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pre gm hardening the splines...I'd agree with Kfxguy
but around 03 GM started to induction harden the splines of the shell and failure rates REALLY tailed off
I have a stock gm hardened shell in my personal 400-420ish hp camaro and it does not get treated nicely. I used it mainly to show it would be fine.
it had 140k miles in a pickup before I used it in my car haha
As for the earlier units and what to upgrade to, you don't need the beast. Any parts warehouse should have NEW hardened spline units.
The sonnax piece with bearing is also nice
The Video that you Posted is not showing the Reaction (Sun) Shell.
Your Video shows the Front Planetary Ring-Gear and the Reaction Shaft that is held together by a Snap-Ring.
The Reaction (Sun) Shell is the much larger Part that is under the Reaction Shaft, separated by a Thrust-Washer or Torrington-Bearing.
Shown below:
The splines here either strip-out or get broken-off.
The Reaction Shaft should be replaced if the Bushing surface has worn the Shaft, or if the splines are damaged, or if the teeth that mesh into the Ring-Gear are worn/ have excessive play.
If you are using the external Oil-Cooler in combination with a Radiator that has an internal Oil-Cooler...
You do not need to worry.
If the external Oil-Cooler is used alone... it could be an issue.
Thanks for the clarification. My reaction shaft looks worn. I will see about getying another one. Is there a particular year to buy? Or brand, I think sonnax makes one?
I bought the sonnax sun shell. Should arive in the mail any day now.
Thanks for the clarification. My reaction shaft looks worn. I will see about getying another one. Is there a particular year to buy? Or brand, I think sonnax makes one?
I bought the sonnax sun shell. Should arive in the mail any day now.
somnax makes one but unless you plan over 550-600hp a stock one will work fine.
@LT1Z09 Awesome makes me feel a lot better. That and Dana said a LOT of the big players are ordering his kits for their builds. Additionally, he said in all his years virtually nobody has had issues after building his kits. He includes a step by step guide with every detail and video. Really excited to get the kit.
That exhaust is a bit of a PITA. Mine is still factory, but I've removed it twice now. I'm worried about how the wiring harness disconnects. I too can attribute a LOT to Youtube. Gave me confidence to think about doing this. Watched a TON of videos of rebuilds. I also bought a book, GM Automatic Overdrive Transmission Builder's and Swappers Guide.
One last note, I asked Dana why nobody uses the 5 pinion planetary. He said back in the day he called a GM engineer when they released those. That they are actually a cheapened 4 pinion planetary. They had to add a 5th gear because the gearset is weaker. It's made from powdered metal. Additionally, the oil windows are much smaller and it gets less oil on the gears. That they are NO use, the 4 Pinions are much more robust.
Awesome. In my case I had lost 3/4th gear. So it was neat going piece by piece and trying to figure out why it failed. In my case and all my minutes of experience 😅.. I summed it up to the separator plate check valve(little ball) was jammed into the plate, (can't remember which one) had to hammer it out using a decent amount of force at that. Which caused the 3/4 failure?
I also had a broken sunshell, which I didn't even noticed nor did I have any broken sunshell symptom. Unless this also causes a 3/4 failure?
I learned so much from doing this build I look forward to buying another vehicle with a bad 4l60e and fixing it. And btw I did this outside since I don't have a garage took it apart on the floor and put it together on a table, it's surprisingly light when apart. So light that it's surprisingly heavy when it's put together. Fighting the elements sucked.. had to use lots of trash bags when it rained and fighting dust as well.
I figured what I lacked in experience I would make up for in patience and time. I only worked on it when I felt like it.
I got me a new hayden cooler for it and I flushed the lines. And also bypassed the radiator.
@Kfxguy I think there are a few variations of the reaction tube no? I had impression they changed up the design slightly over the years at GM. Do you know which one is the best to buy?
@LT1Z09 yeah the 4L60E a really beautiful design. People rag on the 4L60E but it seems to far, there's a couple week links otherwise is a great overall design when built right. Take this with a grain of salt, as is the only transmission I've ever taken apart haha.
I frequently buy gallon and quart zip lock bags. I then have little boxes. I sort my parts into the bags, label the bags with sharpie, and put them in the boxes. Works AWESOME. I have nearly completely dismantled my Z71 tahoe (body, engine... everything) in that whole process ALL I have lost is the Evap system rubber nut that goes on the intake. I use construction garbage bags to cover larger projects, like my engine build, and this transmission.
GM produced four versions of the Reaction-Shaft for the 4L60E... and a slightly different version for the THM700-R4 as well.
The type you uses does not matter, except for being matched with the corresponding components.
The four versions are:
-Early Front Planet design with a Thrust-Washer.
-Late Front Planet design with a Thrust-Washer.
-Early Front Planet design with a Torrington-Bearing.
-Late Front Planet design with a Torrington-Bearing.
Almost all of the 4L60E's and 700R4's that I have torn down (that had the Beast sunshell in it), had badly to very badly worn reaction shafts because of the Beast sunshell not being balanced.
Almost all of the 4L60E's and 700R4's that I have torn down (that had the Beast sunshell in it), had badly to very badly worn reaction shafts because of the Beast sunshell not being balanced.
probably because the previous builder was too lazy to change the bushing when they were in it.
This reaction shaft has my head spinning. I understand there's several versions. It appears 19369220 is the latest HERE
I prefer to use a Torrington bearing front and rear if possible. I think the latest version does that? However, does it fit the planetary gears?
I will give it to Sonnax, they make it SIMPLE to understand. Apparently they include all fitments for each version with the reaction shaft HERE
Also I understand GM had several different part numbers, some of the older with different or no heat treatments in various areas, and metals. Dana told me about all that but I forgot what he said. The GM ones can be indestructible if you know which ones are which, before cost saving measures were implemented. Anybody know much about them?
My rebuild kit is in... Quick question. Have prob watched 100 hours of rebuilds haha... One guy honed his servo and valve body piston bores. Is this necessary? Makes since why he did it but I don't even know where to get a hone that small.
Just purchase some "Green" Scotch-Brite Pads and use your hands.
Genius!
Curious, I will assemble the sub assemblies over time. May honestly take me a few months as I get time here and there and rewatch tutorials buy additional parts, etc.
I'm concerned about lube... I know I need to soak the clutches in ATF prior to assembly. Is there any harm in assembling those drums w/ ATF on clutches then not using them for several months? I'd be sealing them up really good in plastic bags afterwards until I do the full assembly.
Curious, I will assemble the sub assemblies over time. May honestly take me a few months as I get time here and there and rewatch tutorials buy additional parts, etc.
I'm concerned about lube... I know I need to soak the clutches in ATF prior to assembly. Is there any harm in assembling those drums w/ ATF on clutches then not using them for several months? I'd be sealing them up really good in plastic bags afterwards until I do the full assembly.
Sorry, I did not think to post this...
I often forget that I am talking to DIY Builders and NOT Professionals.
MAKE SURE to clean-out any areas that have been gone over with the "Scotch-Brite" material!
The material contains Aluminum-Oxide as the abrasive-component (like the rough grains in sand-paper).
The aluminum-oxide is easily left behind after using the "Scotch-Brite" pads...
and will act like sand in your ATF; damaging seals, bushings, and eventually everything!
Clean, clean, clean!
Last edited by vorteciroc; 07-16-2021 at 08:03 PM.
The Transmission can sit that long when the Unit is Assembled "WET".
(NOT that I really would recommend ever building "DRY", but people do...)
Yes, soak the Friction Materials, dunk your Torrington-Bearings in ATF, use a good amount of "Transmission Assembly-Lube" on all Bushing, Thrust-Washers, and Components that should be lubricated.
Fill the Pump-Vanes with Lube or ATF, and also make certain to get as close to 1-Quart of ATF in the Torque-Converter as possible.
A stock diameter Torque-Converter will definitely take 1-Quart of more...
But it must be filled slowly due to the construction/ design of the Torque-Converter.
A small tub of 'Vaseline" can be substituted, if you do not have any Automatic-Transmission Assembly-Lubricant.
Do NOT use Wheel-Bearing Grease or something similar to that!
Both Transmission Assembly-Lube and Vaseline are "Petrolium-Jelly" based...
That is what you want; it will dissolve in the hot ATF when the Unit is running.
Other Lubes will not quite dissolve, and cause issues.
Ready to start putting together the reverse input drum. Got the piston out and had a couple questions on it.
1. There's a raised edge on outside radius. Towards bottom of piston is a hard edge, like an unmachined edge. Is this typical?
2. The spring retainer that applies pressure to piston looks good other than a few small metal stained areas (rust?) on the cage itself. Do people typically replace these spring cages?
3. Got another reaction shaft, and it came with the planetary gear set. The planetary set seems to have a bit of wiggle room inside the ring gear. How much wiggle is appropriate and how much is too much?
Ready to start putting together the reverse input drum. Got the piston out and had a couple questions on it.
1. There's a raised edge on outside radius. Towards bottom of piston is a hard edge, like an unmachined edge. Is this typical?
2. The spring retainer that applies pressure to piston looks good other than a few small metal stained areas (rust?) on the cage itself. Do people typically replace these spring cages?
3. Got another reaction shaft, and it came with the planetary gear set. The planetary set seems to have a bit of wiggle room inside the ring gear. How much wiggle is appropriate and how much is too much?
Sometimes firmer Springs come with the rebuild-parts...
It is a good idea to install them in your Piston Return Spring Assemblies (throw away the original Springs).
It is a good idea to de-burr any sharp edges...
Good for preventing Seals from getting cut, and good for your hands (preventing them from getting cut).
When building a lot of these... a Builder's hands definitely get beat-up!
Research: "4L60E Planetary Pinion-Gear clearance".
Then examine how much the 4 Pinion-Gears of each Planetary-Gear move up-and-down...
as well as if the Pinion-Gears can rock back-and-forth.
Less than 0.025" - 0.030" clearance up-and-down...
Along with no rocking, and then its good to go!
06-24-2021, 07:09 AM
makes me feel a lot better. That and Dana said a LOT of the big players are ordering his kits for their builds. Additionally, he said in all his years virtually nobody has had issues after building his kits. He includes a step by step guide with every detail and video. Really excited to get the kit.
