Is my Fuddle torque converter going bad?
10-05-2006, 06:26 AM
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Is my Fuddle torque converter going bad? I'd like some opinions on whether or not these symptoms I'm having are clues to my torque converter going bad. I had a 2800 converter installed along with a Rock-On tranny into my truck about 4-5 months ago. The tranny is vacuum modulated and the converter only locks up at cruising speeds, non-WOT lock up converter.
Since day one, the converter has not liked to been locked below 55-mph. I set it up with HP Tuners to lock at 40-55 only at 6 and 12% throttle which didn't seem to cause any problems. If you set the TPS higher, the converter would tap or maybe better described as a flutter. Push on the throttle even more and you get that drone or thud sounding noise. This has always bothered me, but I figured I'd live with it.
For the first time last night, the converter was tapping/fluttering way too much. On heavy acceleration from a stop I would get a flutter. The symptoms were also appearing a lot during lock up. I can say, definetly more so than before.
On heavy acceleration at moving speeds the noises got violently loud as RPM increased.
Lastly, on one attempt to go WOT while the converter was locked up (55-mph), it was if the converter would not unlock as it did nothing for a split second.
Anyones opinions or help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Kyle
By the way, be truthful. I'm ready to move on, so any hard truths wont hurt. As soon as this thread pans out, I'll decide if a Yank converter is going in or not.
Since day one, the converter has not liked to been locked below 55-mph. I set it up with HP Tuners to lock at 40-55 only at 6 and 12% throttle which didn't seem to cause any problems. If you set the TPS higher, the converter would tap or maybe better described as a flutter. Push on the throttle even more and you get that drone or thud sounding noise. This has always bothered me, but I figured I'd live with it.
For the first time last night, the converter was tapping/fluttering way too much. On heavy acceleration from a stop I would get a flutter. The symptoms were also appearing a lot during lock up. I can say, definetly more so than before.
On heavy acceleration at moving speeds the noises got violently loud as RPM increased.
Lastly, on one attempt to go WOT while the converter was locked up (55-mph), it was if the converter would not unlock as it did nothing for a split second.
Anyones opinions or help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Kyle
By the way, be truthful. I'm ready to move on, so any hard truths wont hurt. As soon as this thread pans out, I'll decide if a Yank converter is going in or not.
Last edited by Sport Side; 10-05-2006 at 06:36 AM.
10-05-2006, 07:35 AM
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the only company I would trust in front of my FLT is Precision Industries... yes, you'll pay for it, but I absolutely enjoy driving my 3200.... not too tight, not too loose... just right there in the middle where you want it.... Yank is not a bad company either, but the way PI builds their converters cant be beat 
Last edited by silver-mod-o; 10-05-2006 at 07:40 AM.
10-05-2006, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by silver-mod-o
the only company I would trust in front of my FLT is Precision Industries... yes, you'll pay for it, but I absolutely enjoy driving my 3200.... not too tight, not too loose... just right there in the middle where you want it.... Yank is not a bad company either, but the way PI builds their converters cant be beat
10-05-2006, 08:46 AM
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Kyle,
Im leaning towards a Yank as my fuddle is a bit like yours. At hwy sppeds while locked up if I go WOT there is about a 1-2 second delay before acceleration. Ive had my tuner look at it and I havent had any luck. Is that what you experience?
I also get alot of chatter but some of that has been cured by tuning the tcc apply tables. I can point you in the direction of how to tune for that if interested. I found posts from Jimmyblue on here to be quite helpful about these issues.
Im leaning towards a Yank as my fuddle is a bit like yours. At hwy sppeds while locked up if I go WOT there is about a 1-2 second delay before acceleration. Ive had my tuner look at it and I havent had any luck. Is that what you experience?
I also get alot of chatter but some of that has been cured by tuning the tcc apply tables. I can point you in the direction of how to tune for that if interested. I found posts from Jimmyblue on here to be quite helpful about these issues.
10-05-2006, 09:34 AM
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I've noticed with my Fuddle (HP/Street version)
that there does seem to be a fraction of a second
before it "gets up on plane", the torque / acceleration
comes up after you load it up. Don't see anything in
the motor logs that account for it, feels like the
multiplication climbs up rather than jumping up.
Have no explanation, only perception. One thing I
got from John was, that the torque multiplication
is very dependent on running tolerances and if
there is a lot of play inside you might have a low
multiplication and efficiency. Maybe once it gets
under load (the fluidic parts) it shifts to a better
place in its own sweet time. Or something. On
mine it's only a momentary sub-par pull that wakes
up in a tick, so I'm not bothered enough to do
anything. But there could be worse cases. I did
not ever notice this kind of thing with my old TCI.
But they're fairly different stall/STR combos as well
as a fundamentally different clutch.
Now, the noise on hard acceleration should not
have to do with the TCC as it's out of play at
those kind of TPS. Not to say something inside
(or outside, like flexplate) couldn't have given
up. If you can log, start by logging all of the
states, slips and shafts, see if anything bad is
up in the gearbox or if it's solid and everything
has to do with the clutch. Note the TCC mode
doesn't log well in HPTuners and you may want
to eyeball it real time when the flutter or grind
goes on, see if it's "Locked" or just thinking about
it etc.
that there does seem to be a fraction of a second
before it "gets up on plane", the torque / acceleration
comes up after you load it up. Don't see anything in
the motor logs that account for it, feels like the
multiplication climbs up rather than jumping up.
Have no explanation, only perception. One thing I
got from John was, that the torque multiplication
is very dependent on running tolerances and if
there is a lot of play inside you might have a low
multiplication and efficiency. Maybe once it gets
under load (the fluidic parts) it shifts to a better
place in its own sweet time. Or something. On
mine it's only a momentary sub-par pull that wakes
up in a tick, so I'm not bothered enough to do
anything. But there could be worse cases. I did
not ever notice this kind of thing with my old TCI.
But they're fairly different stall/STR combos as well
as a fundamentally different clutch.
Now, the noise on hard acceleration should not
have to do with the TCC as it's out of play at
those kind of TPS. Not to say something inside
(or outside, like flexplate) couldn't have given
up. If you can log, start by logging all of the
states, slips and shafts, see if anything bad is
up in the gearbox or if it's solid and everything
has to do with the clutch. Note the TCC mode
doesn't log well in HPTuners and you may want
to eyeball it real time when the flutter or grind
goes on, see if it's "Locked" or just thinking about
it etc.
10-05-2006, 02:53 PM
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So possibly it is the flexplate? I'm unsure as of now because of the way it begins to tap under hard acceleration or wot, while the converter is unlocked.
However the clatter is still around and has actually increased while the converter is locked.
I'm wondering if it is time for a new 'verter and flexplate. Any opinions?
Thank you,
Kyle
However the clatter is still around and has actually increased while the converter is locked.
I'm wondering if it is time for a new 'verter and flexplate. Any opinions?
Thank you,
Kyle
10-05-2006, 10:19 PM
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Mine started to do that EXACT same thing.. I'd go WOT and the car would shudder then come out of lockup and chatter more comming out of lockup at part throttle. really it felt like the converter was slipping out of lockup before the PCM took it out of lockup. For the first couple thousand miles it was fine though but here is the kicker.. under 50 miles after mine started to chatter more and have lockup problems the converter broke and took my FLT trans with it.
Now with a fresh gone through FLT and a Vig 3600 its 100X better than the fuddle ever was. Lockup on the vig is perfect and smoth. no chatter. no WOT problems and the car pulls hard as hell on the top compared to the Fuddle and the tune was not changed from the fuddle to the Vig either.
I'd get that converter out of there asap for a good converter and just inspect the flexplate. fyi.. When My flexplate was cracked though it made a loud clank clank sound on startup and not a taping sound. Also heard other cars with cracked flexplates and the also made a hollow clank clank sound as well.
Now with a fresh gone through FLT and a Vig 3600 its 100X better than the fuddle ever was. Lockup on the vig is perfect and smoth. no chatter. no WOT problems and the car pulls hard as hell on the top compared to the Fuddle and the tune was not changed from the fuddle to the Vig either.
I'd get that converter out of there asap for a good converter and just inspect the flexplate. fyi.. When My flexplate was cracked though it made a loud clank clank sound on startup and not a taping sound. Also heard other cars with cracked flexplates and the also made a hollow clank clank sound as well.
Last edited by sixvi6-camaro; 10-05-2006 at 10:27 PM. Reason: my crap typing skills and spelling.
