I'll start with a disclaimer. I've had several f-bodies over the last 20+ years and this is my first with an automatic. I bought a project car for my son and I to get running a couple months ago but now it has trans issues. I don't know anything about the history of the car other than the previous owner thought it had a broken crank. This is a '95 Z28 with 114K miles. I pulled the motor and had new rings and bearings installed right when I bought it. Everything else looked good. I installed a small cc305 cam while it was out along with new valve springs, pushrods, and lifters. Also did longtubes and an ORY during reinstall of the motor. Now in hindsight I should've just done a new torque converter when I had it out but I didn't.

On first test drive it wouldn't back out of the garage which I determined was due to low trans fluid level. I had replaced the trans filter and added fluid but not enough. Added fluid and drove it and it seemed ok. I then had it tuned with a cable loaner where I uploaded the tune based on the file he emailed me. We did a couple rounds back and forth as I logged data and sent it in. During this time (the first time I went wide open throttle for logging) I noticed it would bounce off the rev limiter a couple times before shifting into 2nd. I'm talking a couple quick bounces up there at 6000 before shifting. Normal driving shifts in general seemed slow too. A day or two later I'm logging some more and its worse. Now it's bouncing several times off the limiter before shifting and seems to be slipping while driving in 2nd or 3rd. I get home and the fluid level is too low as in dipstick dry. I added a quart and level is good now but its slipping and wont even shift out of 1st unless I let off the gas completely. I can drive part throttle up to 3000 rpm which is 25 mph and even hold my speed but it won't shift unless I'm completely off the gas. Once in 2nd or 3rd its ok but will slip if I give it moderate gas. Did I destroy this trans by beating on it with low fluid level? I would guess I did maybe 4 of 5 wide open throttle runs up to the 1-2 shift and only 1 or 2 of those went up to see the 2-3 shift. Best I can tell its a stock trans and stock torque converter. Appreciate any help.

 

low fluid level is one of the absolute fastest ways to cause damage. It would not surprise me if you caused some damage in this transmission by running it so low on fluid. Especially since F body has shallow pan which means fluid level is even more critical.

Fill it until fluid level shows full. Running in park. Then go 1 qt over full.
If you still have issue, prepare to spend for a rebuild.
Sorry for your luck

 

I'm not sure about a 95 f-body but an f-body with a LS engine the trans dip stick tube is very long and runs almost horizonal to the intake manifold. This makes checking the fluid level tricky after adding fluid. When adding fluid, you will need to wait 15 minutes or so before rechecking the fluid level. This gives the fluid time drain out of the tube for a more actuate reading on the dip stick.

 

Thanks guys. I added another quart today and level is a little above the hashed area and no change driving. Still slipping like crazy. It won't shift at any rpm unless my foot is off the gas. As soon as it shifts if I want to accelerate then rpms jump to say 3000 or more. Got a few whiffs of burning smell when I got back from the 15 min test drive. While logging I noticed the PCM will say its in 4th gear at 45mph and roughly 2000 rpm and when I give it any gas the rpms jump up to 3000 but it still says its in 4. I can then immediately move the shifter to D at which point I thought I might feel a shift but nothing changes other than the log shows it in 3. It pulls ok in 1st when I did a single WOT run but wouldn't shift at the top until I totally let off. At this point I can't tell if the torque converter is jacked and slipping like crazy or if its the trans. My guess is trans.

 

If the fluid isn't nice bright reddish-pink, and is dark and smells bad.. Just pull it out its done.

I'm just in the same process on a brand new transmission because I screwed up on the fluid level. (Don't work on cars when your tired.. TM)

 

And I was really hoping to at least have someone say "don't worry...it's 26 years old with over 110K and probably would've died soon anyways". You make it sound like you killed a new transmission doing something similar! Definitely my fault for not checking level before doing several WOT runs and drivability testing.

 

Bbond and MaroonMonsterLS1 gave you the perfect First recommendations.


Now I would call for a Priest to come and give "Last Rights" to the Transmission.


I do not really know how badly the Transmission is performing...
But from your descriptions, it sounds relatively bad.

Normally once the Fluid Level has been examined...
I would take Line-Pressure measurements for all the Gear-Selector Positions, at an idle, and at 1,200 to 1,500 RPM
(All Tires on the ground, and with the Vehicle remaining still. Use the Brakes in the Gear-Selector Positions that require it).

If somehow you are lucky, and have good Lines-Pressure readings...
Get a long Hose, tape the Gauge to the Windshield, and monitor the Pressure while driving.

Lastly, you can disconnect the Main Electrical Connector from the Transmission.
Take Line-Pressure measurements again... Line-Pressure should be at the Maximum.

If need be, a Road-Test can follow with the disconnected Transmission Electrical Connector...
The Transmission should operate normally in the Reverse Gear Position...
and should be ONLY operating in 3rd-Gear for Forward movement.

The Transmission has lasted a very long time, and does not owe anyone anything.
Good luck!

 

Sorry the transmission will need a rebuild, but don't worry...it's 26 years old with over 110K and probably would've died soon anyways.
Feel better now. Lol

This would be a good project for you and your son to take on. It doesn't require a lot of special tools and with YouTube and this forum to help you along you should have a successful outcome. There a several very good threads on rebuilding the 4L60E in this forum, with tons of great information.
Good luck

 

Lol thanks. Honestly I'm thinking about it. It seems it could save me somewhere in the range of $700 - $1200 in someone else's labor. A quick call to a local shop came back with $1600 for a remanufactured trans with a stock-like torque converter. I found a bare bones option online for $1000 but would need to pay shipping both ways and buy a decent torque converter still. I've never done any transmission work but if I can R&R a motor and trans, do head/cam swaps, replace brake and suspension components, etc then you would think I could figure it out with the right tools. I've been a member here for quite a while and have learned a TON from other members along with other online resources and the good old chilton's manuals.

 

Shitty. I know what you mean about working when you are too tired.. Take a nap and get back when rested, it has mage a big difference with me. I still mess up, but not as much.

 

I am doing my first rebuild right now. Interesting to say the least. There are some fantastic videos out there. Transmission bench is a good one I have found. Good luck and happy wrenching, and scratching your head once in a while.

 

Thanks. I found a video online of a guy doing an entire teardown and rebuild of a '08 4L60E. I stopped once he was done with disassembly because DAMN there are a lot of parts in these things. It makes a motor rebuild look simple! I found a shop here that will do the bench rebuild for $850 which seems very appealing to me at this point. Another shop refused to do it unless they removed/reinstalled the trans and they wanted $2700...hell no!

 

Yea a lot of shops have been burnt by underfilled trans burning up on a carry in and out so they wont touch it..

I wasn't going to harass the builder since it was my screwup. Bought it mail-order, likely would not do that again just so I can install and take it to the shop for function test. , of course now my project has full data on the trans including live pressure so wouldn't likely have the same issue.

 

well...you now know which shop is good and which shop is likely not.
$850 for a build would have me running for the hills.

you'll likely be getting a trans that's been clutch slapped and rattle can'd. Not an actual proper rebuild.

The shop that charges 2700 wasn't terribly far off. Everybody thinks these vehicles with 4l60e are old and not worth 2700 for a rebuild...but that's not the case. Figure 2000 for the rebuild and the new tq converter. 500 for R&R. 200 in shop supplies, fluid, etc.
They refuse the job unless they pull/install because they know the average joe has problems just putting fluid in it (as is true with this thread)
So they aren't gonna trust the average joe with removing, installing, getting converter spacing right, flushing the cooler, filling it with fluid, making sure the shifter is adjusted right, making sure the driveshaft and U joints are in good shape, the trans mount is in good shape etc. All the little things that go along with an install.

They've had too many average joes either break the pump with the converter during install, or drive them 4 qts low on fluid, etc and come back. And they know it's just an absolute PITA do deal with a customer who just paid for a rebuild...now having issues...and you get to tell them it's their own damn fault.
And then, charge them full price again to fix it. That's the real stinger. Because my labor isn't worth any less just because the customer screwed up an install.

So anyway, after that little mini-rant

the $850 number is something you should RUN from. I mean RUN.
The 2700 number is a definite blow to the checkbook and I understand passing up that price...but don't act like it's a ridiculous number.

 

@MaroonMonsterLS1 I appreciate your opinion and it all makes sense. The $2700 is a ridiculous price for my build given the car cost $2200 and I'm essentially taking it all back to stock minus the very mild cam and headers. I don't agree with stereotyping me as an average Joe but I definitely made an average Joe-type mistake since this is my first auto trans car I've done any work on (related to the trans that is). I personally don't see the value in paying someone else an extra $500-$1000 to remove/reinstall the trans when I can do that myself and just recently did with the entire motor and trans. I'm trying to keep the total project including car purchase under $6000 all-in and I'm honing in on that pretty fast excluding the price of my labor. I would be well under that had I not smoked the trans!

 

That's fine that your project doesn't justify the cost. No problem there

but $2700 is not ridiculous for R&R, rebuild, converter, and a quality warranty.

And as far as the "average joe" comment...to the shop...everybody is an average joe.
They don't care what your history or experience is. There are shops with "master techs" that break pumps and can't fill up a trans with fluid. If they are going to build and warranty something...they're going to see the whole job through and I can't blame them.

I personally will do a "bench job" and let customer do the pull/install. But it is with clear understanding that if they screw it up, that's solely their fault and the warranty is over right then and there. If they want to pay accordingly to fix the screw up, that's fine. But don't expect a warranty repair for your incompetence.

 

Makes sense. That $1700 quote I got for a rebuilt trans only included a stock-like converter. They actually wouldn't sell it without which kind of sucks since I don't want a stock converter. I think if you could then that one is closer to $1500 and then throw in a decent converter and fluids plus R&R from the car and $2700 is reasonable. I'll certainly be reading up and looking for advice to ensure I install my TC right when it goes back in.

 

of course they won't sell it without the converter

otherwise people would try to save a couple hundred bucks by reusing an old converter.
An old converter full of the old burnt fluid, with a lockup clutch that is nearly worn out already.

Some shops will allow you to supply a high performance converter and they will just not include the converter or any converter caused failure in their warranty.

You've got to understand, these shops aren't doing this job for fun. They don't care if the camaro is worth 1500 bucks or 15,000 bucks. Their work is the same, the warranty will be the same, and they only want to charge according to their work, warranty, risk, etc

 

There is no way I am doing a bench rebuild for $850 and no way supply a warranty too at that price. 50% of the time when I have done a bench rebuild I have found myself under that vehicle most of the time free of charge just to keep my reputation from being run into the dirt, I live in a very small town. Now I will only do a bench rebuild if I know the person very well.

Transmission builders are in business to make a living not to cut prices because someone has a crap box project were the trans is worth more than the car. I have a saying and that is if a job isn't making me money I just as well be doing my hobbies.

 

Honestly I like how people don't mince words around here. While subjective I would tend to call this car a crap box too. Then again its for my kid's first car and I don't trust him with anything nice considering how I was at that age. Regarding the quotes I went and asked 3 places around here for 3 quotes and that's what I got. I'm not pressuring these guys to do it cheaper due to my car being a turd. I think your point (along with the guy before you) is to steer clear of the $850 option. I doubt that's even a firm price. It's a small shop and the guy on the phone wasn't the owner. He said they "typically" run around $850 for a 4L60E for a bench rebuild not including the converter.