Need help with shift kit on 4l65e built
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Need help with shift kit on 4l65e built I was told by synergy that the 1-2 shift was so damn harsh because of the shift kit. He already dialed the tuning of the transmission very lax and said that it was probably due to the extra washers in the shift kit, that they put more washers in for a stiffer shift. I've dropped the pan and am looking at the tranny and have no idea where this is or what to do. Please help.
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Its a transgo. Here are the specs onthe tranny.
Transmission built by Texas Best Transmissions in Arlington
4L65E 5 pinion planetery set
4L65E Input Sprag
Beast sunshell with reaction shaft 4L65E bearing
Wide band HD Kevlar
Banner kit master/with Koleen steels / HD red clutches
HD center support
Capsual for release on servo
1-2 Super servo with rubber viton sealing rings
Cryogenicly hardened input and output shaft
4th gear Super Servo with dual piston
Pinless accumulator pistons
Z-pack (3-4) 14 one sided clutches
Stiffener plate
Transgo shift kit
wiring harness
All new solenoids
Bushing & Bearing kit
Deep pan
I'm looking at this with the pan off and have no idea what i'm looking at. Once again basically the 1-2 shift at low rpms especially is harsher than hell, rattles the car and kicks it forward. Any help appreciated.
Transmission built by Texas Best Transmissions in Arlington
4L65E 5 pinion planetery set
4L65E Input Sprag
Beast sunshell with reaction shaft 4L65E bearing
Wide band HD Kevlar
Banner kit master/with Koleen steels / HD red clutches
HD center support
Capsual for release on servo
1-2 Super servo with rubber viton sealing rings
Cryogenicly hardened input and output shaft
4th gear Super Servo with dual piston
Pinless accumulator pistons
Z-pack (3-4) 14 one sided clutches
Stiffener plate
Transgo shift kit
wiring harness
All new solenoids
Bushing & Bearing kit
Deep pan
I'm looking at this with the pan off and have no idea what i'm looking at. Once again basically the 1-2 shift at low rpms especially is harsher than hell, rattles the car and kicks it forward. Any help appreciated.
Ok with the HD-2 kit there are a couple of things that could be affecting the hard shift. The first one to check is the 1-2 accumulator. It could have a broken spring or was setup with to many washers causing the accumulation to be basically blocked. The other is that the 1-2 accumulator valve could be stuck or the sleeve was installed upside down. Another thing to consider is to see what the max line pressure is set to. Alot of builders will turn the EPC solenoid up and with the shift kit it way to hard. Even worse with a tune on top of it.
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So i just took the 1-2 accumulator off. It has a big spring, and a little spring, and 1 washer right below both of them, so the little spring was sitting on top of it. Here are the pictures. I just want this to be comfortable for daily driving. Should i take out the washer completely and put the little spring and big one back? Take out the little spring only and keep the washer? Here's some pics. Help appreciated, and thank you vince, maybe you can help me with it more now. 
In your sig it says you are using the stock torque convertor. Using a Transgo shift kit with a stock convertor will make for a VERY harsh 1-2 shift. Taking out ALL of the spacers (washers) in the 1-2 accum. housing might help some. That would be the easiest thing to try first. If that doesn't help you are looking at pulling the valve body and maybe re-sizing (make smaller) the feed hole in the seperator plate or maybe changing the spring on the 1-2 accumulator valve. You could also try removing 1-2 Super Servo and replacing it with a Corvette Servo. Just a few ideas. The best thing to do would be to get a quality stall convertor. By far the best "bang for the buck" for an automatic car!
Last edited by GMRACER13; Dec 19, 2006 at 09:56 PM.
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Originally Posted by LastBlack02SS
So i just took the 1-2 accumulator off. It has a big spring, and a little spring, and 1 washer right below both of them, so the little spring was sitting on top of it. Here are the pictures. I just want this to be comfortable for daily driving. Should i take out the washer completely and put the little spring and big one back? Take out the little spring only and keep the washer? Here's some pics. Help appreciated, and thank you vince, maybe you can help me with it more now.
It has a little spring (very stout) inside of a larger spring (not as stout/strong)? That doesn't sound like a Transgo kit. The Transgo kit uses at most three (selectable based on supporting mods) washers in the housing followed by a gold colored stepped washer followed by a blue spring of a lage diameter followed by the accum. piston followed by an orange spring of a large (i.e. same diameter as the blue spring) diameter. I would try taking out the washer and possibly the smaller spring but if it shifts too soft I would put it back the way it was. Too soft of a shift could cause the band to slip and eventually burn up.
Last edited by GMRACER13; Dec 19, 2006 at 09:54 PM.
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I bought the transmission from here on the boards and it was used (2k mi), and I'm wondering if it was just jerry rigged as far as a shift kit goes where the guy just added a washer beneath the stock springs in there. I'm not familiar at all with this stuff but I love learning, and this is the first time I've taken off anything with the tranny. I hope that this will be ok. Also, do not put synthetic fluid in? I bought mobile 1 synthetic tranny fluid, it is the dexron or whatever III ok, but since the tranny fluid in the tranny is only about 3k mi old, I'm wandering if i should just put it back in or if its ok to put the new synthetic stuff in. Thanks ahead of time.
Originally Posted by LastBlack02SS
Here's the pics.
Those aren't stock accumulator springs and that isn't a stock accum. piston. Try leaving the inner spring out. As far as fluid goes if it's bright red and doesn't smell burnt you can reuse it as long as it was drained into a clean bucket or something. Synthetic isn't necessary, I would use a good quality Dexron III. Make sure when you put it back together you take a look at the gasket and make sure it didn't get torn when you removed the accum. housing.
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Just looked at the O-ring and the top o-ring on the plunger thingy of the acumulater is torn. is that a huge problem or can i just pick one up at orchards or something like that. i think its 2" in diameter.
Originally Posted by Vince @ FLT
I would take the washer out and reinstall the housing. With the washer in there they pretty much have the accumulator blocked off or pinned with the use of no accumulation. Vince.
1 washer gets you firm 1-2 shift (blocked accum.)
2 washers gets you the same firm 1-2 shift (same blocked accum.)
3 washers gets you the exact same firm 1-2 shift (still blocking the accum.)
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Last edited by GMRACER13; Dec 19, 2006 at 10:23 PM.
Originally Posted by LastBlack02SS
Just looked at the O-ring and the top o-ring on the plunger thingy of the acumulater is torn. is that a huge problem or can i just pick one up at orchards or something like that. i think its 2" in diameter.
Torn like the seal is broken or has a small nick? If one seal has a small nick and the other is fine then it shouldn't be a problem and should work "as is".
Originally Posted by GMRACER13
Hold on a sec. I'm a little confused. How does the washer "block off" the accumulator? If putting a washer in there has the effect of blocking the accum. then what's the logic behind putting 1, 2, or 3 washers in the accum. housing and "tailoring" the 1-2 shifts firmness as stated in the Transgo HD shift kit? It wouldn't make sense to provide three washers.
1 washer gets you firm 1-2 shift (blocked accum.)
2 washers gets you the same firm 1-2 shift (same blocked accum.)
3 washers gets you the exact same firm 1-2 shift (still blocking the accum.)
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
1 washer gets you firm 1-2 shift (blocked accum.)
2 washers gets you the same firm 1-2 shift (same blocked accum.)
3 washers gets you the exact same firm 1-2 shift (still blocking the accum.)
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
More washers limit travel of the piston and make the springs effectivly stiffer therefore resricting not blocking accumulation by limiting piston movement the washer has the largest effect on the small spring since it would be recessed lower ,
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Originally Posted by performabuilt
More washers limit travel of the piston and make the springs effectivly stiffer therefore resricting not blocking accumulation by limiting piston movement the washer has the largest effect on the small spring since it would be recessed lower ,
AHHH yes, limit the travel some but it doesn't effectively block it. If the purpose of the washer was to block the accum. then why put any springs in there at all when you could accomplish the same thing by ramming a checkball into the feed hole? Or, you could leave the factory pin in the housing and stack up a bunch of 3/8" nuts on it then put the factory piston back in. Or, possibly stack up a couple factory accum. pistons. Sure makes alot of sense to purchase an aftermarket pinless accum. piston and install some aftermarket springs when a checkball laying arround the shop would accomplish the same thing, for FREE! Like I said, leaving the inner spring out would have a greater effect on the shift quality than removing the washer.
On a side note what does my number of posts have to do with whether or not I can give advice? Was I wrong in the advice I gave? Did I make an error in advising him of possible solutions to his problem? Am I wrong in stating that a stock stall convertor in conjunction with a shift kit could be causing his harsh 1-2 shift? Or are you scared somebody might come along and steal your thunder? Relax big guy, I was only trying to help the guy and to the best of my knowledge I gave him good advice.
You missed the point that the transgo setup was not being used per the shift kit directions. The amount of washers with the set up in his trans has no effect here. I see that you were quoting the 1,2,and 3 washer set up and appeared to me that you were bashing me a bit. Understand that when I saw his setup I knew exactly what I was looking at. The comment about the amount of your post was to tell you that I'm not new here and maybe you do not know who I am. Like I said the washer with his setup is pretty much pinning the accumulator. Sorry if I hurt your feelings. Vince
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The top oring is torn completely but the bottom one is fine. I just bought a new one before orchards closed but all they had were rounded ones and not flat ones like this one. Will it work just fine still? I got the correct diameter i believe.
And just to clarify, I should put the big and little springs back in without the washer to achieve closer to stock feel? Or should I not put in the little spring at all (in its stock resessed location without the washer) and just put the big one in? Essentially, enlighten me on the effect the little spring has on everything (purpose).
And just to clarify, I should put the big and little springs back in without the washer to achieve closer to stock feel? Or should I not put in the little spring at all (in its stock resessed location without the washer) and just put the big one in? Essentially, enlighten me on the effect the little spring has on everything (purpose).