was loose in hole). Shrunk her down to .093
Also swapped the EPC out of my original and gave it 1/6 turn inwards for safe measure
At operating temp idle psi
N 60
D 85
R 120
Light throttle
1 90
2 110
3 130
With little more throttle to keep revs over 3000rpm its hanging around 150 up to 180
Didn't try WOT unfortunately cause it raining/cold and I'm driving on Toyo r888r so not a good idea lol but no more flare 👍
Thanks to everybody for help, suggestions and banter. I knew nothing about 4l60e before I started and now I feel comfortable building another one if I have to.
p.s. I know pressure is a little on high side at idle so when I drop pan again I will wind out that EPC to stock again
I would still like to see what the Wide-Open-Throttle line pressures look like.
After you are able to measure the WOT line pressure in the forward gear ranges...
Should the reading be between 220psi and 240psi; keep things as they are.
If the line pressure goes over 250psi, I would undo the adjustment to the electronic pressure control solenoid back to stock.
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TECH Resident
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 969
Likes: 119
You should have kept the original EPC solenoid that you knew what the pressures were, and then made the adjustment to that solenoid. Now you changed solenoids. Then you should have ran that solenoid and checked the pressure on it first before making any changes to the solenoid, because it might have been right on. Reducing the band release hole from .104" to .093" is a major change here. Going to .099" would have been much better. However, since you have both sets of springs in the input drum (TransGo and oem) for keeping the 3-4 clutches off. You might get away with not having a band/clutch tie up, from having the band release somewhat slower. Get the pressures to 235 - 240 psi. at WOT. Then you should be fine.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 54
Likes: 4
From: Sydney, Australia
Yer I should of tried one thing at a time but I work full time. Run my own mobile mechanic business on weekends (service, brakes, scan engine light type of thing) and 2 kids under 5. Opportunities to work on the car are few and far inbetween lol
I feel changing the band release definitely helped the 2/3 shift but there must of been something wrong with that EPC. The pressure difference when holding revs above 3000 rpm is very different. Was only 90 to 120 across 1, 2, and 3 but now holds over 150psi across all 3 gears
Anyway I want to put atleast 500km on it and continue to monitor before I do anything else to it. Don't like going WOT on new clutches. When I worked at a performance shop we had a technician upgrade Mercedes Benz 722.9 boxes to handle superchargers etc and saw to many fail because customers thrashed new boxes straight after rebuilds
I feel changing the band release definitely helped the 2/3 shift but there must of been something wrong with that EPC. The pressure difference when holding revs above 3000 rpm is very different. Was only 90 to 120 across 1, 2, and 3 but now holds over 150psi across all 3 gears
Anyway I want to put atleast 500km on it and continue to monitor before I do anything else to it. Don't like going WOT on new clutches. When I worked at a performance shop we had a technician upgrade Mercedes Benz 722.9 boxes to handle superchargers etc and saw to many fail because customers thrashed new boxes straight after rebuilds
Yer I should of tried one thing at a time but I work full time. Run my own mobile mechanic business on weekends (service, brakes, scan engine light type of thing) and 2 kids under 5. Opportunities to work on the car are few and far inbetween lol
I feel changing the band release definitely helped the 2/3 shift but there must of been something wrong with that EPC. The pressure difference when holding revs above 3000 rpm is very different. Was only 90 to 120 across 1, 2, and 3 but now holds over 150psi across all 3 gears
Anyway I want to put atleast 500km on it and continue to monitor before I do anything else to it. Don't like going WOT on new clutches. When I worked at a performance shop we had a technician upgrade Mercedes Benz 722.9 boxes to handle superchargers etc and saw to many fail because customers thrashed new boxes straight after rebuilds
I feel changing the band release definitely helped the 2/3 shift but there must of been something wrong with that EPC. The pressure difference when holding revs above 3000 rpm is very different. Was only 90 to 120 across 1, 2, and 3 but now holds over 150psi across all 3 gears
Anyway I want to put atleast 500km on it and continue to monitor before I do anything else to it. Don't like going WOT on new clutches. When I worked at a performance shop we had a technician upgrade Mercedes Benz 722.9 boxes to handle superchargers etc and saw to many fail because customers thrashed new boxes straight after rebuilds
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 1,391
From: Nitro Alley
722.6 ...The old Diamler-Chrysler 5 speed transmission, from about 20 years ago that had 2 speeds in reverse?
Jay are you really messing around with one of these?
I do not know how the transmission was optioned in the charger, but in most of the Mercedes vehicles...
Electronic switches/ settings were present to allow the trans to feel/ shift like an AMG high performance unit or just the way grandma would want it...
With setting also in between the two.
Your unit may be on it's way out if it feels like complete mush... But you know this already.
Hit up one of the Dodge or Benz sites and search up the 5G-Tronic.
Jay are you really messing around with one of these?
I do not know how the transmission was optioned in the charger, but in most of the Mercedes vehicles...
Electronic switches/ settings were present to allow the trans to feel/ shift like an AMG high performance unit or just the way grandma would want it...
With setting also in between the two.
Your unit may be on it's way out if it feels like complete mush... But you know this already.
Hit up one of the Dodge or Benz sites and search up the 5G-Tronic.
722.6 ...The old Diamler-Chrysler 5 speed transmission, from about 20 years ago that had 2 speeds in reverse?
Jay are you really messing around with one of these?
I do not know how the transmission was optioned in the charger, but in most of the Mercedes vehicles...
Electronic switches/ settings were present to allow the trans to feel/ shift like an AMG high performance unit or just the way grandma would want it...
With setting also in between the two.
Your unit may be on it's way out if it feels like complete mush... But you know this already.
Hit up one of the Dodge or Benz sites and search up the 5G-Tronic.
Jay are you really messing around with one of these?
I do not know how the transmission was optioned in the charger, but in most of the Mercedes vehicles...
Electronic switches/ settings were present to allow the trans to feel/ shift like an AMG high performance unit or just the way grandma would want it...
With setting also in between the two.
Your unit may be on it's way out if it feels like complete mush... But you know this already.
Hit up one of the Dodge or Benz sites and search up the 5G-Tronic.
I have a 2006 magnum and it shifts ok after some tcm tuning, but the 2009 charger didn't respond the same, it has a different tcm. If I reset the adaptives it'll shift ok, the thing is it adapts back to granny mode. There is no switch.
What I find interesting is the factory service manual instructions for testing the operation. It says reset the adaptives and take a test drive driving moderately hard letting it shift through all 5 gears AND do this 20-30 times. If it shifts good with no slippage everything is ok.
They call it the NAG1 in Dodges, or the W5A580. It is made by Mercedes but it's not the same as one put in a Mercedes. I've read a lot about it, and everyone complains about it being slow and lazy feeling. And the built ones are big money. No one that knows anything about these shares it online.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 54
Likes: 4
From: Sydney, Australia
All I know from training is that the transmission are basically all the same but depending what engine it was behind was rated for different torque. The weakest box was obviously for 4cylinder then V6 and I think V8s and deisal. AMG would of had the best but like I said they were interchangeable from what I've been explained.
I would suggest trying to find the difference in parts between yours and what would be in say a supercharged V8 AMG and upgrading to those parts. Most of the performance gains would be through a reputable tune though. We never used to reset adaption if it had hard shifts at it usually just made them worse without a rebuild or repair
Most of my experience is with 7 speeds not 5 but I did witness a lot of rebuild in my early years at Mercedes benz.
we don't consider the early Mercs very performance orientated and only work with 63 series and newer which mainly have 7 speeds and people love to modify them
Lost count of how many valve body and electrical plates I replaced in 7 speeds
I would suggest trying to find the difference in parts between yours and what would be in say a supercharged V8 AMG and upgrading to those parts. Most of the performance gains would be through a reputable tune though. We never used to reset adaption if it had hard shifts at it usually just made them worse without a rebuild or repair
Most of my experience is with 7 speeds not 5 but I did witness a lot of rebuild in my early years at Mercedes benz.
we don't consider the early Mercs very performance orientated and only work with 63 series and newer which mainly have 7 speeds and people love to modify them
Lost count of how many valve body and electrical plates I replaced in 7 speeds
This is because the HD2 kit is a shift kit and most people are going to install it in a running transmission. Those who are installing it during a rebuild need to get their instructions for rebuilding transmissions from another source (other than a shift kit manufacturer)
Edit: you did miss it. It shows how to make sure it's within a range of not to tight and not too loose. Which it should already be if it was running.
Edit: you did miss it. It shows how to make sure it's within a range of not to tight and not too loose. Which it should already be if it was running.
Banned
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 90
Likes: 8
Just about every one of these kits I have installed in a used transmission or a rebuild two gold shims is just barely too tight. So you take one out. A gold shim is .060 thick. See what I'm getting at here? +add .120 and it's too much, take .060 away leaving .060 clearance+
Like was said, if it was installed in a running transmission it's not going to be that far off. It says to add 2 gold shims (to tighten up band clearance) and see if you can turn the output by hand. Is that not simple enough?
Just about every one of these kits I have installed in a used transmission or a rebuild two gold shims is just barely too tight. So you take one out. A gold shim is .060 thick. See what I'm getting at here? +add .120 and it's too much, take .060 away leaving .060 clearance+
Just about every one of these kits I have installed in a used transmission or a rebuild two gold shims is just barely too tight. So you take one out. A gold shim is .060 thick. See what I'm getting at here? +add .120 and it's too much, take .060 away leaving .060 clearance+
Banned
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 90
Likes: 8
Not sure where you get that if it was installed in a running transmission it’s not that far off? I installed two gold shims and still had too much clearance. I ended up having to order a longer servo pin to get the clearance right. My transmission was fine before the install but I wanted a quicker shift.