Fuddle is a new sponsor on the Corvette Forum
11-15-2006, 02:05 PM
#21
I am putting more power to the ground than anyone in this thread and I am doing it with a fuddle converter. as my power level has increased, I have had John tighten my converter up a time or two as we went along. it hasn't let me down yet, nor has John. I, like everyone else was unable to get ahold of him for a while too. but he is back on track now. just wait and see.
05gto60, if John paid for your labor to swap the converter, he went waaaay above and beyond. I believe that ANYONE else in the converter business would have told you to get bent on the labor. notice everyone's warranty says that they are only liable for replacement of a defective part and not for any damages it might cause....how about it performabuilt or yank??? you're in the business. if a customer calls you up and says "your converter isn't working right in my car", are you going to send them another converter and pay for the R&R labor sight unseen???? now remember many of your customers will see your answer. you'd better be prepared to be called on this by customers if you say "yes". I'd bet that you or any other business owner would say "no, our warranty only covers replacement of the defective part". EVERYONE sends out a bad part from time to time....EVERYONE. it's how you deal with those problems that say something about you. again, John has had some major setbacks, but he is back on track now and taking care of business.
I hope all of you people that think "you get what you pay for" sleep better at night because you payed more money for something. would you have felt better if fuddle had came here selling thousand dollar converters??? I'm sure yank and tci didn't start out selling at their current prices. you have to start small selling at low enough prices to build a base. then as demand for your product goes up, so does the price. that's just business. if an unknown company came on here selling thousand dollar converters, who would buy one???....anyone here??? John just started out trying to build his company by giving people good value for their money. and he didn't try to rape them like some do. he gave people another option. does anyone on here think that a certain big name companies new lower pricing was because they decided that they already had enough money???
like it or not, competition is good for the customer.
05gto60, if John paid for your labor to swap the converter, he went waaaay above and beyond. I believe that ANYONE else in the converter business would have told you to get bent on the labor. notice everyone's warranty says that they are only liable for replacement of a defective part and not for any damages it might cause....how about it performabuilt or yank??? you're in the business. if a customer calls you up and says "your converter isn't working right in my car", are you going to send them another converter and pay for the R&R labor sight unseen???? now remember many of your customers will see your answer. you'd better be prepared to be called on this by customers if you say "yes". I'd bet that you or any other business owner would say "no, our warranty only covers replacement of the defective part". EVERYONE sends out a bad part from time to time....EVERYONE. it's how you deal with those problems that say something about you. again, John has had some major setbacks, but he is back on track now and taking care of business.
I hope all of you people that think "you get what you pay for" sleep better at night because you payed more money for something. would you have felt better if fuddle had came here selling thousand dollar converters??? I'm sure yank and tci didn't start out selling at their current prices. you have to start small selling at low enough prices to build a base. then as demand for your product goes up, so does the price. that's just business. if an unknown company came on here selling thousand dollar converters, who would buy one???....anyone here??? John just started out trying to build his company by giving people good value for their money. and he didn't try to rape them like some do. he gave people another option. does anyone on here think that a certain big name companies new lower pricing was because they decided that they already had enough money???
like it or not, competition is good for the customer. Last edited by sr71; 11-15-2006 at 02:28 PM. Reason: my spelling sucks more than usual today
11-15-2006, 02:15 PM
#22
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what I dont understand is, for everyone who's having converter problems, doesnt Fuddle offer at least a yr warranty on their TCs? If something went wrong, send it in and make them fix it, then do like a lot of guys do, sell the thing to someone else and get a different TC
11-15-2006, 02:16 PM
#23
Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
That is what kills me. So many people say he is a stand-up guy even after all the excuses, long-waits, product failures, and repetitive lies. They had to practically beg him to send out another converter and he only did so to make more sales possible and for keep him from being beat. His website is totally bogus and supplies no contact info. That is probably because you are more likey to find him in a resturant serving food than a rebuilders shop. The infamous HP line of converters he kept researching cough was all just hype. He never did any research. He just bought a different brand of converters to sell to people and held them for awhile drumming up research. He never even tried to hide it as if you looked at the boxes his product came in it had a different manufacturers name on it with just a sticker over it.
If people only knew the thruth about him he would not be alive today.
If people only knew the thruth about him he would not be alive today.
you're the biggest fuddle hater of all and you have absolutely no reason to be involved since you don't nor have you ever owned a fuddle converter. you're just a career hater....end of story.
11-15-2006, 02:19 PM
#24
Fuddle cannot respond to pm's, he is locked out on that so use email.
I would please ask that if anyone here has a valid issue with Fuddle post it in the Sponsor Feedback forum. It is the best way for John at Fuddle to see them and respond to you in email.
I would please ask that if anyone here has a valid issue with Fuddle post it in the Sponsor Feedback forum. It is the best way for John at Fuddle to see them and respond to you in email.
11-15-2006, 02:21 PM
#25
Very good point and i would agree normally no one would of course there are exstreme exceptions but they would be considered on a individual basis Im sure,
Generally though Your correct it would not be possible for any company to pay labor etc on a change out due to a failure since many places out there doin r&i charge near the price of the converter which when I hear about that I wonder what these people are thinking when paying those prices , W e had a guy buy a trans all went well but he told me he atually paid over 600 dollars to have out tranny put in , no extra warranty nothing I was like wow,
Now with the relativly low profit margins in these items I dont see how anyone could do that on a regular basis in the performance market, I mean performance parts wether they be converters , transmissions, etc do break and its allways about pushing the envelope .
And your correct on another thing also competition though not good for the bottom line is good for you the consumer,
Generally though Your correct it would not be possible for any company to pay labor etc on a change out due to a failure since many places out there doin r&i charge near the price of the converter which when I hear about that I wonder what these people are thinking when paying those prices , W e had a guy buy a trans all went well but he told me he atually paid over 600 dollars to have out tranny put in , no extra warranty nothing I was like wow,
Now with the relativly low profit margins in these items I dont see how anyone could do that on a regular basis in the performance market, I mean performance parts wether they be converters , transmissions, etc do break and its allways about pushing the envelope .
And your correct on another thing also competition though not good for the bottom line is good for you the consumer,
__________________
11-15-2006, 02:48 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by sixvi6-camaro
My fuddle broke and took my FLT tranny with it. During that time they dissapeared so there was nothing I could do. Months later Fuddle magically came back but its too late for me to do anyhitng now. Learned my lesson the expensive way. Half *** anyhitng and it will bite you in the *** later. I went to a Vig 3600 which feels and performs 100x better.
Im sure the many many people here who had problems are probably the reason why Fuddle never posts on LS1Tech. Fuddle can't be that niave to think that no one from here ever reads the CF though.
Im sure the many many people here who had problems are probably the reason why Fuddle never posts on LS1Tech. Fuddle can't be that niave to think that no one from here ever reads the CF though.
We are going to let them come back on, but if anyone has an old warranty issue that needs atttention please pm Gearhed or myself so we can pursue it.
ADMIN
11-15-2006, 02:52 PM
#27
Originally Posted by sr71
then there would be VERY few people left alive in the parts business. few companies out there build things in house. alot buy from a supplier and resell. go complain to eagle specaiality products because they don't make their own engine components. they sell millions of dollars worth every year. add all of your cam companies to that list since they don't make their own lifters. heck, add all of the automakers to that list too since thay all use outsourced parts. your argument is pointless.
you're the biggest fuddle hater of all and you have absolutely no reason to be involved since you don't nor have you ever owned a fuddle converter. you're just a career hater....end of story.
you're the biggest fuddle hater of all and you have absolutely no reason to be involved since you don't nor have you ever owned a fuddle converter. you're just a career hater....end of story.
Your arguement is pointless. You don't see the difference.
Fuddle doesn't even touch the converters. He gets them in a box and sends them to you. He didn't even design or alter the order you could have gotten from someone FOR LESS. He is just being an insurance man playing the odds. That is what he does. He sells you insurance. He doesn't know anything about this market.
The companies you mentioned get parts from other people and build, mod, desgin, cad, ect. They actually do work. Not order something else's product and hand it to you blindly. If you can't see that then reconsider your post.
Further, I would like to stick to the facts. Not hate. Not name-calling. Not defending bad business practices. The facts. I have no desire to argue with someone immature enough to demoralize themselves to the childish level of name calling, twisting words, and favourtism.
As for the legitimate business comment, go check with the IRS or the local phone book. He isn't in the BBB either. The chamber of commerence? Nope not there. Funny, huh?
As for me not attacking anyone else, maybe that means that I only attack people who are deserving of such treatment. I don't go around saying anything bad about other people as due to their actions.
Further, I have said good things about Fuddle in the past. You would have noticed that if you did actually know what I posted. I have said in the past that you got what you paid for with Fuddle. And that they were good for what you paid. I said if you didn't have the money they were an option.
Here you go off again naming random companies which have nothing to do with this and acting as if that is supposed to dispatch me.
Also, specing the converters. HA! There is much than Fuddle just naming a stall. Many factors go into making a converter. Two turbines rated the same by GM can produce two completely different results. Many clearances are set. It isn't just build me a 3000 stall. That is not specing a converter.
TROLLING:
and I quote:
"Trolling is a concept usually involving attempting to get some entity to do something that is NOT in its own best interest"
Last edited by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed; 11-15-2006 at 03:38 PM.
11-15-2006, 03:04 PM
#28
Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
Your arguement is pointless. You don't see the difference.
Fuddle doesn't even touch the converters. He gets them in a box and sends them to you. He didn't even design or alter the order you could have gotten from someone FOR LESS. He is just being an insurance man playing the odds. That is what he does. He sells you insurance. He doesn't know anything about this market.
The companies you mentioned get parts from other people and build, mod, desgin, cad, ect. They actually do work. Not order something else's product and hand it to you blindly. If you can't see that then reconsider your post.
Fuddle doesn't even touch the converters. He gets them in a box and sends them to you. He didn't even design or alter the order you could have gotten from someone FOR LESS. He is just being an insurance man playing the odds. That is what he does. He sells you insurance. He doesn't know anything about this market.
The companies you mentioned get parts from other people and build, mod, desgin, cad, ect. They actually do work. Not order something else's product and hand it to you blindly. If you can't see that then reconsider your post.
if you buy a set of eagle rods, they aren't built by eagle. but they are built to eagle's specs. there are alot of big companies that build things for smaller companies, yet won't sell to the public. try to buy a set of eagle rods from their suppliers. let alone at a lower price.
Last edited by sr71; 11-15-2006 at 03:27 PM.
11-15-2006, 03:10 PM
#29
Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
Further, I would like to stick to the facts. Not hate. Not name-calling. Not defending bad business practices. The facts. I have no desire to argue with someone immature enough to demoralize themselves to the childish level of name calling, twisting words, and favourtism.
11-15-2006, 03:26 PM
#30
[QUOTE=sr71]there has been no name calling. just the facts. you have never said one positive word about fuddle. you come into every thread about fuddle and bash. you do not own a fuddle converter nor have you had any dealings with the company. all of this "bad business practices" is just your opinion. [QUOTE]
I strongly agree here. Isn't this type of behavior considered "TROLLING"? 2002_z28_Six_Speed, if you haven't done business w/ Fuddle then stay out of it.
My Fuddle has maybe 1K miles on it. John selected it based on a list of parameters he reviewed w/ me over the phone before I placed the order. So, he is involved & not just a middle man. Reading the issues that some have had has been a concern. I'd like to follow this thread in hopes that a constructive solution to thoughs w/ problems can be found. As the other sponsor/Fuddle competitor suggested; @ the very least, for past customers, it's better for Fuddle to remain in business. Am glad to see that the Moderators are offering assistance.
I strongly agree here. Isn't this type of behavior considered "TROLLING"? 2002_z28_Six_Speed, if you haven't done business w/ Fuddle then stay out of it.
My Fuddle has maybe 1K miles on it. John selected it based on a list of parameters he reviewed w/ me over the phone before I placed the order. So, he is involved & not just a middle man. Reading the issues that some have had has been a concern. I'd like to follow this thread in hopes that a constructive solution to thoughs w/ problems can be found. As the other sponsor/Fuddle competitor suggested; @ the very least, for past customers, it's better for Fuddle to remain in business. Am glad to see that the Moderators are offering assistance.
11-15-2006, 03:38 PM
#31
Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
Your arguement is pointless. You don't see the difference.
Fuddle doesn't even touch the converters. He gets them in a box and sends them to you. He didn't even design or alter the order you could have gotten from someone FOR LESS. He is just being an insurance man playing the odds. That is what he does. He sells you insurance. He doesn't know anything about this market.
The companies you mentioned get parts from other people and build, mod, desgin, cad, ect. They actually do work. Not order something else's product and hand it to you blindly. If you can't see that then reconsider your post.
Further, I would like to stick to the facts. Not hate. Not name-calling. Not defending bad business practices. The facts. I have no desire to argue with someone immature enough to demoralize themselves to the childish level of name calling, twisting words, and favourtism.
As for the legitimate business comment, go check with the IRS or the local phone book. He isn't in the BBB either. The chamber of commerence? Nope not there. Funny, huh?
As for me not attacking anyone else, maybe that means that I only attack people who are deserving of such treatment. I don't go around saying anything bad about other people as due to their actions.
Further, I have said good things about Fuddle in the past. You would have noticed that if you did actually know what I posted. I have said in the past that you got what you paid for with Fuddle. And that they were good for what you paid. I said if you didn't have the money they were an option.
Here you go off again naming random companies which have nothing to do with this and acting as if that is supposed to dispatch me.
Also, specing the converters. HA! There is much than Fuddle just naming a stall. Many factors go into making a converter. Two turbines rated the same by GM can produce two completely different results. Many clearances are set. It isn't just build me a 3000 stall. That is not specing a converter.
Fuddle doesn't even touch the converters. He gets them in a box and sends them to you. He didn't even design or alter the order you could have gotten from someone FOR LESS. He is just being an insurance man playing the odds. That is what he does. He sells you insurance. He doesn't know anything about this market.
The companies you mentioned get parts from other people and build, mod, desgin, cad, ect. They actually do work. Not order something else's product and hand it to you blindly. If you can't see that then reconsider your post.
Further, I would like to stick to the facts. Not hate. Not name-calling. Not defending bad business practices. The facts. I have no desire to argue with someone immature enough to demoralize themselves to the childish level of name calling, twisting words, and favourtism.
As for the legitimate business comment, go check with the IRS or the local phone book. He isn't in the BBB either. The chamber of commerence? Nope not there. Funny, huh?
As for me not attacking anyone else, maybe that means that I only attack people who are deserving of such treatment. I don't go around saying anything bad about other people as due to their actions.
Further, I have said good things about Fuddle in the past. You would have noticed that if you did actually know what I posted. I have said in the past that you got what you paid for with Fuddle. And that they were good for what you paid. I said if you didn't have the money they were an option.
Here you go off again naming random companies which have nothing to do with this and acting as if that is supposed to dispatch me.
Also, specing the converters. HA! There is much than Fuddle just naming a stall. Many factors go into making a converter. Two turbines rated the same by GM can produce two completely different results. Many clearances are set. It isn't just build me a 3000 stall. That is not specing a converter.
11-15-2006, 03:45 PM
#32
Tech Resident
Originally Posted by sr71
there's no law against being in business with a reputable, well established company. actually, John specs the converters. he decides what combo of parts is used in the converter to achieve the desired results. the converters are then built to HIS specs. then he sends them out to his customers....and most importantly, John is the man that makes sure that your converter lives up to your expectations. if it doesn't he goes above and beyond to make things right. .
if you buy a set of eagle rods, they aren't built by eagle. but they are built to eagle's specs. there are alot of big companies that build things for smaller companies, yet won't sell to the public. try to buy a set of eagle rods from their suppliers. let alone at a lower price.
if you buy a set of eagle rods, they aren't built by eagle. but they are built to eagle's specs. there are alot of big companies that build things for smaller companies, yet won't sell to the public. try to buy a set of eagle rods from their suppliers. let alone at a lower price.
fuddle may have offered a good product at one time, or so it seemed, but there are a lot of problems with them right now. apparently they don't hold up like a yank/vig.
11-15-2006, 03:52 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by GEARHED
Fuddle cannot respond to pm's, he is locked out on that so use email.
Why is there such a difference between Yank/Vig and Fuddle price tag? I was told by Yank that they have around $300 dollars in parts alone in their converters. If the fuddles are made as well as some folks say you'd assume he had close to that much in parts as well. If that is the case how can he sell his converters for so much less? I think Taco made a valid point about the number of customer complaints about Fuddle vs. Yank/Vig. I know you say that the complaints for other companies were handled out of the public eye. Well if I've learned anything about this and others site's, it's that people aren't afraid to call out major sponsors when they have a beef. Assuming that Yank and Vig are immune to this type of critizism seems niave<sp> to me. If folks are unhappy w/ a product they usually make it known. Finally, I've only seen one or two posts in the sponsor feedback area that says "fuddle rocks again". For as many people that were complaining, you'd figure there would be more than a couple folks willing to set the record straight that Fuddle was back?
Last edited by zspot98; 11-15-2006 at 04:10 PM.
11-15-2006, 03:54 PM
#34
Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369
if this is true and john is the man and puts so much research into the converters, how come there are more complaints about fuddle converters breaking recently than yank, vig and tci put together? i mean, these are MUCH bigger companies than little old fuddle and sell many, many, many more converters. so again, if fuddle is so great, than how come there are more broken fuddle reports/contact problems than all of much larger yank, PI and tci put together on these boards?
fuddle may have offered a good product at one time, or so it seemed, but there are a lot of problems with them right now. apparently they don't hold up like a yank/vig.
fuddle may have offered a good product at one time, or so it seemed, but there are a lot of problems with them right now. apparently they don't hold up like a yank/vig.
most of the problems that you are hearing about happened because people couldn't reach John for awhile. alot of things that were beyond his control happened to him. he is back now and making things right. as with any good company, the complaints should have been taken care of and they wouldn't have been aired out on a public forum. I'm sure ALL of the others have problems too. you just haven't read about most of them here.
11-15-2006, 04:13 PM
#35
"
Can they not post in threads either? I guess that would explain why he's been on the site, but posting anywhere.
I have a question for the experts in this thread...When I bought my 3600 from John over a year ago, I asked him what the STR was going to be and he told me what ever I wanted? At the time, not knowing anytyhing about TC's I said OK make it 2.2. Come to find out later that the STR will already be determined by what size stall you're running. Is there any part of this that is true?"
The STR is determined by the angles of the 3 converter componets as well as the size ratio and clearances set by the builder. Clearances are very very mission critial. The mean diameter doesn't effect the STR but not all parts available in one mean diameter are available in the next!
Can they not post in threads either? I guess that would explain why he's been on the site, but posting anywhere.
I have a question for the experts in this thread...When I bought my 3600 from John over a year ago, I asked him what the STR was going to be and he told me what ever I wanted? At the time, not knowing anytyhing about TC's I said OK make it 2.2. Come to find out later that the STR will already be determined by what size stall you're running. Is there any part of this that is true?"
The STR is determined by the angles of the 3 converter componets as well as the size ratio and clearances set by the builder. Clearances are very very mission critial. The mean diameter doesn't effect the STR but not all parts available in one mean diameter are available in the next!
11-15-2006, 04:38 PM
#37
Some people complain a little much. Actualy to damn much.
I had some of the same problems with Fuddle as did others.
And in the end it wasnt Fuddle, it was my Tranny.
Jon and the team at Fuddle made everything really easy for me. They sent a new converter to me, they call tagged the old one, they are going to help with the R & R on the trans.
So for the Bad **** that happend to fuddle, the Good Stuff out weighs it by a long shot.
Taco,
You complain a lot for not having any experince or dealings with fuddle. I understand to a point your agrument to a n extent, but at this point fuddle is getting back up off the ground were they were, and becoming more of the "Best Customer Service, Quality parts" company that we all used to know of.
Give it time. Fuddle Will Be back 100%
Tony.
I had some of the same problems with Fuddle as did others.
And in the end it wasnt Fuddle, it was my Tranny.
Jon and the team at Fuddle made everything really easy for me. They sent a new converter to me, they call tagged the old one, they are going to help with the R & R on the trans.
So for the Bad **** that happend to fuddle, the Good Stuff out weighs it by a long shot.
Taco,
You complain a lot for not having any experince or dealings with fuddle. I understand to a point your agrument to a n extent, but at this point fuddle is getting back up off the ground were they were, and becoming more of the "Best Customer Service, Quality parts" company that we all used to know of.
Give it time. Fuddle Will Be back 100%
Tony.
11-15-2006, 05:31 PM
#40
Good to know, ArticWhite. I hope it doesn't break. I would like to explain to you that it is not a matter of it breaking. You couldn't break a stocker with that little power. It is a matter of how fast you are going to go down a track and the ET with a good unit and an average unit of the 'same specs.' You will see a difference. It is the efficiency you will get and how long the clutch will last.
I would like to compare this to the area of cam shaft selection. Bigger, sure you get more power but it is easy to select a cam that will give you less than your full potiential because the specs weren't perfect for your CUSTOM car. And in the end all cars are custom. None are alike.
No one on this site understands that. Just because it doesn't break means that it is as good as the premuim model from an experienced builder. If you want the STR and stall you ordered you aren't going to get it exact from a so so builder. Much less so someone who doesn't actually build the product to converter dyno test it.
I think people have take what I said too far. Fact of life. If you don't want better. Go ahead. If you don't like my warning just simply say that I will take the cheaper stuff BUT DON'T CLAIM YOURS IS AS GOOD. That is just wrong.
Research and experience will make one builder better than the other. If you want to be 1st you have to pay for it. You can't just get average parts. You have to pay for the best and tune it.
I would like to compare this to the area of cam shaft selection. Bigger, sure you get more power but it is easy to select a cam that will give you less than your full potiential because the specs weren't perfect for your CUSTOM car. And in the end all cars are custom. None are alike.
No one on this site understands that. Just because it doesn't break means that it is as good as the premuim model from an experienced builder. If you want the STR and stall you ordered you aren't going to get it exact from a so so builder. Much less so someone who doesn't actually build the product to converter dyno test it.
I think people have take what I said too far. Fact of life. If you don't want better. Go ahead. If you don't like my warning just simply say that I will take the cheaper stuff BUT DON'T CLAIM YOURS IS AS GOOD. That is just wrong.
Research and experience will make one builder better than the other. If you want to be 1st you have to pay for it. You can't just get average parts. You have to pay for the best and tune it.