4l60e shift kit install advice
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 54
Likes: 4
From: Sydney, Australia
Last edited by Adrian Aiello; Feb 27, 2020 at 03:19 PM.
TECH Resident
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 969
Likes: 119
I am not a fan (a word that I hate) of the capsule being removed. When using the feed holes I recommend, I have never had a problem with the capsule. If you go over 7,500 rpm, then there is a better way of doing this. I can explain what I do if you need to know for going over 7,500 rpm. The TransGo bleed off orifice they supply does not remove all of the oil that can accidentally bring on the 3-4 clutches at hi-rpm in the top of first or second gears. Leave in the capsule. Just make sure that the ball seats in the capsule.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,618
Likes: 1,328
From: Iowa
I'm with PBA
If you are going to change the capsule, superior K070 is the way to go
Here's a couple things to do to avoid centrifugal apply
Transgo 7-cs spring kit
DO use the 5 batwing springs around the 3/4's
If you really want to, you can put a 4r70 direct steel on top of the spring retainer to add some additional preload. I've only found that helpful in very high RPM setups
If you are going to change the capsule, superior K070 is the way to go
Here's a couple things to do to avoid centrifugal apply
Transgo 7-cs spring kit
DO use the 5 batwing springs around the 3/4's
If you really want to, you can put a 4r70 direct steel on top of the spring retainer to add some additional preload. I've only found that helpful in very high RPM setups
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 54
Likes: 4
From: Sydney, Australia
Hey guys I've put the transmission in the car and put 100km on it so far. Drives great so thank you all for your input and advice. I know it turned from a shift kit install into a rebuild so I appreciate all the help.
Only problem I have with the build so far is intermittent flare or bind up maybe on the 2-3 upshift under light to medium throttle. Very random but when it happens i can see rpm jump maybe 200 RPM on tacho.
Noticed the servo cover has a little bit more travel then specified. Can I throw a transgo shim in it or should I buy a new pin? I'm sure 1 shim will get it to spec.
Anything else I can try if problem still present after I adjust pin travel?
Oh I should mention at light throttle the 2-3 shift is smooth and barely noticeable and under heavier throttle it's quick and crisp. I haven't WOT yet cause obviously it's a fresh build. I've Also tried driving with fluid slightly over full level with no difference
Only problem I have with the build so far is intermittent flare or bind up maybe on the 2-3 upshift under light to medium throttle. Very random but when it happens i can see rpm jump maybe 200 RPM on tacho.
Noticed the servo cover has a little bit more travel then specified. Can I throw a transgo shim in it or should I buy a new pin? I'm sure 1 shim will get it to spec.
Anything else I can try if problem still present after I adjust pin travel?
Oh I should mention at light throttle the 2-3 shift is smooth and barely noticeable and under heavier throttle it's quick and crisp. I haven't WOT yet cause obviously it's a fresh build. I've Also tried driving with fluid slightly over full level with no difference
Last edited by Adrian Aiello; Feb 27, 2020 at 03:42 PM.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 54
Likes: 4
From: Sydney, Australia
took out the superior 4th piston and billet cover out and put stock back in as shims don't work with the big piston. Had to put both shims in and pin still just out of spec so guess I will be buying a new pin to get that clearance closer to the .060
Am I on the right track? Would this would the small flare up. Still would appreciate any input on anything else I should check that would cause that random little flare. Could it be in the tune?
Am I on the right track? Would this would the small flare up. Still would appreciate any input on anything else I should check that would cause that random little flare. Could it be in the tune?
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 54
Likes: 4
From: Sydney, Australia
I'm sure you got a few spares from all the ones you threw over the shoulder
I actually opened up my original box already. Only damage was burnt band + drum and a well worn seperator plate. The 3/4 clutch was still alive after all the abuse and that had the clutch return springs fitted 😉
I actually opened up my original box already. Only damage was burnt band + drum and a well worn seperator plate. The 3/4 clutch was still alive after all the abuse and that had the clutch return springs fitted 😉
An adjustment/calibration problem should be consistent, an intermittent problem is not a good sign. Intermittent usually gets worse.
Just keep driving it, you built it right thanks to the step by step instructions provided here. What could possibly be wrong.........
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Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 54
Likes: 4
From: Sydney, Australia
It's consistent if I get the throttle and load under the same condition every time but not every shift happens under the exact same condition
Just need some advice on things to check not get trolled. If box has to come out to fix something it's a lesson learned but personally I think it could be the servo clearance or feed hole problem.
I'm confident I did a good job on the internals. All seals and clutches felt nice and air tested all good
I though maybe even the tune and shift adaptation might be out since I drove car around for like 6 weeks with no 2nd gear
Just need some advice on things to check not get trolled. If box has to come out to fix something it's a lesson learned but personally I think it could be the servo clearance or feed hole problem.
I'm confident I did a good job on the internals. All seals and clutches felt nice and air tested all good
I though maybe even the tune and shift adaptation might be out since I drove car around for like 6 weeks with no 2nd gear
It's consistent if I get the throttle and load under the same condition every time but not every shift happens under the exact same condition
Just need some advice on things to check not get trolled. If box has to come out to fix something it's a lesson learned but personally I think it could be the servo clearance or feed hole problem.
I'm confident I did a good job on the internals. All seals and clutches felt nice and air tested all good
I though maybe even the tune and shift adaptation might be out since I drove car around for like 6 weeks with no 2nd gear
Just need some advice on things to check not get trolled. If box has to come out to fix something it's a lesson learned but personally I think it could be the servo clearance or feed hole problem.
I'm confident I did a good job on the internals. All seals and clutches felt nice and air tested all good
I though maybe even the tune and shift adaptation might be out since I drove car around for like 6 weeks with no 2nd gear
Ok I'll tell you. A flare on the 2-3 is the band releasing too soon OR the 3-4 applying to slow/late.
So you need to get the band to release sooner.faster and/or the 3-4 to apply sooner/faster.
How do you make all that happen? You make the band (servo) hole smaller, and/or make the band clearance bigger, and/or make the 3rd apply bigger, and/or tighten the clearance on the 3-4 clutch. This is ASSUMING everything is built properly. Do a pressure check, this will tell you if it's fucked up or needs a calibration change like mentioned above.
I don't know if a commodore has shift adaptives but you should under no circumstances be driving it without those being reset, that's like putting the old fluid back in it.
Last edited by Jays_SSZ28; Feb 28, 2020 at 10:25 AM.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 54
Likes: 4
From: Sydney, Australia
You say it jumps 200 on the taco. Thats actually quite a flare on a new build. So what have you learned through all this?
Ok I'll tell you. A flare on the 2-3 is the band releasing too soon OR the 3-4 applying to slow/late.
So you need to get the band to release sooner.faster and/or the 3-4 to apply sooner/faster.
How do you make all that happen? You make the band (servo) hole smaller, and/or make the band clearance bigger, and/or make the 3rd apply bigger, and/or tighten the clearance on the 3-4 clutch. This is ASSUMING everything is built properly. Do a pressure check, this will tell you if it's fucked up or needs a calibration change like mentioned above.
I don't know if a commodore has shift adaptives but you should under no circumstances be driving it without those being reset, that's like putting the old fluid back in it.
Ok I'll tell you. A flare on the 2-3 is the band releasing too soon OR the 3-4 applying to slow/late.
So you need to get the band to release sooner.faster and/or the 3-4 to apply sooner/faster.
How do you make all that happen? You make the band (servo) hole smaller, and/or make the band clearance bigger, and/or make the 3rd apply bigger, and/or tighten the clearance on the 3-4 clutch. This is ASSUMING everything is built properly. Do a pressure check, this will tell you if it's fucked up or needs a calibration change like mentioned above.
I don't know if a commodore has shift adaptives but you should under no circumstances be driving it without those being reset, that's like putting the old fluid back in it.
I will try make band release hole smaller
I remember PBA mentioning in a few posts that tightening the servo pin clearance actually increases the speed of 2-3 hydraulic apply works.
when you say make band clearance bigger isnt that the opposite. I thought that would cause the band to release slower and 2-3 clutch to apply slower simultaneously
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,618
Likes: 1,328
From: Iowa
I still can't figure out what you don't like about these "batwing" springs in the drum
The stiffer transgo springs help resist centrifugal apply, and return the piston when the 3/4's are off...the 5 perimeter springs help the apply plate move away from the pressure plate. Ensuring that the clutches don't drag
Also, we could get into the dynamics of fluid fill vs pressure vs piston travel but I think that's a little out of the scope of this thread.
I see those 5 springs as possibly helping, definitely not hurting, so why not
The stiffer transgo springs help resist centrifugal apply, and return the piston when the 3/4's are off...the 5 perimeter springs help the apply plate move away from the pressure plate. Ensuring that the clutches don't drag
Also, we could get into the dynamics of fluid fill vs pressure vs piston travel but I think that's a little out of the scope of this thread.
I see those 5 springs as possibly helping, definitely not hurting, so why not
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 54
Likes: 4
From: Sydney, Australia
I still can't figure out what you don't like about these "batwing" springs in the drum
The stiffer transgo springs help resist centrifugal apply, and return the piston when the 3/4's are off...the 5 perimeter springs help the apply plate move away from the pressure plate. Ensuring that the clutches don't drag
Also, we could get into the dynamics of fluid fill vs pressure vs piston travel but I think that's a little out of the scope of this thread.
I see those 5 springs as possibly helping, definitely not hurting, so why not
The stiffer transgo springs help resist centrifugal apply, and return the piston when the 3/4's are off...the 5 perimeter springs help the apply plate move away from the pressure plate. Ensuring that the clutches don't drag
Also, we could get into the dynamics of fluid fill vs pressure vs piston travel but I think that's a little out of the scope of this thread.
I see those 5 springs as possibly helping, definitely not hurting, so why not
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,618
Likes: 1,328
From: Iowa
Remind me again of the following.
- 2-3 feed hole size
- band clearance
- 3/4 clutch clearance
- what ratio servo for the 2nd gear portion (vette?)
- any mods to the servo accumulator area? Slots in the steel cover, additional spring in there, etc
- Have you verified fluid level
- Have you checked line pressure
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 54
Likes: 4
From: Sydney, Australia
Remind me again of the following.
- 2-3 feed hole size
- band clearance
- 3/4 clutch clearance
- what ratio servo for the 2nd gear portion (vette?)
- any mods to the servo accumulator area? Slots in the steel cover, additional spring in there, etc
- Have you verified fluid level
- Have you checked line pressure
Frebuild kit
-all borg Warner frictions and band
-hd2 kit and spring kit ( installed everything except valve in input drum and didn't modify the piston in reverse drum but everything else done as per instructions)
-transgo seperator plate and torlon check *****
-sonnax hd 2-3 shift valve
-checkball capsule in case replaced
-removed checkball from rear capsule in case
-corvette servo with modified spring retainer as per PBA instructions. Installed springs from HD2 kit in servo
-stock 4th servo and cover
-4th accumulator blocked with checkball
-2nd accumulator modified as per PBA instructions
-3-2 valve blocked inboard
-r&r input shaft and sealed with Loctite
-rebuild pump and installed transgo high rev kit and transgo boost valve
-new sprags HD
-sleeve reinforcement kit on input drum
Seperator plate drilled as per hd2 kit except
1-2 .098 (9" stall converter)
2-3 .137
3-4 .137
Band .098
3-2 .117
Band clearance is over spec .150 ( I'm waiting for a sonnax long pin to be delivered from another state)
3/4 clutch pack clearance was about .030 wet from memory ( I've been looking for the paper I wrote down the clearances on)
Fluid level good, I overfilled a bit and problem still there
Haven't checked line pressure. Need to buy a gauge still.
Last edited by Adrian Aiello; Feb 28, 2020 at 05:04 PM.
I had a 2-3 bind up problem once that I never figured out, Dana at probuilt had no definitive answer after a 1+ hour phone conversation, transgo couldn't help either. Maybe I was reliving that nightmare.
You know this subconsciously because you caught it when I said increase band clearance.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 54
Likes: 4
From: Sydney, Australia
Clearance was tighter with the superior 4th piston and cover but still above spec. I tried to put shim but discovered they don't work with the bigger pistons so tried stock cover with Shims but still out of spec. Might try welding a blob on spare pin just to test the theory
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,618
Likes: 1,328
From: Iowa
Welding a blob and grinding to fit is the best way.
Very rarely do I have a stock pin get band clearance right where I want it.
I'm welding and grinding the pin on almost every build...even stock stuff.
Very rarely do I have a stock pin get band clearance right where I want it.
I'm welding and grinding the pin on almost every build...even stock stuff.