You really are ignorant. You're right as far as 3600rpm is 3600 rpm.....or 4000rpm is 4000rpm. But what you fail to realize is effeciency has a lot to do with that. Let me say that again....EFFECIENCY. Just so you know......

I ran my 1.97 60ft 8.35 @ 85mph with:
lid, slicks and 3.73's

I ran my 1.60 60ft 7.700 @ 87mph one week later with:
lid, slicks, 3.73's and a Yank SS4000 —nothing else
So far its ran a best of 1.58 60ft 7.62 @ 88.80

 

Hello pot, this is the kettle



Here is something that may come as quite a shock to you but other companies are allowed to have decent effiency. If I remember correctly, someone tested the TCI 3500 to be around 92% effecient. What's the Yank SS3600? 96% maybe? Now how big of an impact will a 4% increase make on a 330 rwhp bolt-on car? I doubt we have to break out the calculators to learn that the difference is very, very minimal. I'm not sure how Fuddle ranks in effiency but from the track results I would say it's decent as well. I grant you that as power increases so does the difference 4% would make. But on 375 rwhp and less it's still pretty minimal.

Is Yank more effecient then most? Yes. You would know this if you actually read my posts and not just skim through them. Are they that far above the other big companies to cause huge performance increases? No. If anyone was to switch from a TCI SSF3500 to a Yank SS3600 (or a TCI 4000 to a Yank SS4000, ect) they would be VERY disappointed in the performance gain vs the money spent. For me right now to switch to a Yank SS3600 would cost somewhere around $1200 and I might get a tenth faster (maybe).

You had slicks and could only manage a 1.97 60' time? No offense, but that's terrible. I managed a 2.01 60' with just a lid and on regular street tires. 245 BFG KDWS (snow tires no less, Lol). And I know there have been people to pull off 1.9's on street tires.

I have a feeling the weather was slightly better that second week too. This is actually starting to make a little more sense. Your gains are not all attatched to the converter. I put some of them on weather (temperature is not the only part of weather conditions that affect performance) and you got alot better at launching. Driver mod played a role on those gains. Because I guarantee you that your car had at least a 1.8 60' in it BEFORE the Yank 4000 stall. If you factor in to how much better your times would be by shaving off two tenths in your 60' and compare that number to what you got after the converter then it starts to look more like "normal" gains and less like "divine intervention".

Nice 60' BTW (referring to the 1.58).

 

darrensls1

{Here is something that may come as quite a shock to you but other companies are allowed to have decent effiency. If I remember correctly, someone tested the TCI 3500 to be around 92% effecient. What's the Yank SS3600? 96% maybe? Now how big of an impact will a 4% increase make on a 330 rwhp bolt-on car? I doubt we have to break out the calculators to learn that the difference is very, very minimal. I'm not sure how Fuddle ranks in effiency but from the track results I would say it's decent as well. I grant you that as power increases so does the difference 4% would make. But on 375 rwhp and less it's still pretty minimal.

Is Yank more effecient then most? Yes. You would know this if you actually read my posts and not just skim through them. Are they that far above the other big companies to cause huge performance increases? No. If anyone was to switch from a TCI SSF3500 to a Yank SS3600 (or a TCI 4000 to a Yank SS4000, ect) they would be VERY disappointed in the performance gain vs the money spent. For me right now to switch to a Yank SS3600 would cost somewhere around $1200 and I might get a tenth faster (maybe).}


Yank
When it comes to all converters with the same stall and STR being the same you are Wrong that it like All 350 CID motors are the same as they are 350s CID not so! We have many converters that have the same stall speeds and STR ratios
you can have a converter that is say 3500 stall in a 13",12" 11", 10.5",10", 9.5",9",8.5", 8"and 7" size with the same STR but they will not work or have the same driving feel!
The STR in Yank converters is rated at a set FT.LBS. number that we use for testing this is the same test that GM Powertrain uses to rate their converters,It is a SAE that is the standard for converter testing in the auto field
In fact our testing is done by GM Powertrain and has been done for Yank for close to 18 years (The only aftermarket converter builder that is allowed to use their dynos)
WE have the best converter efficiency through the range of all converters that we have tested and the eff. is rated at two points in a converter:
at the point where the stator stops making extra power (this is the coupling point eff.) and at max RPM eff. the average RPM eff. diff. between these points is a real gain in performance!, and this area is what makes the Yank converter a better product!
All of Yanks ratings on Stall and STR are correct the Truth!
Yank converters are priced within a few dollars of other companys as the SS 3600 is priced at $697.00 at this time!
I am not suprised at the time and speed improvements, as we hear this all the time a drop of .6 is easy to get and we have reports of well over 1.3 loss in et in LS-1 powered cars, our 3000 stall will yield a drop of .5
the cost of a Yank converter is small campared to the price of other mods that will give you the same drop in ET.
Donot forget the only link between the engine and transmission is the converter, all your power must past thru it. Why lose any at all!

 

Just because you didnt see the same results from your TCI doesnt mean you have to analyze my gains the way you have been. It gained what it gained. If you'd like to think the weather went from one extreme to another in one week between my runs, then thats ok. It went from a 1.9 to a 1.6. And it went from 8.35 to 7.70. And the weather/track conditions were close to identical. The problem w/ putting slicks on w/ a stock converter is it kills the 60ft. But I did it in order to see the improvement after the converter was installed. Also, how would you know the car had a 1.8 60ft in it w/o the converter. You sound like the ricers...."I know it coulda done this...". The car does what it does. There is no "coulda", "shoulda" or anything like that.

 

4 percent increase is huge i dunno about you but i would be willing to pay for that increase and improved reliability, 4 percent on a 350rwhp car is 14hp/trq. what does a fuddle or tci cost 400-450 and the yank is 700, so $300 dollars more for 14hp, that is about what an ls6 intake will give you. Not really that much of a difference is an understatement, that is another tenth and 1/2. plus the more you mod the more that percent goes into play as you did state. i understand what you are saying that yank is not the only converter that has decent results and you are absolutely right, but why buy something inferior when there is a much better product that justifies your extra money spent. each to his/her own

 

Exacly. And spec_j has done exactly what you have with similar mods and a 4000 stall FUDDLE. And he paid a lot less money.

The idea that a Yank will pick up .14 over a Fuddle is unproven and doesn't match the results of all the Fuddle owners on here who have replaced their Yanks. If you believe Yanks are magically more reliable, well then you have info that no one else has even seen.

 

i have a fuddle 4000 400$ converter.... i ran it for the first time today.. mind u this is there lowest performance converter.. and no one especially mecoudl beleieve the way that converter hit off the line... amazing for 400$

the warranty's are great too.. and there upgrade policy..

i say call fuddle if u havn't

i would say go with a 3200-3500 personally if street is more important.. but for the track bigger is better.. if u plan on getting 3.73's anytime soon i would go 3600-3800 as the gears will help it feel tighter on the street still

 

You refuse to admit the obvious. Your car had more in it before you added the converter. That explains the uncommonly high gains. You can deny it all you want but that doesn't make it any less true. According to you then it's ok for me to take a bad 60' run prior to a converter and compare it to a good 60' run after. Hey that works for me. Lemme give you some of my TCI 3500 numbers now bro.

Before converter 13.9 @ 104 on a 2.3 60'

After converter 13.0 @ 106 on a 1.9 60'

So the TCI SSF3500 is good for about .9 gain. I kind of like this logic

 

Absolutely true. But not all Yanks are $700. Some are over $1,000. But your point is well taken. Many people would pay $300-400 for another tenth. And at higher HP levels the increase also goes up. I will probably own a Yank someday but when I do it won't be for a 4L60E. I'm looking for a TH400 setup eventually and that's when I'll be looking for the most effiecient converter I can get especially since the TH400 will add weight to the vehicle.

But the point was not that some would or would not pay $300+ for a tenth. The point was Nickz28 wants people to believe that Yanks double the performance of other converters. Not true. He was also rude and arrogant in the way he says it. Kind of like anyone who buys anything but a Yank is a fool, slow, wasted thier money, ect. Also not true.

I like Yanks. I'll probably run one some day. I just won't let Nick mislead any unsuspecting people into thinking that if they buy a Yank they'll gain a full second in the 1/4. Then when they only gain .5 or .6 it'll be a huge disappointment. His gains are fantastic but they are certainly not typical. And as has been discussed in the last few posts I believe the key to his gains lie in the before and after 60' as well as the converter itself.

 

Like I already said......The car did what it did. Who are you to say the car had more in it? You dont know that. And 13.0 @ 106 after a converter is sad.

 

Who are you to say it didn't have more in it? Just because that was the best you could do does not mean it's the best the car had to offer. My numbers were not real. It was merely an example to show you how stupid your argument looks.

I'll tell you what I do know.

2.0 60' is not even full potential for street tires in a stock car. Pretty darn close but people have done just a hair better. So your gains were a combonation of the converter AND the slicks. That's fine. I have seen plenty of people gain .7 to a full second with a converter/sticky tire combo over the old stock converter/street tire setups. So in that context your car did as well as would be expected. But it's right in line of what other brand 4000 stalls (with slicks) can do. So you're not at twice the performance gains no matter which way you want to argue this.

 

Comprehension>you

My comparison passes both had the same setup. Slicks and stock verter, then slicks and Yank verter. And I'm talking .7 in the 1/8....not in the 1/4. I bet if you werent so cheap on the parts you buy for your car, you'd see close to the same gains.

 

Unlike you, I don't need to resort to personal attacks. I am above that so I won't reply to your childish remarks. But clearly you are not understanding what I am saying. If your 60' time on ET streets is the same as what people are getting with street tires then how does that not solidify my argument? Your gains are a huge mix of converter and tires. Yes your tires were on prior, but the results you achieved in your "before" run are not what I would call typical. I can't see how people on stock eagle F1's and less HP can out 60' you with slicks? I would think you could brake stall to 2K and floor it off the line to a nice 1.8 or so.

Regardless, going from a 2.0 60' to a 1.6 is something you need sticky tires to do. Many people that get a converter with a bolt-on car will get the converter first and notice a gain of .5 on the same street tires. It takes alot of finesse and the 60' isn't overly impressive but that's the nature of the beast. Then if/when they upgrade to sticky tires the gains get better with better launches.

If someone installed the converter first and then ET streets later then does that person not end up with the same type of setup as you? Why could I not count that as a valid argument?

TCI + ET streets + 3.73's =

Bain got a TCI 3800 to hit a 1.49-1.55 on 3.73's, slicks, bolt-ons and what looks like 100 lbs of weight reduction. Looks to me like the TCI 3800 is not a bad choice for getting impressive numbers when you know how to launch. With the right setup, TCI and Fuddle can and are very competitive with Yank in overall track results. If they weren't then Yank would have driven them all out of the LS1 market a long time ago. How these facts still elude you is a mystery to me.

I'm not trying to annoy you but this information must me presented to keep unsuspecting people from thinking they'll get more or less then what the products are capable of by themselves.

 

It's actually more like a few hundred. Speed Inc is advertising the SS3600 for $775.00 right now. If your offering $697 directly then that's a sweet deal. Is this a new regular price or temporary sale price though?

But TCI, Fuddle and PI have dropped people by .6 many times as well. It's not like you can say Yank is the only comany making converters with the capability to drop an ET by .6. Can you?

But that's a very broad blanket statement. I could make the same type of statement about any converter with the right conditions. For example, If I take a car with a big cam like a MS3 that was still running on the stock converter (heaven forbid, I know) and regular street tires. Then I add a 4000 stall converter (insert any brand) and slicks the gains would be astronomical. But you have to consider all the circumstances such as the car was severly understalled for where that motor was making power. Plus it went from 0 traction to lots-o-traction.

If someone upgrades a bone stock LS1 right now to say a Yank SS4000 can they expect to drop 1.3 off thier ET?

TCI 3000 has a typical ET loss of .5 as well. So does Fuddle from what I hear. That's just the typical gain anyone can expect from upping the 1800 stocker stall to a 3000.


Yes and no. N20 for example But seriously I am very impressed with Yanks turn around in customer satisfaction and attempts to be more competitive in price via sales, GP or what have you. But it is possible to alter that with the right circumstances. If I was bone stock down to the paper filter and only had $1,100 to spend I could do this:

Buy a Yank SS33600, trans cooler and pay for an install (if reasonably priced).

or

Buy a TCI/Fuddle, trans cooler, pay for install and have just enough left over for a lid and pair of 245 Nittos.

I think we know which one will be a little quicker. But then you can always save up and buy that stuff to compliment the Yank later on, I know. It was just an example of gains for a very specific budget.

Can't argue with that. In my specific case I bought my converter brand new from a guy who changed his mind about keeping his car an auto. He decided to do the M6 conversion (traitor!). I picked up the converter for $350 still new in the box. With the money saved from a full price SS3600 I was able to buy the Nittos and pay for a badly needed dyno tune. I just couldn't pass that up. My wife and three kids makes it very hard to spend the kind of money I would like to on my car.

I had to lie to my wife about the headers and tell her my exhuast was leaking and I needed this to stay emission legal I am soooooo bad. Don't worry though, when I swap to a TH400 setup (sometime) I'll be calling you about getting the most effiecient and appropriate Yank stall for the setup I'll have which will hopefully include a 100-150 wetshot and FM12 (maybe FM13) cam.

 

You dont understand what slicks do to a LS1 w/ a stock converter do you??? It kills the motor coming outta the hole. It "bogs" it down. On street tires, they give, so the motor is able to rev up b/c the tires are slipping or spinning. If you want to piece together your car with inferior parts, go right on ahead. You'll be the first one replacing them. Its really not that hard to understand. You can pay once for better quality or pay over and over for a less expensive product. You're also not the first one not to believe my gains. In the beginning of this thread I had sad I have installed and seen the improvements of different brand converters. I have to say that Yank takes it. You more than likely have only really seen the improvement of your own converter. Oh..yeah, I didnt make a personal attack. I made a factual statement. And if you were above it like you say you are, you wouldnt have even addressed it..RIGHT??

 

ok ok back to the subject this isnt a bashing contest.. this guy needs help on a choice of converters not which one is better

and i basically have this as my opinion..

if you have plenty of money and have a LOT done to your car then get a yank
if your car is a basic joe blow bolt-on car that one day want to spray it or cam it and have a lil bit of $$ to spend then get a TCI
and if your car has as stated above..joe blow bolt ons.. and drive it everyday and this is your only car so its gotta last and cant afford a YANK but want to liven up you a4 then get a fuddle.

and if your not sure what size to get im sure if you called them and told them what your tryin to do and what your working with they will give you want your looking for

but in my near future (or when my tranny gives out) ill be buying a 3500 fuddle.. cant beat the per. for the $ and the warranty you cant beat it.... just my .02

 

I'm personally going the cheaper route on my bolt on car and ordered a fuddle 3400...they are reasonably priced and have a good reputation.

 

Did you even try brake stalling it without doing a burnout first? I'm guessing a better 60' was waiting to be had. Regardless, that is a mute point.

2.0 is a street tire 60' time. Do you argue this? 1.5-1.6 is a sticky tire time. Do you argue this? If you answer no twice then my point was made.

I have every intention of replacing them. Always did. Why? Because the 4L60E is a very weak transmission. TH400 has always been part of the long term plan. If you want to invest money in a PoS 4L60E then go right ahead. Myself, I'm going to enjoy mine till it dies and then do it right the first time. I've seen way too many people here talking about how they are on thier 3rd or 4th built 4L60E. That won't be me.

But couldn't a Corvette owner say the same thing to us about the cars we bought? Couldn't someone running a built 4L80E or TH400 say the same thing to us about even buying a performance part for a 4L60E? Now the big question. If I get a few years of impressive track results while I save for a TH400, did I not in the end save money by not buying the most expensive converter for a transmission that can not be used in my future setup? Like Mr. Miyagi used to say, "Not everyting is as seen".

I believe the gains are possible. I just don't believe the stall is 100% responsible. That stall needs traction as does any 4000 stall with a high STR. I showed you what 60' Bain pulled using a similair setup as you with a TCI3800. Why is his results supposed to be less impressive then yours? You have never once addressed any of the quotes I found showing TCI having just as impressive results. You act like they don't exist. I keep at this until you stop ignoring other peoples success with alternative converters.

See I'm a little confused about this. I noticed this in your profile that you're 20. This indicates to me that your fairly new to F-bodies and drag racing in general. I mean it's not like you can say you have been drag racing for 10 or 15 years right? So at your young age, when did all this converter brand testing happen?

You joined ls1tech on 8/31/2005 and based on your first thread in September you had recently gotten your car.Then you started a thread back on 10/24/05 titled "first quarter mile pass in the car". This was with the SS4000 and you made reference to the pass before it on the stock converter much like you did here. But what I don't get is when did you install/try all these other brands? Between 8/31 and 10/24? That's less then two months and you never mentioned any other converters going into your car. So in reality, you don't have first had experience with any converter other then stock and SS4000 right?

I myself have no first hand experience other then TCI 3500 and stock. But then again, I never said otherwise. But I can search and I can read. That's how I know things like the 4L60E will never work for me, Trans brakes are a good thing, 10 bolts last longer in an A4 but won't last forever and Yank, TCI, Fuddle, PI are all competitive.

As have you.

You definately made a personal attack that had nothing to do with facts. But that's ok because I expect nothing less from someone as young as yourself. I was that age too once. I may argue points and debate numbers but I will not call you names. Pointing out your negative behavior is not the same as resorting to it myself. So yes I am above the name calling.

Heck, I even gave you a compliment several posts back.

 

jst I am very sorry for how side tracked this thread got. Bottom line sir is that a TCI 3500 or Fuddle stall of your choice will be more then sufficient to gain you a solid .5 (more with sticky tires) and keep the check book balanced. But if you can swing the $697 that Yank has mentioned in this thread then the SS3600 will definately serve you well.

Good luck and don't forget a tranny cooler is a must. The bigger the better.

 

darrensls1

Yank was the first in the LS-1 market, we built GM powertrain converters for the camaro test mule cars running the ls1 engine and the converters we designed to work best in all driving conditions it was our Y3000 this was in 1996.
Tci started building LS1 converters in 2000 and Fuddle in late 2004 and Percision in late 1998
So we have built to date more than 5000 LS-1 converters alone! more than any converter co.
We have been testing designs for a long time and you are correct that you can get close to the same times from a lower priced units, as many of our converters have been looked at over the years and copied, but the MPH is the real story.
The same as you can run a stock shortblock and go as fast as a forged unit but it is for How long and how often till it self destroys!

We allow you 2 years to try to destroy our unit not 90 days or 1 year
and our overall warrenty rate is at .3 % this is Very low
We will have NEW pricing that will blow you away!
do not buy anything till you see listed on our site sometime next week

and here is one of many letters we get about our product and it is from a person that has tested lot of converters of all makes( inc. ones listed above)

http://www.converter.cc/testimonials...sh/patgish.htm

Thanks