I’m no professional, but I’ve successfully built probably at least a hundred or more of these transmissions. I’d like to state my opinion/experience. I stopped using the billet servos because it’s simply not needed. It’s not. They are a little clunky no matter what you do. I understand you make money off the parts and you have a business to run. I get that. I don’t and I’d rather same my people some money. I put a brand new reverse drum in every trans with a wider band. I use the stock servo unless it’s something making good power, then I use a corvette servo. I drill the spacer plate based on what is being done with the vehicle. If you can’t make the band live without a billet servo, you may need some lessons in more than hydraulics.

 

I think maybe a communication difference between myself and some others is ... I build purely for vehicles on the street and strip trying to go 8 and 9 seconds where the trans is going to be rowdy and firm. Whereas i understand some of you guys do that too but many many builders on here arent building for single digits and more a reliable unit that feels nice. Maybe thats where this conflict in ideas originates. Just a thought to better help us understand eachother.

 

So for the units not trying to run 8's or 9's...maybe the billet servos are typically (how might we word this??) TOO HARSH? For most of the lower hp applications anyway.
Simply put for anybody 500hp or lower, even with FACTORY hole sizing on the separator plate...the 1-2 will likely be unnecessarily harsh. *edit: too harsh with a sonnax or superior billet servo*
And considering you build high hp stuff and have seen some damage...you should know that having an unnecessarily hard shift will just cause accelerated hard part wear with no appreciable benefit to the end user. reaction shaft spline wear, sunshell spline wear, etc all get "hammered" for lack of a better word when you set a unit up for unnecessary firmness.

As for your math on the sonnax dual servo vs yours...run the numbers again

And you're right I don't know you, I don't even know who from performabuilt is posting/running the forum page. I'm assuming it's not a 1 man show over there...lots of companies have someone separate from the owner or builder running all of their online and media presence...so I have no idea who we're even talking to.

But to come out and say that people are too clueless to know how to manage a "shift kit hole size" as you've put it
Just baseless and mostly rude to the people who have been on here a long time commenting and sharing.
If that wasn't your intention...fine...but that's how it ended up coming across.

 

We have multiple 8 second cars in the 1/4 that have stock shafts input and output shafts with billet servos. So yes i do understand hard is bad and billet under any circumstance does not have to be harsh if you actually know what your doing. We have over 100 1000+ hp units with billet in them since 2014 and none have had a failure or complaint about harsh shifting or reliability issues. We also have 1000s and 1000s of daily driver heavy hauler type transmissions at 400-500 hp with 0 complaints about driveability with billet servos. There's so much more to building a trans to be the best it can be because building it right is only half the battle, the rest is proper tuning and the correct setup making sure the customer knows exactly what to do. More knowledge is required than just building the trans. You know we aren't some nobody and have one of the best reputations out there. You keep going on about doing things differently... well that's exactly what we are doing and you are the only person that seems to have an issue with that despite being able to see our results online everywhere just because you got offended by how you interpreted my comment. From the 8 second cars to the hauling trucks... they all have billet servos. If you have a hard billet servo shift with a factory hole on the 1-2 your doing something wrong point blank... Either in how your setting up accumulators, accumulator valve, or just not paying attention to the other half of the build in regards to tuning it appropriately. Trust me lol we know what we are doing, your welcome to go search around.

 

I think you're missing the point
If you're posting to help the forum...which the average joe isn't going to get your hand holding on the tune or build or anything else...they're not going to want a billet servo

That's all anybody's been trying to express to you

As I stated way above...yes you can make a billet servo shift just fine in any application if you want...but for 95% of the guys reading on here...its not necessary and not going to be the easiest for their combo

So which are you trying to do here? Be helpful to the average reader? Or just post some of your builds
Obviously we have seen you produce units for high hp stuff. Nobody was doubting or questioning that?

Take the panties out of a twist here.
It's good to have another experienced shop posting, so please continue to do so
Just take it down a few notches with the hostility. We know you have a former employee on here posting. We know you want to upkeep your good rep. So just keep posting tech without the chest puffing and hostility and it'll be a good forum for years just like it already has been

 

Coming to the defense of @performabuilt, business decisions are not only made on the basis of what's best or what's needed, but often on the CUSTOMER WANTS. I'm sure the average, perhaps under-informed, customer want a Billet servo; it just sounds so much COOLER. Same for the servo cover. The steel cover is ugly, but a billet cover convinces you it's a bad-*** transmission. In my career of software and IT development, I often had to implement stupid things that customers thought they needed or thought was best. Not saying a Billet servo is stupid, but seems with proper parts it is not worse, and definitely what customers think they want.

 

Lets just agree to disagree. I put the "chest puffing out there as an example only to explain even at low power or stock power, billet does not have to be harsh and can be just fine and comfortable in a daily driving scenario as well as racing if everything else is taken into account as explained. My goal is only to be helpful and i don't care for how your taking me offensively when im simply counter discussing your opinion in the fact that billet is absolutely not as aggressive as the "experienced" people in here are claiming. All im literally doing is explaining my point of view and my personal experience so stop being emotional. My point in the whole thing is simply - We shouldn't make people scared of a particular part that is proven, we should let them know if they want it it can absolutely work and that is what i'm debating with you about as well as its our literal job to educate and solve issues here on this forum. Always remember a part is a PART of the transmission not the entire build that makes it really work well. Again my youtube explaining simple diagnostics is really what this thread was suppose to be about for questions and it got so far off topic in which i am dissapointed in that... was never a servo or performance discussion.

 

Thank you mr vedit. exactly. Dont make people scared of what they want... make it work for them

 

The Only Sub-Topic that ultimately was not agreed upon was to do with Servo Apply to Release Ratio.
The Corresponding Orificing and Tuning Changes (2-3 Up-Shift Timing as I'm sure you know can be quite tricky with Flares and Binding).


Since I brought it up in Post #12, I believe everyone has been awaiting your Opinions on the Matter.
There is no arguing desired, just your Opinions on the Matter.


So I guess the Members just want to see if it was something that you Understood/ were Familiar with...
Or if maybe Only your Build-Designer/ Engineer knows about the fine details and you are real the Sales focused side of Performabuilt?

We all go about these Builds differently.
There are always multiple ways to obtain a desired result when we have multiple variables...
Nothing necessarily wrong or right when Build Designs differ... They're simply Different.

 

I am Ryan the entire time in every thread and post recently, i have been creating mods and parts for performabuilt since 2018 along with sales and tech support as well as being the primary builder. I did help develop this servo with the original developer and we work side by side creating more parts i haven't even shown anyone yet with more coming that are still in testing. I was never here to share how to build what i build which is what your all asking for. I am here to help diagnose and give advice and that is purely all. Not to go into specifics for the tech heads and other builders about my methods. I'm here for the average joe and customer or people having issues. Don't know how much plainer i can say it. It was a thread for diagnosing and general info from performabuilt not indulging how i make the 4l60e do whatever i want. Sorry to disappoint. Thats all i rly have to say and im about ready to close this thread since it got so far off topic.

 

I would love to read a discussion of this as I know absolutely ZERO about the "Servo Apply to Release ratio"; heck didn't even know that was a thing. Also wonder if it might be different depending upon the power goals of the trans, on the type of band or other parameters. I'll stick my neck out and assume it does depend upon the size of the servos.
Since this is PerformaBuilt's thread and Ryan doesn't want to share what he considers trade secrets (which is totally understandable and we should respect), I suggest someone start a new thread on the topic. Do you Vortec want to start it or should I?

 

Please do proceed and go a head with a Thread.

I am pushing myself really hard right now to Post on the Forum....
But Honestly right now I am having an absolutely horrifying time.


There are several Members here who can contribute on this Topic.
MaroonMonsterLS1 has already made some comments in this Thread on this Topic.

 

I had to go put my boots on because the **** is getting deep.

 

usually when my customer says he wants this or that, and I have to do a bunch of special **** to make it work correctly and charge them more, what I do is explain to them it’s not needed (instead of charging them for **** they don’t need) and either save them money or recommend putting that money towards something that would actually be worthwhile. But like I stated earlier, I’m no professional and I’m not real good at taking money from people just because. I just like to be honest with people. If they insist after I tell them it’s not needed, well that’s different. Shrug. 🤷

 

From your point of view, you are a thousand percent right.
But if you put yourself in the shoes of a regular guy, who has his 4l60e failed on him, you will see thru his eyes that he will want to put anything "best" in the tranny, so it wont happen again and his 4l60e will gain immortality. Youtube is the only reason i got the Sonnax servos lol.

Only because of this forum i learned that "fancy" stuff is no better. Thanks to you guys.

 

Alright, i will add to the 2-4 super servo.

Today, my long sonnax pin arrived and i decided to take off the servo, clean it, inspect it and put the new pin in.

as you know, the 4th super servo comes in 1 piece, assembled.

Here is what ive found in the 4th super servo, after like 10k miles.

Superhold Huh?
i use OEM GM Dex VI.
Servo travel 0.100 now.

 

Hopefully one of the experts here can tell you which (good) seals to use going forward.
I regularly see a company sell a top-quality assembly but then include cost-saving crappy hardware/seals and such. They seem to forget that the quality and reliability of your overall product is generally determined by its weakest link.

 

Is that the Superior servo or Sonnax?

 

Hi Mate

It is a sonnax super hold 4th servo. I bought the whole 2-4 kit together.
Im shocked is not big enough of a word for what i feel now.

Need to find a quick solution because my truck is unusable now because of this.

 

Sonnax does sell that seal set , But if you have one what I would do is install a stock 4th servo, It will serve you just as well and has greater travel too. Never really seen that with a seal looks ike it desentigrated .