4l60e temps keep rising
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,605
Likes: 1,316
From: Iowa
I've said on multiple threads...and I'll say it here again for anybody that missed it...I'm not the end all be all. Take everything I say with a grain of salt. What I'm doing is working great for me for a while. I am also human and liable to change my mind...I might get 3 or 4 years down the road and find a better way to do something and decide to change a recommendation.
I've noticed you were perfectly friendly when you were asking for rookie help on your rookie build no more than 6 months ago. As soon as you were rude and I told you I wasn't interested in helping you via DM's...you've magically turned into a bit of a debbie downer.
I've got no real ties to this forum...I don't sponsor, I don't make any money from helping here, I just do it for the good I think the forums do. But if there continues to be more of this middle school drama BS it would be real easy for me to disappear
TECH Addict
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 2,513
Likes: 480
From: PDX-OR-USA
Couple things I'd point out,,, just for examples.. I got no dog in the fight... 
1. Show me a trophy truck running the trans cooling through the radiator.. (Hint you wont find one it does not work...)
2. Look at any of the 1-ton plus OEM truck installations, the trans cooler is a plate unit, as big as the radiator on some of them.
- the guys that specialize if all out diesel trucks,, first adder is a direct routed external cooler, and a complete re-tune of the transmission.
3. You can't bandaid a worn out trans with internally leaking valve bodies/ rotating parts with a bigger cooler and expect it to act like new.
I've fought a lot of trackside cooling issues,, air flow was often one of the biggest reasons there were problems.
- Fan shroud, they are needed.
- When you stack heat exchangers you have to make sure the air flow is happening and not bypassing air.
- if your worried about the trans being over cooled use a thermostat in the line. (It happens in sub zero climate.)
- You pay more for a Setrab cooler its because a smart German guy figured out how to properly assemble/weld/test them.
1. Show me a trophy truck running the trans cooling through the radiator.. (Hint you wont find one it does not work...)
2. Look at any of the 1-ton plus OEM truck installations, the trans cooler is a plate unit, as big as the radiator on some of them.
- the guys that specialize if all out diesel trucks,, first adder is a direct routed external cooler, and a complete re-tune of the transmission.
3. You can't bandaid a worn out trans with internally leaking valve bodies/ rotating parts with a bigger cooler and expect it to act like new.
I've fought a lot of trackside cooling issues,, air flow was often one of the biggest reasons there were problems.
- Fan shroud, they are needed.
- When you stack heat exchangers you have to make sure the air flow is happening and not bypassing air.
- if your worried about the trans being over cooled use a thermostat in the line. (It happens in sub zero climate.)
- You pay more for a Setrab cooler its because a smart German guy figured out how to properly assemble/weld/test them.
TECH Junkie
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,046
Likes: 713
From: Poplarville, MS
Reading post from MaroonMonsterLS1 and Vorteciroc are the highlight of my day. I would be deeply sadden if either one just disappeared. I am very thankful for the things that they have shared with us. But I get the frustration too. Thankfully there are more people who really appreciate the help then there are people like Edward Stark.
I was really disappointed when he pulled the race card. I have been on this forum for almost 10 years and have never seen anyone do that until now. How is anyone to know someone’s race on here? He is so arrogant that he can’t see his arrogance is why people respond to him the way they do.
I did not respond back to Edward Stark post for the reason that I did not won’t miss up OPs thread any more than it already was. Again sorry for making a miss of your thread. I just can’t stand it when such misinformation is given. If I am unsure about something I will keep quiet or state that I am not 100% sure. No one knows all the answers.
I was really disappointed when he pulled the race card. I have been on this forum for almost 10 years and have never seen anyone do that until now. How is anyone to know someone’s race on here? He is so arrogant that he can’t see his arrogance is why people respond to him the way they do.
I did not respond back to Edward Stark post for the reason that I did not won’t miss up OPs thread any more than it already was. Again sorry for making a miss of your thread. I just can’t stand it when such misinformation is given. If I am unsure about something I will keep quiet or state that I am not 100% sure. No one knows all the answers.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,605
Likes: 1,316
From: Iowa
Reading post from MaroonMonsterLS1 and Vorteciroc are the highlight of my day. I would be deeply sadden if either one just disappeared. I am very thankful for the things that they have shared with us. But I get the frustration too. Thankfully there are more people who really appreciate the help then there are people like Edward Stark.
I was really disappointed when he pulled the race card. I have been on this forum for almost 10 years and have never seen anyone do that until now. How is anyone to know someone’s race on here? He is so arrogant that he can’t see his arrogance is why people respond to him the way they do.
I did not respond back to Edward Stark post for the reason that I did not won’t miss up OPs thread any more than it already was. Again sorry for making a miss of your thread. I just can’t stand it when such misinformation is given. If I am unsure about something I will keep quiet or state that I am not 100% sure. No one knows all the answers.
I was really disappointed when he pulled the race card. I have been on this forum for almost 10 years and have never seen anyone do that until now. How is anyone to know someone’s race on here? He is so arrogant that he can’t see his arrogance is why people respond to him the way they do.
I did not respond back to Edward Stark post for the reason that I did not won’t miss up OPs thread any more than it already was. Again sorry for making a miss of your thread. I just can’t stand it when such misinformation is given. If I am unsure about something I will keep quiet or state that I am not 100% sure. No one knows all the answers.
I have no idea if someone on here is any race. And even if I did...I would not care.
Only thing I discriminate against on this forum is bad info
TECH Regular
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 463
Likes: 179
I have always wanted to have a few temp gauges (before and after coolers, inbetween coolers) and try different cooler arrangements and see how they work. unfortunately havent had the time but was hoping to try on my truck next spring. normally for a daily driver and living in the great white north i generally run radiator cooler, then external cooler before going back to trans. i just copied OEM, i have not hooked up a gauge to verify. I have seen lots of guys run external cooler only, not a fan but haven't hooked a gauge up to verify it's working (or not working) so can't say ****.
with that said anyone done a DIY trans temp sensor?
with that said anyone done a DIY trans temp sensor?
TECH Addict
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 2,513
Likes: 480
From: PDX-OR-USA
There is a trades book out there for HVAC repair guys, it has all the heat formulas and pressure formulas,,
Really helps out with sizing of heat exchangers.
My copy got borrowed and I can't find it now..
Really helps out with sizing of heat exchangers.
My copy got borrowed and I can't find it now..
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,605
Likes: 1,316
From: Iowa
Tayto, the 4l60e and 4l80e have internal temp senders in the pan from the factory. I think I've done a quick write up on how to use a cheap scanner combo and a smartphone to monitor these temps
for what it is worth...that is usually the only temp I care about or monitor on a street car.
A drag car with turbos that take a while to spool...I'll monitor temp right out of the trans headed to the cooler. Just to see how hot things are getting inside the converter.
Out of the trans=hottest oil right from the converter
Out of the cooler=coolest the oil ever gets
In the pan=good average representation of current trans health/operation.
p.s. I'm not a fan of putting a temp sensor in the line pressure test port.
for what it is worth...that is usually the only temp I care about or monitor on a street car.
A drag car with turbos that take a while to spool...I'll monitor temp right out of the trans headed to the cooler. Just to see how hot things are getting inside the converter.
Out of the trans=hottest oil right from the converter
Out of the cooler=coolest the oil ever gets
In the pan=good average representation of current trans health/operation.
p.s. I'm not a fan of putting a temp sensor in the line pressure test port.
On The Tree
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 187
Likes: 23
From: Israel
Couple things I'd point out,,, just for examples.. I got no dog in the fight...
1. Show me a trophy truck running the trans cooling through the radiator.. (Hint you wont find one it does not work...)
Trophy? You've gone too far. Caterpillar 797 uses OEM cooler.
2. Look at any of the 1-ton plus OEM truck installations, the trans cooler is a plate unit, as big as the radiator on some of them.
I dont know for all of the cars, i can speak for mine. The stock OEM in my truck goes to the main radiator.
- the guys that specialize if all out diesel trucks,, first adder is a direct routed external cooler, and a complete re-tune of the transmission.
3. You can't bandaid a worn out trans with internally leaking valve bodies/ rotating parts with a bigger cooler and expect it to act like new.
The cooler your fluid, the higher viscosity the fluid is. The fluid resist to internal leaks up to some point. You can really feel it on a worn out 60e on a cold start and after it heats up.
On cold it grabs like a champ, when it heats up it's becomes sort of "lazy".
I've fought a lot of trackside cooling issues,, air flow was often one of the biggest reasons there were problems.
- Fan shroud, they are needed.
- When you stack heat exchangers you have to make sure the air flow is happening and not bypassing air.
- if your worried about the trans being over cooled use a thermostat in the line. (It happens in sub zero climate.)
-Thermostat may be a good idea, only when it works. But it's 1 more point of possible failure in the long term use. I like my tranny at 150f.
- You pay more for a Setrab cooler its because a smart German guy figured out how to properly assemble/weld/test them.
1. Show me a trophy truck running the trans cooling through the radiator.. (Hint you wont find one it does not work...)
Trophy? You've gone too far. Caterpillar 797 uses OEM cooler.
2. Look at any of the 1-ton plus OEM truck installations, the trans cooler is a plate unit, as big as the radiator on some of them.
I dont know for all of the cars, i can speak for mine. The stock OEM in my truck goes to the main radiator.
- the guys that specialize if all out diesel trucks,, first adder is a direct routed external cooler, and a complete re-tune of the transmission.
3. You can't bandaid a worn out trans with internally leaking valve bodies/ rotating parts with a bigger cooler and expect it to act like new.
The cooler your fluid, the higher viscosity the fluid is. The fluid resist to internal leaks up to some point. You can really feel it on a worn out 60e on a cold start and after it heats up.
On cold it grabs like a champ, when it heats up it's becomes sort of "lazy".
I've fought a lot of trackside cooling issues,, air flow was often one of the biggest reasons there were problems.
- Fan shroud, they are needed.
- When you stack heat exchangers you have to make sure the air flow is happening and not bypassing air.
- if your worried about the trans being over cooled use a thermostat in the line. (It happens in sub zero climate.)
-Thermostat may be a good idea, only when it works. But it's 1 more point of possible failure in the long term use. I like my tranny at 150f.
- You pay more for a Setrab cooler its because a smart German guy figured out how to properly assemble/weld/test them.
The race card is just a joke man. Come on. Why so serious. I dont give a damn what you think about me. Im against speaking about me in each post that other people open and transforming these posts to a lesson of "How bad Eddie is" topic.
If you read " bad info" , debate. Saying to someone "Stful, You're an idiot" is not the way to go. At least with me.
And for god sake, stop creating this BS drama. Speak tech and concentrate on the topic and not on my personality.
Also. tell it to your friend Pumba before he gets heart attack while writing some emo posts.
Peace.
@bbond105
You know some racist jokes? Like : Thats because im black? Or Thats because im Jewish?
How is anyone to know someone’s race on here?
Last edited by Edward Stark; Dec 28, 2021 at 04:23 PM.
TECH Junkie
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,046
Likes: 713
From: Poplarville, MS
This is just my opinion. I like to go from the trans to the radiator, external cooler and then back to the trans. I feel like the radiator will bring the temp down to a stock level and then the external cooler will then cool it even more. Using the two together should produce a cooler trans temp. I have not tested this to know for sure this what is happing, just the way that I like to do it on a street car. I do wonder if it gets too cold of a temp in the winter. I never think to check it when it's cold out.
On The Tree
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 187
Likes: 23
From: Israel
This is just my opinion. I like to go from the trans to the radiator, external cooler and then back to the trans. I feel like the radiator will bring the temp down to a stock level and then the external cooler will then cool it even more. Using the two together should produce a cooler trans temp. I have not tested this to know for sure this what is happing, just the way that I like to do it on a street car. I do wonder if it gets too cold of a temp in the winter. I never think to check it when it's cold out.
What happens behind the scenes?
Step 1, Your main radiator heats the tranny to 200f at any outside temp.
Step 2, The aftermarket just cools it by 25% +-10 when it flows back to the tranny.
There is one fact. In any logic form in a car, Air cannot overcome liquid in terms of temperature exchange. Your engine thermostat is much more powerfull. The main radiator will always overcome the aftermarket air cooler. So even if you overcool your ATF, it will still be in a good operational range.
But someone smart have to define if there is any "Too cold" transmission states in real world and i would like to invite @vorteciroc to give his opinion.
Last edited by Edward Stark; Dec 28, 2021 at 05:15 PM.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,194
Likes: 1,377
From: Nitro Alley
My personal opinion on this is mainly from my experience in Drag Racing.
I have never seen any harm to an Automatic Transmission from the ATF Temperature being too Cold...
However I have seen Performance (Slower Times Drag Racing) left on the table, when the ATF is Colder than 160*F.
I prefer the ATF be in a 160*F to 180*F range when fully warmed up.
I spent many years fighting the Oil system complications of Methanol Injected Engines.
The Engine Oil performed best right around the Boiling-Point of Water (and in Methanol Engines, Water and Alcohol in the Engine Oil can be a massive problem).
From my personal experience and opinions from Years of Chemical Analysis...
I like to have the ATF warm up to about 210*F-215*F for an instance before a Thermostatic-Bypass opens; cooling down to an Operating Range of 160*F - 180*F.
Yes, depending on the Configuration (Radiator, No Radiator, External Cooler, No External Cooler) the Weather can be Cold enough that the ATF Temp remains too Cold.
In most "Street Car" situations, (as Bbond said) I prefer the use of the Radiator, then an External Cooler (possibly even with a Thermostatic-Bypass).
There are situations where I would only use an External Cooler with a Thermostatic-Bypass.
As I said several posts ago... I do not feel there is one solution that works for all situations.
I have never seen any harm to an Automatic Transmission from the ATF Temperature being too Cold...
However I have seen Performance (Slower Times Drag Racing) left on the table, when the ATF is Colder than 160*F.
I prefer the ATF be in a 160*F to 180*F range when fully warmed up.
I spent many years fighting the Oil system complications of Methanol Injected Engines.
The Engine Oil performed best right around the Boiling-Point of Water (and in Methanol Engines, Water and Alcohol in the Engine Oil can be a massive problem).
From my personal experience and opinions from Years of Chemical Analysis...
I like to have the ATF warm up to about 210*F-215*F for an instance before a Thermostatic-Bypass opens; cooling down to an Operating Range of 160*F - 180*F.
Yes, depending on the Configuration (Radiator, No Radiator, External Cooler, No External Cooler) the Weather can be Cold enough that the ATF Temp remains too Cold.
In most "Street Car" situations, (as Bbond said) I prefer the use of the Radiator, then an External Cooler (possibly even with a Thermostatic-Bypass).
There are situations where I would only use an External Cooler with a Thermostatic-Bypass.
As I said several posts ago... I do not feel there is one solution that works for all situations.
Last edited by vorteciroc; Dec 28, 2021 at 06:21 PM.
TECH Regular
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 463
Likes: 179
Tayto, the 4l60e and 4l80e have internal temp senders in the pan from the factory. I think I've done a quick write up on how to use a cheap scanner combo and a smartphone to monitor these temps
for what it is worth...that is usually the only temp I care about or monitor on a street car.
A drag car with turbos that take a while to spool...I'll monitor temp right out of the trans headed to the cooler. Just to see how hot things are getting inside the converter.
Out of the trans=hottest oil right from the converter
Out of the cooler=coolest the oil ever gets
In the pan=good average representation of current trans health/operation.
p.s. I'm not a fan of putting a temp sensor in the line pressure test port.
for what it is worth...that is usually the only temp I care about or monitor on a street car.
A drag car with turbos that take a while to spool...I'll monitor temp right out of the trans headed to the cooler. Just to see how hot things are getting inside the converter.
Out of the trans=hottest oil right from the converter
Out of the cooler=coolest the oil ever gets
In the pan=good average representation of current trans health/operation.
p.s. I'm not a fan of putting a temp sensor in the line pressure test port.
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 301
Likes: 5
From: Miami Beach, Florida
i live in Florida (Miami) and notice ambient air temperature plays a big role. It was 62 degrees the night after Christmas and drove from Orlando back down south and temps never broke above 173, but it seems on an average 85-90 degree day the fluid does not like that.