Goddammit - another 4l60 build
#101
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Do you have a part number?
Because if it's the Sonnax PR valve, you NEED to ream it; it's .010" oversized, and there is no way in hell it's going into the factory bore.
I've been grumbling and bitching about this valve for about two months because it requires a special reamer, and no transmission shops in my area have it, so I had to buy it myself.
#103
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Huh, I had no idea that valve existed...
Although, to be honest with you guys, I didn't even LOOK at the TransGo products, because I've been hearing for years that their stuff is bad/ a waste of money.
How well does that valve work? I'd sure as hell roll the dice on that one for $20+ instead of the $150 or so that I've spent for the Sonnax valve and tool.
(Anybody want their pump reamed for a Sonnax PR Valve? $10, and you pay shipping. I'm not joking.)
In other news, I finally vacuum tested the TCC apply valve in the pump, and the best reading I could get (from the lower half, near the snap ring) was 16" hg.
I'm going to run it, but I saw a mention of a modification on the Sonnax instructions about guys trying to crutch this issue by increasing the size of the signal orifice; is this a worthwhile modification in my situation, and if so, which orifice is it?
Although, to be honest with you guys, I didn't even LOOK at the TransGo products, because I've been hearing for years that their stuff is bad/ a waste of money.
How well does that valve work? I'd sure as hell roll the dice on that one for $20+ instead of the $150 or so that I've spent for the Sonnax valve and tool.
(Anybody want their pump reamed for a Sonnax PR Valve? $10, and you pay shipping. I'm not joking.)
In other news, I finally vacuum tested the TCC apply valve in the pump, and the best reading I could get (from the lower half, near the snap ring) was 16" hg.
I'm going to run it, but I saw a mention of a modification on the Sonnax instructions about guys trying to crutch this issue by increasing the size of the signal orifice; is this a worthwhile modification in my situation, and if so, which orifice is it?
#105
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Update: I thought the 3rd accumulator checkball looked a little rusty from wallowing in the South Texas humidity, so I decided to replace the capsule assembly.
ATRA recommended using a 3/8" tap to take it out, and I said "No way in hell is that going to work," BUT IT ACTUALLY WORKED.
No need to maneuver a hammer inside the case... Although, maybe I just got lucky.
Anyway, I mentioned that the TCC Apply valve could use some help (16" hg vacuum test), and I read about drilling the converter clutch signal orifice larger.
Question: What size should I drill this to, in this situation? The orifice in question is #24 in the ATSG manual.
ATRA recommended using a 3/8" tap to take it out, and I said "No way in hell is that going to work," BUT IT ACTUALLY WORKED.
No need to maneuver a hammer inside the case... Although, maybe I just got lucky.
Anyway, I mentioned that the TCC Apply valve could use some help (16" hg vacuum test), and I read about drilling the converter clutch signal orifice larger.
Question: What size should I drill this to, in this situation? The orifice in question is #24 in the ATSG manual.
#106
TECH Apprentice
Update: I thought the 3rd accumulator checkball looked a little rusty from wallowing in the South Texas humidity, so I decided to replace the capsule assembly.
ATRA recommended using a 3/8" tap to take it out, and I said "No way in hell is that going to work," BUT IT ACTUALLY WORKED.
No need to maneuver a hammer inside the case... Although, maybe I just got lucky.
Anyway, I mentioned that the TCC Apply valve could use some help (16" hg vacuum test), and I read about drilling the converter clutch signal orifice larger.
Question: What size should I drill this to, in this situation? The orifice in question is #24 in the ATSG manual.
ATRA recommended using a 3/8" tap to take it out, and I said "No way in hell is that going to work," BUT IT ACTUALLY WORKED.
No need to maneuver a hammer inside the case... Although, maybe I just got lucky.
Anyway, I mentioned that the TCC Apply valve could use some help (16" hg vacuum test), and I read about drilling the converter clutch signal orifice larger.
Question: What size should I drill this to, in this situation? The orifice in question is #24 in the ATSG manual.
#107
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Sheesh, I paid a little over $5 for my GM capsule; I figured if it's that cheap, why not?
#108
TECH Apprentice
To learn more about it, the Sonnax part, and orifice sizes, like the founding fathers say, "...do a search! You'll find all the answers to your questions that way [without wasting others' time."]
(No Ted, I didn't mean you.)
Last edited by matermark; 06-08-2022 at 12:34 AM.
#109
Moderator
I think Matermark is referring to the Sonnax "Servo Release Check Valve". 5+ years ago this was considered a good upgrade according to many posts on this forum, including my own experience with it and promoting it. In theory, at least based on Sonnax's claims, it seems like a good idea in.
However over time, several pro builders reported customer's trans failures which they blamed on this check valve. IIRC they reported the tiny checkball had gotten stuck and thereby restricted the 3/4 clutch apply fluid. In other words, if/when it wears out, it causes total failure.
The pro builders said it was completely unnecessary when performance upgrades were made. (I.e. with proper shift kit, separator plate drilling and servo springs.)
Also, the Sonnax valve's instruction had you drill the feed hole orifices bigger for the Corvette or similar servos. Plus drilling the 3/4 feed hole in the separator plate larger to compensate for the restriction of this valve. Skipping these steps or doing so incorrectly made things worse than not having it at all.
However over time, several pro builders reported customer's trans failures which they blamed on this check valve. IIRC they reported the tiny checkball had gotten stuck and thereby restricted the 3/4 clutch apply fluid. In other words, if/when it wears out, it causes total failure.
The pro builders said it was completely unnecessary when performance upgrades were made. (I.e. with proper shift kit, separator plate drilling and servo springs.)
Also, the Sonnax valve's instruction had you drill the feed hole orifices bigger for the Corvette or similar servos. Plus drilling the 3/4 feed hole in the separator plate larger to compensate for the restriction of this valve. Skipping these steps or doing so incorrectly made things worse than not having it at all.
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matermark (06-08-2022)
#111
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
After researching the whole TCC orifice size thing, I've decided to not enlarge the stock size; I've been studying the hydraulic schematic, and since I'm using the Fitzall valve ("plug" is actually more like it), the TCC will be getting full line pressure.
Between that, and the newly reamed pressure regulator valve, I don't think 16" hg on the apply valve will really be that consequential... Unless someone wants to talk me out of it.
In other news, I've assembled the pump, and did the MaroonMonster-approved mod of shimming the slide spring with a 5/16" bolt. It went in a lot easier than I thought it would; I used vise-grips and a small hammer. One tap was all it took.
I'll check back with y'all after I check the endplay.
Between that, and the newly reamed pressure regulator valve, I don't think 16" hg on the apply valve will really be that consequential... Unless someone wants to talk me out of it.
In other news, I've assembled the pump, and did the MaroonMonster-approved mod of shimming the slide spring with a 5/16" bolt. It went in a lot easier than I thought it would; I used vise-grips and a small hammer. One tap was all it took.
I'll check back with y'all after I check the endplay.
#112
TECH Apprentice
I may have missed it but what's this going into? If it's something heavy or 4wd see weiner's thread, (sorry, don't know how to spell the rest but just look in the trans section), he did a whole rebuild and added the Corvette servo and other parts and wishes it was milder than it ended up being; I thought you intended this to be a cheap close-to-stock rebuild...
#113
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
I may have missed it but what's this going into? If it's something heavy or 4wd see weiner's thread, (sorry, don't know how to spell the rest but just look in the trans section), he did a whole rebuild and added the Corvette servo and other parts and wishes it was milder than it ended up being; I thought you intended this to be a cheap close-to-stock rebuild...
A rebuild that I ABSOLUTELY do not want to touch again once it's done, hence the sweating over leaks and vacuum numbers.
#114
TECH Addict
After researching the whole TCC orifice size thing, I've decided to not enlarge the stock size; I've been studying the hydraulic schematic, and since I'm using the Fitzall valve ("plug" is actually more like it), the TCC will be getting full line pressure.
Between that, and the newly reamed pressure regulator valve, I don't think 16" hg on the apply valve will really be that consequential... Unless someone wants to talk me out of it.
In other news, I've assembled the pump, and did the MaroonMonster-approved mod of shimming the slide spring with a 5/16" bolt. It went in a lot easier than I thought it would; I used vise-grips and a small hammer. One tap was all it took.
I'll check back with y'all after I check the endplay.
Between that, and the newly reamed pressure regulator valve, I don't think 16" hg on the apply valve will really be that consequential... Unless someone wants to talk me out of it.
In other news, I've assembled the pump, and did the MaroonMonster-approved mod of shimming the slide spring with a 5/16" bolt. It went in a lot easier than I thought it would; I used vise-grips and a small hammer. One tap was all it took.
I'll check back with y'all after I check the endplay.
#116
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Well, yeah, that's pretty much the same way that MaroonMonster described it. He thought (I'm paraphrasing here, he can correct me) the Sonnax spring was overpriced for what it was, and you could accomplish the same goal for cheaper with this ghetto solution.
While this thread is at the top, I've got a question for all of you smart people:
Since I've blocked the feed to the 4th accumulator, and removed the internals, 2BFAST mentioned leaving out the checkball as well.
That is the #1 checkball, correct? (Circled in red)
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bbond105 (06-12-2022)
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bbond105 (06-12-2022)
#118
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
It DOES block the slide slightly at full stroke, maybe about 1/16", maybe less. I'll cut about a 1/4" off of it tomorrow.
Good call, bbond, although I doubt it would have amounted to much in this case. However, if I'd chosen a 1 1/4" bolt, I'd probably be in big trouble at higher rpms.
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bbond105 (06-13-2022)
#120
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Hi guys! I'm not dead, but I'm bringing this thread back from the dead.
My new job has had me busy as hell, and I haven't touched the transmission since the last update.
I'm ready to assemble it, but I have one concern:
I was air-checking the input drum clutches with the reverse drum and front pump installed, and I really didn't like the results.
For the record, the input drum passed ALL of the air checks, but once it is assembled with the reverse drum and pump, I was getting A LOT of leakage on the 3-4 clutch circuit.
Specifically, there was a lot of air blowing out through the forward clutch hole.
This picture will explain what I'm talking about, I hope:
From this thread/ member.
If I block the forward clutch hole, I get good engagement with minimal leakage. I'm using solid teflon rings, and they are not torn/ nicked. I can provide photos.
Does anybody have any insight on this?
My new job has had me busy as hell, and I haven't touched the transmission since the last update.
I'm ready to assemble it, but I have one concern:
I was air-checking the input drum clutches with the reverse drum and front pump installed, and I really didn't like the results.
For the record, the input drum passed ALL of the air checks, but once it is assembled with the reverse drum and pump, I was getting A LOT of leakage on the 3-4 clutch circuit.
Specifically, there was a lot of air blowing out through the forward clutch hole.
This picture will explain what I'm talking about, I hope:
From this thread/ member.
If I block the forward clutch hole, I get good engagement with minimal leakage. I'm using solid teflon rings, and they are not torn/ nicked. I can provide photos.
Does anybody have any insight on this?