4L60E No overdrive
01-03-2005, 08:48 AM
#1
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4L60E No overdrive Re: 4L60E No Overdrive
Put the S-10 on the lift with wheels off floor and in Overdrive hooked up to a Snap-on analyzer and found the following.
Foot on brake .. 1-2 solenoid ON 3-4 sol ON
10 MPH " OFF ON
25 OFF OFF
30 ON OFF
30-60+ ON OFF
No apparent computer codes displayed and at overdrive speed 1-2 is on.
I then checked the servo and all looks ok except that the square o
rings when fitted into the pistions which are then inserted into
their mating bores seem loosely fitted and seems that they would not seal well. The bores and pistons are not worn. These square orings
are factory split at an angle and are the ones provided with t the transtech gasket seal kit. Is this normal. Also I could not fully remove the entire servo i. e, the 2nd applt piston. Perhaps removing the rear cross member to drop the trans lower would provide sufficient space to fully remove entire servo.
Spent most of the day removing the VB and disassembling it. Bolted it back in place and the same ...... no OD. I checked the 3rd Acc. in the servo ball check with a wire poked lightly from the under side of the case and seems free and not plugged. I checked this quite well when I first did the rebuild also.
My value body is a five solenoid one and the ATSG 1993 manual has the earlier four solenoid type. Some of my internals in the VB are different form this manual. Where can I get a VB illustration for the 1998 five solenoid VB. It could be something is assembled incorrectly. The gasket I used was the "C" to the case and spacer plate and the V for the spacer plate to the VB, This is what the Transtec kit stated 1993-2000 "C".
Well all tired out and confused. But persistance will crack it.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Put the S-10 on the lift with wheels off floor and in Overdrive hooked up to a Snap-on analyzer and found the following.
Foot on brake .. 1-2 solenoid ON 3-4 sol ON
10 MPH " OFF ON
25 OFF OFF
30 ON OFF
30-60+ ON OFF
No apparent computer codes displayed and at overdrive speed 1-2 is on.
I then checked the servo and all looks ok except that the square o
rings when fitted into the pistions which are then inserted into
their mating bores seem loosely fitted and seems that they would not seal well. The bores and pistons are not worn. These square orings
are factory split at an angle and are the ones provided with t the transtech gasket seal kit. Is this normal. Also I could not fully remove the entire servo i. e, the 2nd applt piston. Perhaps removing the rear cross member to drop the trans lower would provide sufficient space to fully remove entire servo.
Spent most of the day removing the VB and disassembling it. Bolted it back in place and the same ...... no OD. I checked the 3rd Acc. in the servo ball check with a wire poked lightly from the under side of the case and seems free and not plugged. I checked this quite well when I first did the rebuild also.
My value body is a five solenoid one and the ATSG 1993 manual has the earlier four solenoid type. Some of my internals in the VB are different form this manual. Where can I get a VB illustration for the 1998 five solenoid VB. It could be something is assembled incorrectly. The gasket I used was the "C" to the case and spacer plate and the V for the spacer plate to the VB, This is what the Transtec kit stated 1993-2000 "C".
Well all tired out and confused. But persistance will crack it.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
01-03-2005, 09:55 AM
#2
hey heres the deal on solenoids....1st 1-2 on 2-3 on....2nd 1-2 off 2-3 on, 3rd 1-2 off 2-3 off, 4th 1-2 on -2-3 off...from what you have posted it looks correct. normally if you've got a solenoid problem you'll lose two gears. I noticed you checked your servo and you mention your rings look loose....tell me which way was the piston installed? try your old sealing rings....if you've got second gear I wouldn't worry about getting the servo the rest of the way out..it's not your internals...hope this helps...Dave
01-03-2005, 10:08 AM
#3
hey Jus forgot to mention the 3-2 control solenoid, and control valve...spring in first then the valve...check your solenoid as well..also make sure your accumulator valve is free and not in backwards......
hope this helps....Dave
hope this helps....Dave
01-03-2005, 12:15 PM
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4l60E No Overdrive
Originally Posted by Rock-On
Jus forgot to mention the 3-2 control solenoid, and control valve...spring in first then the valve...check your solenoid as well..also make sure your accumulator valve is free and not in backwards......
hope this helps....Dave
hope this helps....Dave
01-03-2005, 12:59 PM
#5
hey Yes thats what I'm talking about, very common to install backwards...jus pull the solenoid and work the valve back, install spring than valve. they were differant in 93-94, I don't think a magnet will work tho, use a dab of grease on the end of the magnet,or a dowell pin with a dab of grease...hope this helps...Dave
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01-04-2005, 07:17 PM
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4L60E No Overdrive
Originally Posted by Rock-On
Hello jerry thanks for the kind words....... I wonder if this fellow ever fixed his car? Oh well just a thought... Have a good day Dave
Looks like I got too excited since I checked the 3-2 valve & spring assy. and it was installed correctly. Spring first then valve which means the large diamenter end of the valve is against the solenoid end and not the spring.
I have studied my manual and wonder if the 2-4 servo pin (2nd apply piston pin as stated in the manual) is not in contact/in line with the socket in the 2-4 band. If so the pin can extend with the applied 4th hydraulic pressue but no contact thus no apply and no 4th.
Can I have 2nd without fourth since the servo is for 2nd & 4th.
Can I check if the pin is alligned to the band and if not can the band be repositioned without disassemby of the trans and front pump. Also the band locking pin could have not been caputured in the band hole. I remember assembly of the band being difficult as is did not want to stay in place.
Seems that next time .... the pins need to be confirmed before the pump is assembled. What happens if the servo is removed does that band jump out o f positon.
I can not get back to this project till Friday....
01-05-2005, 10:34 AM
#9
hey Hey TreeEm, Generally speaking, if you have 2nd and no fourth, it's not your band or anchor pin. I'd say, from what you have reported that your band, is located properly,with reguards to your pin. One of the things we have to do is stop second guessing everything you've done and stay with the facts.... correct me if I'm wrong with the following facts, we have a good, clean, crisp, 1-2 shift. We have a good, clean, crisp, 2-3 shift.If the answer to the above is yes we have a good 2-4 band, good forward clutch, good 3-4 clutch, good solenoids, good line rise, ect. you've mentioned a snap on scanner...do you have access to a hyd. gage say 0-300lbs?? I'd be hooking that mother up next.....I think when you get all done with this you'll find something really simple with this unit. Hey I had a guy about a month ago with the same problem....he put his accum. valve houseing in up side down, this might be your problem .....in any case your not getting oil to the 4th apply piston,or your getting oil and it is leaking off... ergo the reason for the gage....Lets hook it up and stop guessing, with a few more facts we can fix it...oh, when you say it has no fourth , is it shifting out of third or is it staying in third, or beter yet downshifting to 2nd??? I hope this helps
01-05-2005, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Rock-On
Hey TreeEm, Generally speaking, if you have 2nd and no fourth, it's not your band or anchor pin. I'd say, from what you have reported that your band, is located properly,with reguards to your pin. One of the things we have to do is stop second guessing everything you've done and stay with the facts.... correct me if I'm wrong with the following facts, we have a good, clean, crisp, 1-2 shift. We have a good, clean, crisp, 2-3 shift.If the answer to the above is yes we have a good 2-4 band, good forward clutch, good 3-4 clutch, good solenoids, good line rise, ect. you've mentioned a snap on scanner...do you have access to a hyd. gage say 0-300lbs?? I'd be hooking that mother up next.....I think when you get all done with this you'll find something really simple with this unit. Hey I had a guy about a month ago with the same problem....he put his accum. valve houseing in up side down, this might be your problem .....in any case your not getting oil to the 4th apply piston,or your getting oil and it is leaking off... ergo the reason for the gage....Lets hook it up and stop guessing, with a few more facts we can fix it...oh, when you say it has no fourth , is it shifting out of third or is it staying in third, or beter yet downshifting to 2nd??? I hope this helps
Rock-On,
First of all Thanks for being patient!
I recomfirmed the following tonight to answer some of your specific questions.
1. I have good clean shifts 1-2 and 2-3. From standstill first shift is about 15mph and the second shift is at approxmately 25 mph normal acceleration. No further upshifts. Tried manually shifting all is the same no upshift to 4th. Tried down shift from 4th to third and vice versa no change or shift. Park, reverse and neutral are all fine.
2. I can check fluid pressure but need to wait till I can get lift access later this week. Tap into the tap directly above the shift rod correct. Assume I do not have to tap and thread the servo cover to get the pressure forward of the 4th apply piston? Can you further explain process. What Rpm which gear assume 4th? ASTM suggests a comparison of the pressure control solenoid amps to pressure. It also states a 15 rpm which sounds like an error. Not sure if the Snap On analyzer has the capability of determining amps of pressure control solenoid.
3. Yes when I say no 4th I mean no nothing. No shifting in and out of 3rd nor downshifting to 2nd. Acts just like a three speed. Drove it 60mph same nothing.
4. Certainly agree accurate facts are absolutely necessary.
5. Yes, its something simple but these tend be the hardest to find and can be overlooked.
6. Accumulator 1998 S-10, 2.2l; I assembled as follows 3-4 acc. piston with seal into the case bore with its 7 small protruding legs facing the spacer plate (no spring top or bottom side), "C" gasket then the spacer plate, "V" gasket, 1-2 acc. piston with its 7 small protruding legs toward the transmission pan, then one large spring with a smaller one inside it then acc. cover the bolts. The ASTG instructions provided with the kit had all types of combinaitons. I assembled in accordance to the wear imprints of the two pistions upon the spacer plate.
I probably should have tried to reverse the 1-2 piston.
01-06-2005, 10:14 AM
#11
hey All sounds good...I was referring to the accum. sleeve, thats what can be in upside down. Its Item #372 page 25 of the atsg manual. Look at page 24... see items 20, 17, 20, 17, 17??? If the valve (sleeve) is in up side down it'll block, d4 (17) oil. Heres the deal on line pressure...lets just get a gage and start by comparing pressures, lets see what the pressures are doing when it calls for a shift.....Thats a good starting point. The tapped out cover is an excellant idea, if you've got access to one thats great....I've got several around here, I use to put them in all my trannys but it was overkill...so we stopped, (not to mention we shipped a couple without plugs and boy we had some pissed people) Tell ya what if you get into this this weekend and need some help pick up the phone and call me @ 940-594-8064, I'll be in and out of the shop all weekend.....hope this helps...Dave
