WOT in OD
Don't confuse racing in 4th and shifting into 4th at wot which occours a tad over 130mph or higher depending on gears.
3-4 wot shifts are very hard on the weak clutch pack. Try to limit them as much as possible.
3-4 wot shifts are very hard on the weak clutch pack. Try to limit them as much as possible.
Yeah w/ my 3.73 rear i shift into 4th at 112 approx. With 2.73 it was like 130.
I'm wishing I had gone 3.42 gears. Thanks for the info guys it helped clear up my question.
I'm wishing I had gone 3.42 gears. Thanks for the info guys it helped clear up my question.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 329
Likes: 0
From: Albuquerque, NM
So would a FLP, Rossler, etc. tranny fix this problem? I emailed FLP 3 times about their 4L65e Level 5 tranny being able to withstand WOT downshifts on the street and highway but they never responded. They say it will reliably hold 725 rwhp though so I don't know, maybe they'll hold up fine. Especially if you have bolt-on power levels.
ok, the stock clutch pack is weak, i know, that was the first thing to go in my old trans. Also, the second gear clutch is also a weak link so avoiding a 4-2 downshift would be advised.
My question is if i have a built trans, with a 12 clutch 3-4 pack, in theory it should hold more. So, would it be still recommendable to do a WOT 3-4 shift.
Also, if no, would it be ok to, right before the 3-4 shift point, reduce tps% to 90% or 85%, shift, than go WOT?
My question is if i have a built trans, with a 12 clutch 3-4 pack, in theory it should hold more. So, would it be still recommendable to do a WOT 3-4 shift.
Also, if no, would it be ok to, right before the 3-4 shift point, reduce tps% to 90% or 85%, shift, than go WOT?
11 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,524
Likes: 1
From: The South
Even an aftermarket tranny won't fix the weak clutch pack problems. I have the Maximimum Evil (stage 3 by Dr Evil, through LS1 speed) and have only executed one WOT 3-4 shift, and only did that because I didn't realize I was already going that fast until it shifted. I do believe I will make it endure one HIGH speed run in the future though. 
I also don't do as many 4-2's as I use to. The clutches just don't have enough friction surface area to hold this power for any length of time, and the line pressure doesn't come up as fast as it should in certain situations, etc etc. This is what I have read. My tranny is advertised as being capable of holding 850 hp and 800 lbs of torque when you use a hardened input shaft (which I don't have and don't need for power I'll be making anytime soon) and Larry still said that the people who run them hard regularly (in the 10's) have them refreshed annually with things such as new bands/clutches.
There have been quite a few threads about this and related topics, with some interesting information. Search around and read through them.
I also don't do as many 4-2's as I use to. The clutches just don't have enough friction surface area to hold this power for any length of time, and the line pressure doesn't come up as fast as it should in certain situations, etc etc. This is what I have read. My tranny is advertised as being capable of holding 850 hp and 800 lbs of torque when you use a hardened input shaft (which I don't have and don't need for power I'll be making anytime soon) and Larry still said that the people who run them hard regularly (in the 10's) have them refreshed annually with things such as new bands/clutches.There have been quite a few threads about this and related topics, with some interesting information. Search around and read through them.
Originally Posted by nrayome98TA
Yeah w/ my 3.73 rear i shift into 4th at 112 approx. With 2.73 it was like 130.
I'm wishing I had gone 3.42 gears. Thanks for the info guys it helped clear up my question.
I'm wishing I had gone 3.42 gears. Thanks for the info guys it helped clear up my question.
My friends has 4.10s in his A4 TA and his car runs out of gear in 3rd at 119mph, so a 3.73 should still be in the 120s if not the low 130s.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo 11 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,524
Likes: 1
From: The South
I agree that those numbers don't look right at all.
Shift into fourth at 130 with 2.73's? I have 3.23's and made it to about 140 in third.
http://www.f-body.org/gears/
Shift into fourth at 130 with 2.73's? I have 3.23's and made it to about 140 in third.
http://www.f-body.org/gears/
Originally Posted by obZidian
ok, the stock clutch pack is weak, i know, that was the first thing to go in my old trans. Also, the second gear clutch is also a weak link so avoiding a 4-2 downshift would be advised.
My question is if i have a built trans, with a 12 clutch 3-4 pack, in theory it should hold more. So, would it be still recommendable to do a WOT 3-4 shift.
Also, if no, would it be ok to, right before the 3-4 shift point, reduce tps% to 90% or 85%, shift, than go WOT?
My question is if i have a built trans, with a 12 clutch 3-4 pack, in theory it should hold more. So, would it be still recommendable to do a WOT 3-4 shift.
Also, if no, would it be ok to, right before the 3-4 shift point, reduce tps% to 90% or 85%, shift, than go WOT?
I am so confused. So is it better to gun in it OD or 3rd gear? Also if the clutch packs go do I need to get a whole new transmission and how much do they run?? I go WOT in all gears every day so Im concerned a little.
11 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,524
Likes: 1
From: The South
Originally Posted by StealthFormula
I am so confused. So is it better to gun in it OD or 3rd gear?
It's also hard on the tranny to go from 4-2 at WOT, just not as bad as going into OD.
If you really want to know, SEARCH. It has been answered before, I just don't remember it well enough to repeat and get it right.
11 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,524
Likes: 1
From: The South
Actually I believe 3-2 might be worse than 4-2...
I try not to worry about the downshifting too much. If I'm in a situation that calls for it such as passing or running from a roll, I do it, plain and simple. However if I'm just out F-ing around having fun with the car I either give it just enough that it shifts into third and wait till I'm >80 mph before getting the pedal to the floor, slow down enough it shifts into first (<30 mph) or start from a dig.
I try not to worry about the downshifting too much. If I'm in a situation that calls for it such as passing or running from a roll, I do it, plain and simple. However if I'm just out F-ing around having fun with the car I either give it just enough that it shifts into third and wait till I'm >80 mph before getting the pedal to the floor, slow down enough it shifts into first (<30 mph) or start from a dig.
on 26.1" tires my car does 150 in 3rd (3.23 gear) with the converter locked at 7000rpms so no need to do a wot 3-4 shift. As far as downshifting, i never just floor it while in o/d....i'll gas it enuff to kick down into 3rd and then mat it. I assume you guys are roll racing though or something. i broke either a sprag or planetary...either way it was a hard part failure but my 3/4 clutch pack was still going strong
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,216
Likes: 236
From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic-transmission/293017-manual-vs-wot-downshifts.html
From James B.:
A 4 to 2 downshift is easier for a 4L60-E to do than a 3-2 downshift. It is a single event of disengaging the 3-4 clutch pack. Downshifting from 3 to 2 has to release the 3-4 clutch pack and engage the band at the same time. There is a valve specifically for doing this just to make sure it doesn't let the engine over-rev trying to pull that off.
Keep in mind that mechanically the 4L60-E is only a 2-speed auto with overdrive.
From James B.:
A 4 to 2 downshift is easier for a 4L60-E to do than a 3-2 downshift. It is a single event of disengaging the 3-4 clutch pack. Downshifting from 3 to 2 has to release the 3-4 clutch pack and engage the band at the same time. There is a valve specifically for doing this just to make sure it doesn't let the engine over-rev trying to pull that off.
Keep in mind that mechanically the 4L60-E is only a 2-speed auto with overdrive.
speedo is spot on according to radar setup by the highway dept.
I shift at 6000 rpm into 4th at 112-113.
I have all my shifts at approx. 6000 rpm with the hpp3.
I shift at 6000 rpm into 4th at 112-113.
I have all my shifts at approx. 6000 rpm with the hpp3.
Last edited by nrayome98TA; Aug 18, 2005 at 01:58 AM.
I just did the gear, tire size calculator and it says at 6000 rpm in 3rd I should be at 125.
But my car says 6000 rpm and 113 mph. At 60 mph my speedo is on because they have radar that shows you how fast you're going setup on the side of the highway.
Somethings funky maybe I have my tire size with the hpp3 slightly off and at 60 its on but the higher speed it is off?
How accurate are the stock speedo and tach though?
But my car says 6000 rpm and 113 mph. At 60 mph my speedo is on because they have radar that shows you how fast you're going setup on the side of the highway.
Somethings funky maybe I have my tire size with the hpp3 slightly off and at 60 its on but the higher speed it is off?
How accurate are the stock speedo and tach though?
Hey, this is interesting. I drive in D on my TA all the time. Once once have i gone fast enuff to shift it into 4th which i will not do again after reading this. So when i want to go on a high speed run, leave it in 3?
I usually like to cruise at about 25-30 and floor ir from D, this is the 2-1 correct? It friggen plants you and i love it, is this correct? Also at about what speed roll are you at and floor it to do the 4-2 or 3-2? Just curious so i dont do it. While cruising i can never tell what gear im in so i need some MPH help. I have the 3.23's. So i should basically leave it in D when jsut cruising around town, and throw it in 3 on WOT runs, 2-1 downshifts and at the track? Thanks
I usually like to cruise at about 25-30 and floor ir from D, this is the 2-1 correct? It friggen plants you and i love it, is this correct? Also at about what speed roll are you at and floor it to do the 4-2 or 3-2? Just curious so i dont do it. While cruising i can never tell what gear im in so i need some MPH help. I have the 3.23's. So i should basically leave it in D when jsut cruising around town, and throw it in 3 on WOT runs, 2-1 downshifts and at the track? Thanks
__________________
Featuring 6 different turbo kits for your F-body!
Check us out on Facebook at: www.facebook.com/HuronSpeed
Featuring 6 different turbo kits for your F-body!
Check us out on Facebook at: www.facebook.com/HuronSpeed