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Whats up dudes? Here is what i have going on. Maybe you can solve this problem:
4L80E relevant information:
-Sonnax 34006-SPB. right now with no rear shim under the case bearing.
-.041 shim under the sun gear bearing
-ckperformance white plastic rear planet washer
.010 rear endplay
-Sonnax 34322-02k forward clutch hub with bearing
-with no pump shim, and a gasket, i am getting .035 front endplay. My shim is .091, so when i put it in, it wouldnt let the pump seat all the way.
My questions are:
1. what effect on both front and rear endplay is realized from changing the shim under the sun gear? I am getting conflicting information.
The forward endplay goes from the input shaft, through the OD carrier, into the bearing on top of the fwd drum.
That carries thrust into the FWD hub which sends thrust straight to the bearing that sits UNDER the internal ring gear (between internal ring gear and output shaft)
Then thrust is passed through output shaft and into the case thrust washer/bearing.
Changing the shim under the sun gear bearing will change the endplay between the direct drum and the fwd hub because it will space the direct drum up or down.
You can check front endplay without the direct drum even in the trans. This is what I would do.
I would assemble up to the center support, then install the fwd hub onto the mainshaft. Then set the fwd clutch drum on top of the fwd hub. and assemble the rest as normal.
If you do it this way and endplay is OK, then you know that the shim under sun gear bearing is too thick and actually spacing the direct drum up towards the pump enough that it is lifting the fwd hub off the main shaft stop.
The transmission should be divided into 4 or 5 sections for end play.
-The rear section.
-Reaction carrier float.
-Forward hub -OR- with rollerized center support: Direct drum to center support and Direct drum to Forward hub.
-Input section.
In regards to a shim under the sun-gear bearing... I do not see why you would...
Instead of stacking the rear section like this:
Stack the rear section like this:
The shims and bearing/ selective thrust washer at the end of the case is all that is needed to set rear end play.
Follow this link for the other sections, and post questions if you have any. LINK
Last edited by vorteciroc; Apr 6, 2020 at 11:07 PM.
Thanks gents i will check these resources out. Turns out i have a couple new pieces of information. My method of checking rear endplay had the transmission on its side. I actually had more endplay than i thought. I threw a .010 shim under the case bearing and now i am at .004-.005.
i also think i need to hone the front pump bearing to give more room between the input shaft and the front pump bushing. When the pump is seated all the way i have .004 front clearance. My plan is to shave down .003 of the plastic thrust washer on the pump side. Is this acceptable?
Also, the .041 shim under the sun gear came factory in 99 and up 4l80 because of a design change on the sun gear shaft. This is why i put it back in.
Last edited by 376shovel; Apr 7, 2020 at 09:22 AM.
Thanks gents i will check these resources out.
Also, the .041 shim under the sun gear came factory in 99 and up 4l80 because of a design change on the sun gear shaft. This is why i put it back in.
Most welcome.
Yes you need that shim!
I miss understood you.
I thought you were adding another shim/ more shims in that location.
My apologies.
i also think i need to hone the front pump bearing to give more room between the input shaft and the front pump bushing. When the pump is seated all the way i have .004 front clearance. My plan is to shave down .003 of the plastic thrust washer on the pump side. Is this acceptable?
Wait...
Are you talking about the stator support front bushing? Meaning the turbine-shaft wont turn in the bushing?
Note: That bushing should be snug, as it seals TCC release fluid, but free enough to let the turbine-shaft spin.
Or are you talking about the plastic selective thrust washer under the pump only?
Or are you talking about both?
Yes you need that shim!
I miss understood you.
I thought you were adding another shim/ more shims in that location.
My apologies.
No worries. Sonnax is sending me another hub with .010 milled off the back washer surface (facing upward). They want me to measure endplay with that and the OE hub too.
that being said is it ok to sand down the plastic pump washer a hair?
Are you talking about the stator support front bushing? Meaning the turbine-shaft wont turn in the bushing?
Note: That bushing should be snug, as it seals TCC release fluid, but free enough to let the turbine-shaft spin.
Or are you talking about the plastic selective thrust washer under the pump only?
Or are you talking about both?
i was talking about both. Im tracking there needs ro be .002 clearance between the input shaft and that bearing, per sonnax. As of right now if i want to lift the pump out, the input dhaft and OD carrier want to come with it. I have to pry up on the pump and tap the input shaft with a rubber mallet to get it out. I think it's a little tight?
so its ok to sand the plastic washer? Yes, wet sand it over a sheet of glass.
also, is it normal to have to seperate the input shaft from the pump every time you take it out? No, as I said in the last post, clearance it 0.0015" - 0.002", or replace it.
i shaved off a few thou from the plastic pump shim.
please confirm i am checking clearance correctly. I am putting downward pressure on the input shaft, while i pry up from the bottom of the rear planets. I get between .007 and .008 front endplay now. Does this look like i am doing it right?
Does this look right? I dunno... this feels like the play at the snap ring.
Edit: ok i see now you mean push up on the back WHILE you are doing this. I am going to use my screwdriver to pry up. So basically just do what i did in my first attempt at a video, THEN check for input shaft play. Looks like ive got some work to do tonight.
someone should make a no **** actual video on this. Im very surprised it's not out there already. The transmission bench video doesnt go into checking these clearances.
Last edited by 376shovel; Apr 8, 2020 at 01:20 PM.
Im pretty disappointed now. I tried the sonnax hub with the. 090 shim (that is now .087 after sanding)
i tried the new sonnax hub with .010 cut off the back end.
and i tried the new sonnax hub with the .090 shim removed from the pump.
i get the same readings. I am sure i am doing something wrong. I dont know what though. Does anyone know of a good front endplay video? I am prying up on the rear planets with a screwdriver and pulling up on the input shaft. I keep getting the clunk of the snap ring on the input shaft and the same .034ish reading with every setup. I'm super lost at this point.
pull harder.
You have to lift the whole input carrier setup off its bearing...its not light.
That .034 is likely the snap ring slop. Pull until you get that reading...then 0 your dial indicator...then pull harder
i pulled so hard i lifted the transmission. No change. Could it be bearings too tight around the input shaft, preventing it from moving up smoothly? Its just a clunk up or down. Almost like a switch on, and off.
But there must be something on YouTube showing 4L80E end-play measurements...
Or a THM400... Or some other automatic transmission...
Sorry, I was injured yesterday in a "dropped an Alison 6-speed" incident...
My left hand was reconstructed today with anchors after having previous surgery with three screws and donor connective tissue.
So the damn pills are talking!
Last edited by vorteciroc; Apr 9, 2020 at 12:42 AM.
But there must be something on YouTube showing 4L80E end-play measurements...
Or a THM400... Or some other automatic transmission...
Sorry, I was injured yesterday in a "dropped an Alison 6-speed" incident...
My left hand was reconstructed today with anchors after having previous surgery with three screws and donor connective tissue.
So the damn pills are talking!
damn dude. Speedy recovery to you. Been there.
i found this video and it shows 2 distinct clicks. I only get one and i think my new bushings are too tight to feel any clearance
looks to me like .008 front endplay. I was not pressing up from the rear of the case. This is the only way ihsve been able to see two discernable stopping points.
now i have to measure the difference between the hubs...
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4L80E End play issues 
