Vigilante or Fuddle?
Originally Posted by Gold Z
You are comparing a Cadillac to a Cavalier....Vig is the highest quality converter on the market.
Originally Posted by Gold Z
You are comparing a Cadillac to a Cavalier....Vig is the highest quality converter on the market.
Though I don't have any myself, I like my Yank and so does just about everyone else who has one. Definetely one of the top notch units on the market.
I think people need to do more research on those kinda claims. There are other guys out there like Neal Chance that make awesome conveters as well, they are just expensive and is why you don't see more people with them. I've used Vig, Yank and now Neal Chance and have had positive experiance with all of them.
Dan
Dan
With Neal Chance you are taking a chance. With Fuddle, even if he has a warranty he might fuddle up your car.
Look, Yank has actuall retired GM engineering experience. Yank has dyno-tested their products. Yank has been around since the 1980's and provides a diverse product line-up; more than just converters. They have a firm market position and aren't going to disappear one day like some startup kid on the internet.
Why risk it for little price difference?
Look, Yank has actuall retired GM engineering experience. Yank has dyno-tested their products. Yank has been around since the 1980's and provides a diverse product line-up; more than just converters. They have a firm market position and aren't going to disappear one day like some startup kid on the internet.
Why risk it for little price difference?
TCI OR VIG
fuddle as openly said they outsource if anybody wnats to prove it just do a search i know ive read it a few times in the past
vig is expensive but good product
yank is sometimes good but they did seem to have a quality controll issue for a while
TCI well, i've never read anything bad about them.. matter of fact all ive ever read is how good their cust service is...
i really think you need to look at prices and goals here though i mean fuddle and vig are 2 very different converters for different power levles
personally i wouldnet buy a vig for a stock tranny because the tranny is gonna blow before the converter will and then youll need to rebuilt the converter.. my choice was a tci ssf 3500
when my tranny lets go then i will go with a tci ultimate ssf 4000 ... if your car is just gonna be a bolton car any will do but with any converter your really on your own.. it it craps out and take sout your tranny no vendor is gonan rebuilt your tranny (just converter) this is whi i chose tci to me their ssf series is a mid to high end product that is gonna be very reliable foe anytihng a stock 4l60e would heold up to BUT when i build i high end tranny i will choose a ultimate ssf 4000 being i need a better converter to match my stronger tranny
fuddle as openly said they outsource if anybody wnats to prove it just do a search i know ive read it a few times in the past
vig is expensive but good product
yank is sometimes good but they did seem to have a quality controll issue for a while
TCI well, i've never read anything bad about them.. matter of fact all ive ever read is how good their cust service is...
i really think you need to look at prices and goals here though i mean fuddle and vig are 2 very different converters for different power levles
personally i wouldnet buy a vig for a stock tranny because the tranny is gonna blow before the converter will and then youll need to rebuilt the converter.. my choice was a tci ssf 3500
when my tranny lets go then i will go with a tci ultimate ssf 4000 ... if your car is just gonna be a bolton car any will do but with any converter your really on your own.. it it craps out and take sout your tranny no vendor is gonan rebuilt your tranny (just converter) this is whi i chose tci to me their ssf series is a mid to high end product that is gonna be very reliable foe anytihng a stock 4l60e would heold up to BUT when i build i high end tranny i will choose a ultimate ssf 4000 being i need a better converter to match my stronger tranny
TECH Resident
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 960
Likes: 1
From: Central, FL
thats funny....
compair apples to apples (same stall speed)
as for n/a or spray... gator 99 t/a went faster with a better 60' and mph with a fuddle 3800 over the yank 4000 on the spray
I have a buddy who had a vig 3200, (nice converter, I like them) then went stg 3 5.3's and a MS3 V2 and a yank 3600, broke the stator, sent it back and they should have warrantied it but didnt, then he bought a 1000 dallor "custom" 3600 yank, and that one sucks...
he is going with a fuddle now after seeing a few friends who's cars have went faster with fuddle
I went 12.2 on a 1.59 60' in my 00 t/a
stock ls1 intake
stock pulley
stock non-ported tb
stock cam
lid
pacesetter headers
custom y w/ merge
magnaflow catback
fuddle 4000
HPT tuned by me
MT drag radials
100% stock suspension and still had the front swaybar hooked up
3750#'s full weight loaded Trans Am
compair apples to apples (same stall speed)
as for n/a or spray... gator 99 t/a went faster with a better 60' and mph with a fuddle 3800 over the yank 4000 on the spray
I have a buddy who had a vig 3200, (nice converter, I like them) then went stg 3 5.3's and a MS3 V2 and a yank 3600, broke the stator, sent it back and they should have warrantied it but didnt, then he bought a 1000 dallor "custom" 3600 yank, and that one sucks...
he is going with a fuddle now after seeing a few friends who's cars have went faster with fuddle
I went 12.2 on a 1.59 60' in my 00 t/a
stock ls1 intake
stock pulley
stock non-ported tb
stock cam
lid
pacesetter headers
custom y w/ merge
magnaflow catback
fuddle 4000
HPT tuned by me
MT drag radials
100% stock suspension and still had the front swaybar hooked up
3750#'s full weight loaded Trans Am
I cant speak for the vig...but i have had both a Yank SY3500 and currently a Fuddle 3000 TC. The Yank was to loose for a daily driver, the fuddle is tighter and they both performed the same at the track. My best times on both converters were 11.9@117 with a 1.8 60'.
If you are on a budget, go with the Fuddle.
If you are on a budget, go with the Fuddle.
TECH Resident
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 960
Likes: 1
From: Central, FL
Originally Posted by JSTAN
I cant speak for the vig...but i have had both a Yank SY3500 and currently a Fuddle 3000 TC. The Yank was to loose for a daily driver, the fuddle is tighter and they both performed the same at the track. My best times on both converters were 11.9@117 with a 1.8 60'.
If you are on a budget, go with the Fuddle.
If you are on a budget, go with the Fuddle.
Thats what I like to hear!! 
my fuddle 4K flashes to 4250 from a 2500 rpm foot brake stall and is 30X's tighter than the old SSF 3500
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11 Second Club
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,847
Likes: 1
From: Sandwich, IL
I agree with the people who said you get what you pay for. If you're on a budget and just want decent peformance for a fair value then Fuddle or TCI is for you. If you're a money is no object/gotta have the best kind of guy then Vig or Yank is the way to go.
Any aftermarket converter of 3000 or higher is going to be well worth it. Personally I think Yank is the best and would highly recommend talking to them before you commit to buying any converter. Thier quality, effiency and selection are all top notch. They had customer service issues in the past but everything I read now says that they are now among the best is customer service.
If you want the "best" call Yank.
If you want the best "bang for the buck" then call Fuddle.
Good luck.
Any aftermarket converter of 3000 or higher is going to be well worth it. Personally I think Yank is the best and would highly recommend talking to them before you commit to buying any converter. Thier quality, effiency and selection are all top notch. They had customer service issues in the past but everything I read now says that they are now among the best is customer service.
If you want the "best" call Yank.
If you want the best "bang for the buck" then call Fuddle.
Good luck.
11 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 639
Likes: 0
From: Norcal
I have experience with four different converters in 3 different cars...
My very first was a Yank ST3500, it rocked....best 60 with a bolt on/cam car, bone stock rear suspension, 1.58. My tranny finally blew and a converted to a M6.
My girlfriends car, she started off with a vig 3200, it may have been wrong for her set up...I thought it was very soft, her best time with it was 11.9x@117, the 60 was a high 1.6 or low 1.7. She switched to a TCI4400 and in very good air went 11.36@120 1.53 60' with no other changes.
I just picked up an 01 Z/28 that has an old 3800 TCS' verter in it. It is way looser than the 4400 in my gf's car. On the dyno it only lost 10 rwhp between locked and unlocked. My girlfriends car was about 20 rwhp for the Vig and TCI
I think the biggest thing is to get a verter to match your set up!
My very first was a Yank ST3500, it rocked....best 60 with a bolt on/cam car, bone stock rear suspension, 1.58. My tranny finally blew and a converted to a M6.
My girlfriends car, she started off with a vig 3200, it may have been wrong for her set up...I thought it was very soft, her best time with it was 11.9x@117, the 60 was a high 1.6 or low 1.7. She switched to a TCI4400 and in very good air went 11.36@120 1.53 60' with no other changes.
I just picked up an 01 Z/28 that has an old 3800 TCS' verter in it. It is way looser than the 4400 in my gf's car. On the dyno it only lost 10 rwhp between locked and unlocked. My girlfriends car was about 20 rwhp for the Vig and TCI
I think the biggest thing is to get a verter to match your set up!
Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
With Neal Chance you are taking a chance.
Dan
Originally Posted by LS1 Eddie
I'm trying to decide which brand to go with. The warranty for Fuddle is great, but who makes a better converter? Let me know becuase it's beccoming difficult to choose.
-Melissa
11 Second Club
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,847
Likes: 1
From: Sandwich, IL
Originally Posted by ws6sojuiced01
Fuddle has been great for me, I know people that are much more happy with there fuddle than the yank they had ,so to each his own.
If they really feel that way then they are the exception and by far not the rule.
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
From: savannah
Originally Posted by Fast GTO
I havn't heard of anyone that could point out a single meaningful reason to get one TC over another.
And how can you not buy from a company that offers a two year no questions ask warranty like fuddle?
And how can you not buy from a company that offers a two year no questions ask warranty like fuddle?
how about better reliablity, a quicker 60', more mph, and less heat ... that swhat a better converter could offer
but i have to admit i personally don't like yank.. yea they can build a good converter but they have also proven to be unreliable (at building a good converter) everybody son forgets the big mess they had less than a year ago.. also i still see plenty of people complaining about their trannys going after yank swaps
to me tci is a reliable and proven choice for a solid converter at a fair price
put another way tci has a great track reccord, great cust service, and great prices
everybody else may be good now and then but its not too often that i hear someone say their tci was built deffective
if there was no tci then id choose vig but i think fuddle and yank would be my last chioces.. fuddle beacuse their a budget converter and yank because i'v had a bad expirence with them and read way too many horror storied to justify the occasional die hard's bragging fest
but i have to admit i personally don't like yank.. yea they can build a good converter but they have also proven to be unreliable (at building a good converter) everybody son forgets the big mess they had less than a year ago.. also i still see plenty of people complaining about their trannys going after yank swaps
to me tci is a reliable and proven choice for a solid converter at a fair price
put another way tci has a great track reccord, great cust service, and great prices
everybody else may be good now and then but its not too often that i hear someone say their tci was built deffective
if there was no tci then id choose vig but i think fuddle and yank would be my last chioces.. fuddle beacuse their a budget converter and yank because i'v had a bad expirence with them and read way too many horror storied to justify the occasional die hard's bragging fest
Originally Posted by Fast GTO
I havn't heard of anyone that could point out a single meaningful reason to get one TC over another.
And how can you not buy from a company that offers a two year no questions ask warranty like fuddle?
And how can you not buy from a company that offers a two year no questions ask warranty like fuddle?
11 Second Club
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,847
Likes: 1
From: Sandwich, IL
Originally Posted by Fast GTO
I havn't heard of anyone that could point out a single meaningful reason to get one TC over another.
And how can you not buy from a company that offers a two year no questions ask warranty like fuddle?
And how can you not buy from a company that offers a two year no questions ask warranty like fuddle?
Yank Converters, Inc. will warrant that each new billet torque converter sold by Yank or an authorized distributor will be free from defects in workmanship and material for a period of 2 years from the date of manufacture. Yank Converters, Inc. will repair or replace, at their discretion, the defective converter at no charge to the customer. The customer is responsible for any freight or shipping charges incurred by the return of defective parts. Customers must submit copy of installation/repair order within 10 days of the installation in order for the warranty to be valid.
While there may be "questions asked" Yank will still warranty thier converters for the same two years as long as the converter was defective and not misused or improperly installed.
Also from Yanks website:
Stall Torque Ratios: Only two companies in the performance converter business have the capabilities and resources to test the actual stall torque ratios and efficiencies of the converters they produce. Yank and Precision Industries. All the other companies are making false claims based on untested combinations. Don't be fooled. Yank has all of their converters tested for actual efficiency and stall torque ratio by using General Motors' $1 million dollar transmission dyno. Yank has spent years in the efforts to bring you converters with the highest stall torque ratios and the highest efficiencies. Rarely do stall torque ratios exceed 2.5. It takes specially machined stators (that are modified in-house by Yank) and specific pump/turbine combinations to get STRs above 2.5 along with a converter that has efficiency above 95%. We're here to tell you, it's not easy. Even if the competition copied our internal components 100%, they still lack the knowledge of which internal clearances achieve the ultimate blend of torque multiplication and efficiency.
Efficiency: It is rare for a race converter to have efficiency that meets or exceeds a stock unit. Yank rates their converter efficiency in the rpm ranges most used by performance enthusiasts: 5000-6000 rpms. Many of Yank's competitors' converters do not achieve maximum efficiency until they exceed 10,000 rpms! That's crazy. Don't be mislead by false claims. Yank's efficiency claims are tested by General Motors for accuracy. The Truth!
The extra $ for Yank is going towards better parts, better testing and most importantly better effiency (which in turn increases performance). Yank has claimed this (as well as many of thier loyal customers) time and time again. So far no one from TCI, PI or Fuddle have been able to challenge this. Think about it, if anyone could put out a better product for half the price then Yank would be run right out of the F-body market.
Is more effiency worth hundreds of dollars? To some it is and others it's not. I myself went with TCI to save the extra cash. Nothing wrong with buying bang for the buck mods. Pacesetter, Patriot and Fuddle all make damn good products. But Kooks, AFR and Yank makes better products with bigger price tags.