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I've been studying 4L60E transmissions. I got an extra 4L60E to build myself and swap in. However, I have a few questions about parts. Curious has anybody on this form built their own 4L60E? In a nutshell my speced parts below:
Then replace bushings, seals, etc. etc. etc. Not sure about a shift kit. I see Sonnax has kit to rebuild accumulators and pump kit I may throw in there too.
there is a tranny section in the forums.....the mods will move this post there....and you will get your questions answered
you have much to learn young Padawan ......
there is a tranny section in the forums.....the mods will move this post there....and you will get your questions answered
you have much to learn young Padawan ......
Awesome thank you, I was trying to find that section. My eyes must be crossed, I found it. Reposting there
MOVED POST TO HERE Moderator can delete this post if they like... sorry I didn't notice there's a separate forum for transmissions. I was looking under Gen III specifically.
Last edited by weinerschizel; 06-08-2021 at 05:32 PM.
Well it seems that all the regular junk that sales people everywhere are pushing for Automatic Transmission parts are still doing a great job!
Many members here have built their own Transmission here.
You should take the time to use the "Search Feature" for the Automatic Transmission Forum...
You will find many great Threads/ Builds.
I actually like the Sonnax Smart Shell... but it is not needed.
The wider Bands and Sonnax Servos are also not needed... although I do end up using them for builds in the 800-1,200 HP range.
For a 4L60E, the "performance frictions" and the 5-pinion Planets can go straight in the trash!
Last edited by vorteciroc; 06-08-2021 at 06:04 PM.
Awesome thanks for the references. Quick question, is this hole normal for the case... Almost looks like it was broken. It's behind the pump above the valve body center case...
Also the hole for the dipstick appears to be busted off a bit at bottom. Is that typical?
Pictures are of my donor 4L60E, tearing it down seeing what parts I can use.
The Transmission Case you have just has a little rough casting flash.
There is always some casting flash... it is a result of the casting process to make the Cases.
Most people remove the really rough areas with a Die-Grinder or similar tool.
Well it seems that all the regular junk that sales people everywhere are pushing for Automatic Transmission parts are still doing a great job!
Many members here have built their own Transmission here.
You should take the time to use the "Search Feature" for the Automatic Transmission Forum...
You will find many great Threads/ Builds.
I actually like the Sonnax Smart Shell... but it is not needed.
The wider Bands and Sonnax Servos are also not needed... although I do end up using them for builds in the 800-1,200 HP range.
For a 4L60E, the "performance frictions" and the 5-pinion Planets can go straight in the trash!
I had been curious aboit the 5 pinion planetaries as the smaller gears would be weaker right? Why did GM start installing them?
Do me a favor and just put: "5 Pinion Planets" in the search box for the Automatic Transmission Forum, and tell us what you find.
You're great help! I need to give you a beer, hell about $300+ worth of beer. The nonsense on 5 pinion planetary being good is as I suspected, poor information. I'm leaning towards factory / OEM clutch kit, Sonnax smart shell, corvette servos, wide band (makes me feel better for not much $$), rebuild incidentals (bushings, seals, etc), and slap it back together. Read the thread links you gave me... going to look closer at them again and see if I can glean some more information off them. Also would love to see the carnage you mentioned of exploded 5 pinion planetaries.
A call to Dana at Pro-Built Automatics can really help get your parts selection in order.
The choice of 3-4 clutch pack is particularly critical. Most of the pros on here seem to prefer the Borg Warner hi-energy pack.
Called Dana and left a message. Thanks for the referral. I see he makes a bunch of different rebuild kits and sells them on his website. Hopefully he has a good one for my build Would certainly take a lot of the guesswork out of this for me.
Called Dana and left a message. Thanks for the referral. I see he makes a bunch of different rebuild kits and sells them on his website. Hopefully he has a good one for my build Would certainly take a lot of the guesswork out of this for me.
He will have one for your build for sure. And he takes all the guess work out. Dana is a great dude and his kits are great for the novice builder.
Keep in mind sometimes hes tough to get ahiold of and hes going through parts shortages like every one else. So be patient but he will come through for you
I've been building a bunch of units here lately. I have a combo that just flat out works. One I just did for a guy (was built a year ago by someone else local, but it got water in it and failed) called me yesterday after getting his truck back going, to tell me his trans shifted 1000% better than it did with the previous build.
Here's what i do:
Low hp build
Beast sun shell
carbon band
plastic check *****
set the 2-4 band clearance around .080-.090 (it was .150 before with a fresh band)
high energy clutches except 3-4, GPZ clutches on the 3-4
I use kolene steels if I do a 7 or 8 friction stack on the 3-4....some people disagree with this but i find it works better. set clearance .035-.045
Make sure you put the return springs back in the 3- clutch pack
.500 boost valve
"corvette" servo (most newer vehicles seem to have this already)
I drill the spacer plate out for a little more fluid to the 1-2 and 2-3 shift...i just follow the transgo shift kit guide on drilling those and drill on the lower end. i do not install "shift kits" in any of my transmissions. ever. I wont get into why, but I have had good luck with keeping things simple.
I've have the low/reverse drum snap ring pop off twice in the past. Why? no idea, I know exactly how to install it and i make sure it seated. maybe the snap ring groove was hammered...don;t care...I always zap a small tack weld on there with my tig. Dremel gets the tack undone....overkill? yea probably...but I know the snap ring wont come off.
I dont worry with 5 pinion planets. I've had the 5's break and the 4's hold up. so theres that. I no longer make my customers spend $250 on that waste. edit: I spoke too soon on this. I'm going back to using 5 pinions...
Make sure the check ***** seat. if you can see daylight with the ball on the hole on the spacer plate...its not sealing. I take a steel ball and back the plate with a smalle socket and tap the ball in the seat lightly until it seals. Then I use plastic check ***** so it doesnt hammer the spacer plate.
for higher hp builds, I'll use a 4l79 drum, sonnax billet input and out put shafts, sonnax billet servo, sonnax sun shell, sonnax valve body end plugs, sonnax billet reaction shaft, input drum reinforcement kit, sonnax pinless accumulator pistons, wide 2-4 carbon band, hp pump slide spring, "blue" molded pistons...I'm sure I'm forgetting a few things.
When I build these things I look at the surfaces that rub metal to metal, bushings etc. I make sure the bushings are in good shape, change them if need be, i resurface and polish other surfaces that need it. Example: reaction shaft, it gets rough riding on the sunshell bushing. I'll zip off a couple thousandths and polish it with 2000 grit. You'd be surprised how much easier it rotates against the bushing after doing that. Other areas get this same attention.
I've been building a bunch of units here lately. I have a combo that just flat out works. One I just did for a guy (was built a year ago by someone else local, but it got water in it and failed) called me yesterday after getting his truck back going, to tell me his trans shifted 1000% better than it did with the previous build.
Here's what i do:
Low hp build
Beast sun shell
carbon band
plastic check *****
set the 2-4 band clearance around .080-.090 (it was .150 before with a fresh band)
high energy clutches except 3-4, GPZ clutches on the 3-4
I use kolene steels if I do a 7 or 8 friction stack on the 3-4....some people disagree with this but i find it works better. set clearance .035-.045
Make sure you put the return springs back in the 3- clutch pack
.500 boost valve
"corvette" servo (most newer vehicles seem to have this already)
I drill the spacer plate out for a little more fluid to the 1-2 and 2-3 shift...i just follow the transgo shift kit guide on drilling those and drill on the lower end. i do not install "shift kits" in any of my transmissions. ever. I wont get into why, but I have had good luck with keeping things simple.
I've have the low/reverse drum snap ring pop off twice in the past. Why? no idea, I know exactly how to install it and i make sure it seated. maybe the snap ring groove was hammered...don;t care...I always zap a small tack weld on there with my tig. Dremel gets the tack undone....overkill? yea probably...but I know the snap ring wont come off.
I dont worry with 5 pinion planets. I've had the 5's break and the 4's hold up. so theres that. I no longer make my customers spend $250 on that waste.
Make sure the check ***** seat. if you can see daylight with the ball on the hole on the spacer plate...its not sealing. I take a steel ball and back the plate with a smalle socket and tap the ball in the seat lightly until it seals. Then I use plastic check ***** so it doesnt hammer the spacer plate.
for higher hp builds, I'll use a 4l79 drum, sonnax billet input and out put shafts, sonnax billet servo, sonnax sun shell, sonnax valve body end plugs, sonnax billet reaction shaft, input drum reinforcement kit, sonnax pinless accumulator pistons, wide 2-4 carbon band, hp pump slide spring, "blue" molded pistons...I'm sure I'm forgetting a few things.
When I build these things I look at the surfaces that rub metal to metal, bushings etc. I make sure the bushings are in good shape, change them if need be, i resurface and polish other surfaces that need it. Example: reaction shaft, it gets rough riding on the sunshell bushing. I'll zip off a couple thousandths and polish it with 2000 grit. You'd be surprised how much easier it rotates against the bushing after doing that. Other areas get this same attention.
Love it, not overly complicated. I will maybe run 500 hp max but right now certainly under 450. It is a Tahoe though so pretty heavy.
Got old trans pretty well torn down into sub assemblies. Will order parts through dana and try and build up per your tips.
I do like that sonnax smart shell though. I may spend a few more dollars and get it. I just like that it has a little bit different bearing design right? It is also balanced not that I will rev high. But for 50$ more seems reasonible.
How do I tell if I already have corvette servos? I think is a 2005 4x4 truck transmission.
Is there a specific reason for the beast sun shell instead of the Sonnax smart shell? I had been smitten by the Sonnax clutch race design and thrust bearing, seems a bit more robust design? Are they good?
Also did you mean 4L70 input drum? Your post said 4L79. My input drum looks pretty sad, the band had burnt up on it. Not sure I could reuse it so need to purchase a new input drum also think it is necessary since switching to wide band. I will just order the one you recommend.
Frank at Performabuilt said he also recommends the Sonnax shift kit for a DIY guy like me.
Last edited by weinerschizel; 06-12-2021 at 01:22 AM.
Is there a specific reason for the beast sun shell instead of the Sonnax smart shell? I had been smitten by the Sonnax clutch race design and thrust bearing, seems a bit more robust design? Are they good?
Also did you mean 4L70 input drum? Your post said 4L79. My input drum looks pretty sad, the band had burnt up on it. Not sure I could reuse it so need to purchase a new input drum also think it is necessary since switching to wide band. I will just order the one you recommend.
Frank at Performabuilt said he also recommends the Sonnax shift kit for a DIY guy like me.
I have questions for him too.
To answer your question; the Steel Check-***** can work their way through the Orifice that they seal after a while (especially the #4 Check-Ball with increased Line-pressure).
The non-metallic Check-***** should not do this... However with a new/ unused Separator-Plate; the Check-Ball Orifices must have a Seat created with a Steel Check-Ball, before non-metallic replacements can be used).
Non-metallic Check-***** have been used in Automatic Transmissions from other Manufacturers for a long time now.
GM was behind everyone else regarding this.
I've been building a bunch of units here lately. I have a combo that just flat out works. One I just did for a guy (was built a year ago by someone else local, but it got water in it and failed) called me yesterday after getting his truck back going, to tell me his trans shifted 1000% better than it did with the previous build.
Here's what i do:
Low hp build
Beast sun shell
carbon band
plastic check *****
set the 2-4 band clearance around .080-.090 (it was .150 before with a fresh band)
high energy clutches except 3-4, GPZ clutches on the 3-4
I use kolene steels if I do a 7 or 8 friction stack on the 3-4....some people disagree with this but i find it works better. set clearance .035-.045
Make sure you put the return springs back in the 3- clutch pack
.500 boost valve
"corvette" servo (most newer vehicles seem to have this already)
I drill the spacer plate out for a little more fluid to the 1-2 and 2-3 shift...i just follow the transgo shift kit guide on drilling those and drill on the lower end. i do not install "shift kits" in any of my transmissions. ever. I wont get into why, but I have had good luck with keeping things simple.
I've have the low/reverse drum snap ring pop off twice in the past. Why? no idea, I know exactly how to install it and i make sure it seated. maybe the snap ring groove was hammered...don;t care...I always zap a small tack weld on there with my tig. Dremel gets the tack undone....overkill? yea probably...but I know the snap ring wont come off.
I dont worry with 5 pinion planets. I've had the 5's break and the 4's hold up. so theres that. I no longer make my customers spend $250 on that waste.
Make sure the check ***** seat. if you can see daylight with the ball on the hole on the spacer plate...its not sealing. I take a steel ball and back the plate with a smalle socket and tap the ball in the seat lightly until it seals. Then I use plastic check ***** so it doesnt hammer the spacer plate.
for higher hp builds, I'll use a 4l79 drum, sonnax billet input and out put shafts, sonnax billet servo, sonnax sun shell, sonnax valve body end plugs, sonnax billet reaction shaft, input drum reinforcement kit, sonnax pinless accumulator pistons, wide 2-4 carbon band, hp pump slide spring, "blue" molded pistons...I'm sure I'm forgetting a few things.
When I build these things I look at the surfaces that rub metal to metal, bushings etc. I make sure the bushings are in good shape, change them if need be, i resurface and polish other surfaces that need it. Example: reaction shaft, it gets rough riding on the sunshell bushing. I'll zip off a couple thousandths and polish it with 2000 grit. You'd be surprised how much easier it rotates against the bushing after doing that. Other areas get this same attention.
I had a few questions that I was wondering what your opinions were... I plan to use some of these parts in a Thread discussing what the value of some parts equate to.
-What brand of Frictions are you using to have High-Energy Frictions for the Low-Reverse, Overrun, Forward, and Reverse-Input Clutch-Packs? ...Allison? ...Alto High-Energy?
-Why do you prefer the Beast Reaction-Shell over the Heat-Treated GM Shell?
-Why do you like to use only the Pin-less Accumulator Pistons? ...Instead of a new Pin and cast aluminum Piston?
-What do you like about the aftermarket "Blue" Clutch Apply-Pistons?
A call to Dana at Pro-Built Automatics can really help get your parts selection in order.
The choice of 3-4 clutch pack is particularly critical. Most of the pros on here seem to prefer the Borg Warner hi-energy pack.
Having a hard time getting ahold of Dana. I left two voicemails now and an email. Hopefully he still gets back with me but I really need to get on with my build
I'm going to clean up the case, and parts. Then rebuild each drum as I go. A custom kit would be awesome but I don't know if I can wait. I really need to get this transmission built so I can get to using my truck. I've settled on the following parts so far:
Sonnax Plastic Check ***** - 10000-08
Sonnax Shift Kit - HP-4L60E-01 (Frank @ Performabuilt recommended this for a DIY build.)
Questions about these parts:
New bushings - will any old bushings do? Can I just order off eBay?
New seals - does anybody sell a seal kit?
Sonnax Smartshell - 77749-02K
None of the builders seem to be using these smartshells anymore? They're using Monster Transmission's Beast input Shell HERE. I liked the sunshell because of it's sprag race and extra bearing. Is there an issue with those Sonnax Smartshell's though?
Is there a specific reason for the beast sun shell instead of the Sonnax smart shell? I had been smitten by the Sonnax clutch race design and thrust bearing, seems a bit more robust design? Are they good?
Also did you mean 4L70 input drum? Your post said 4L79. My input drum looks pretty sad, the band had burnt up on it. Not sure I could reuse it so need to purchase a new input drum also think it is necessary since switching to wide band. I will just order the one you recommend.
Frank at Performabuilt said he also recommends the Sonnax shift kit for a DIY guy like me.
I like the plastic check ***** because the react faster and don’t beat up the plate.
if you are doing the wide band, yes replace the low/reverse drum.
dont forget the input drum reinforcement kit.
I like the sonnax smart shell, but it’s not needed for your application. I get a heavy duty shell from a local parts place for a good bit cheaper than the shell you posted at monster transmission. It’s a generic beast. Hasn’t failed me yet, splines are thicker, reinforced and the whole thing is thicker than a stock shell.
I have a local parts place that has everything in stock, if they don’t, they can have it next day. I just text the owner and confirmed he will ship anywhere, pm me if you want his name and number. He said he’d get you whatever you need. The only thing he doesn’t carry is the 4l79 drum, but he has a full line of sonnax parts he keeps in stock specifically for me. He carries in stock gpz clutches also.
06-08-2021, 04:21 PM
4L60E Build 
