Desmo748

I too found this article interesting. Kid did a great job documenting. I feel bad for him it didnt work out.. Anyway, 95 Trans Am 135k, started bucking in 4th, intermittent. Seemed to happen more when hot, eventually pump seal failed, fluid everywhere.
Trans out of car, disassembled, found 4 obvious problems that I could see. (1)Pump bushing wiped out, appears to have put wear on seal causing leak. (2)Check ball stuck in seperator plate.
(3)Sungear bucket spines sheared, split right in half, was holding itself together though.
(4)TCC solonoid holddown cracked...
So.. Ebay, new valve body harness w/ solonoid, Oregon Transmission master rebuild w/ t-converter, rebuilt pump (mine was mangled), sungear bucket "the beast".
Questioning seperator plate, should i get new? Or use oversized check ball given in kit? Plate has lots of burrs from wear, should I sand them off? I want to reuse old if possible, already spent more than I wanted to, but wont take unnecessary risk.
I have that shift kit too, was about to put it in when I stopped at the burrs, logged on here, found this thead. Feel sorry for the guy. Hope I have better luck than he did. Im broke and I need my car.
Desmo748

jakeshoe

iTrader: (14)

Without reviewing the entire thread, there isn't anything inherently wrong with the TransGo kit in a 4L60E. Many professional builders use them. IIRC both of the major sponsors here use some form of it in their builds, Dana also a professional builder uses them.
Each builder may have their own setup of the kit that they have tested and decided works for their build technique/philosophy but to say it is the cause or even contributed to the failure when you are dealing with a unit built by a beginner is pretty shortsighted.

PedaltoMetal

Replace sep. plate. Transgo makes a good one for about $20. Replace the steel check ***** with Torlon check *****. The Transgo 4L60E-HD2 shift kit is the one 99% of the people on here have and there is a reason for that. It works. Don't let some noob fill your head with nonsense.

tattmann

As for listening to transmission noobs, like I stated, you should listen to people who have been there and done that and had nothing but problems. Also, for shift kits, I did not mean to say that all shift kits are necessarily bad, however each and every person I know that has ever tried a kit has ended up with a pile of junk! I know alot of people that have tried. I have also tried. Once you start changing the fluid flow and pathways, you should expect some definate differences, and in some if not most cases these changes will be bad. Think of it like this, the tranny was originally built to work one way. Once you start changing that, it will not work the same. As you can see, from the above quotes, the transgo kit was originally advised against. Then, when problems arose, the advice was to drill the seperator plate changing orifice sizes to change fluid flow. MOST if not all kits tell you to drill your seperator plates. The end results, fluid paths changed radically from factory and again end result junked out trannies alot of the time. As was the case in this article. The 2nd quote states he needs a new seperator plate, presumably because of the holes drilled? Not sure there, but it sounds like it. Finally in the 4th quote, the poster said that transgo kits have changed many times and still are. I wonder why? If it worked, why change it at all? Would failures cause a need for change? as for the last quote, I don't think it's shortsighted to say a kit couldve caused problems when you review this entire post. Each quote listed has something that can contribute to failure. If the shift kit had not been installed, and the seperator plate had not been messed with in the first place, the chances are good that it would never have had the issues with flow, flare, and eventual destruction. If the transmission was meant to be flowed differently as in the case of a shift kit, the factory should have made it that way in the first place.

jakeshoe

iTrader: (14)

First,
Just to clarify,
myself and Dana (PBA) are both professional transmission rebuilders who build performance automatics transmissions every day for a living.
The two major sponsors on this forum FLT and Performabuilt obviously do as well and to my knowledge they use the TransGo kit in their builds as well.

That is 4 different companies who specialize in performance automatic transmissions who do recommend the Transgo kit in the 4L60E...

Do you see a trend here?

Is there a problem with continuously implementing improvements in your product?
The technology changes, the OEM's make some running changes, you learn new techniques, so you adjust your methods to achieve better results.
If this wasn't the case we would all be discussing what to feed our horses around the woodstove because we wouldn't be driving "horseless carriages" or using the internet would we?
Obviously a horse and wagon worked, why change it?

From your post it's pretty obvious you aren't qualified to give transmission building advice.
It truly is best left to those who do it day in and day out.

SHOPDOG

Well said and very true.

PB does not use the transgo kit in their units nor any other kit for that matter unless it is a manual valve body unit. They basically modify the separator plate and pin a valve in the valve body for the lockup in their 60's. They do use a superior second servo that basically blocks the 3rd accumulator function, flip the 3-4 accumulator piston and I have seen where the boost valve is addressed in some units. The only trans go product might be a sepeartor plate. They save some money by doing this and it seems to work for them. Thats great.

As mentioned by Jake the trans go kits are one of the leaders in the industry and for good reason. They work. Something to think about when you read the comments above. In Dayna's kit it is modified from it's original version as do others. With that being said if the internal clutches are not set to their spec's you might have and issue. When Dayna said that there was and issue with the feed holes, he was trying to adjust the separator plate to fix a shift concern. Knowing the balance of hydraulic circuits is not something that the back yard garage mechanic can figure out. Thus the reason why you see posts about the kit on the net. Also if you are installing a kit in a used or worn trans that might not be up to spec's for this kit, you might have issues.

Take what you read on the net for what it is worth and in most cases the professional guys do what they do because it works for them. Remember it's not their first rodeo and that is why they are in business.

performabuilt

iTrader: (25)

I would certainly not say theres anything wrong with the TG kit. As mentioned we dont use the TG kit in most of our units because we dont need to as we do understand the hydraulics and have found something that works well for us. But for anyone not familiar with the hydraulics or doing a self build the TG kit is and excellent peice. That said yes there have been changes in the TG kit over the years to make improvements. Like any product or any good manufactuer they are always learning and upgrading. We do the same and any good company does by watching what fails here and there and working to make the odds of a failure of any type lower.
Now I will say you do see some units fail after a shift kit , Question is WHY? Well here what I have observed and its not the shift kit thats the actual culprit, Most all failures I have helped to solve or observed after a shift kits are the direct result of the following.
1- Many times people install a shift kit to correct a exsisting problem or on a high milage trans thats close to the end of its life already. The shift kit did indeed hasten the demise not because it was flawed but because the trans was in bad shape to start with. Trying to make a failing part work better is always a recipie for disaster.
2-Some times the installer gets carried away thinking more is always better and use excessive shims like the guy with the really big stall using 3 washer in the accum to try and get back that solid part throttle feel and thats just beating the trans to death for no reason since in fact the trans istself is shifting exactly the same as it did before the converter. The stall is only acting as a cushion for the impact.
3-Excessive line presure mods in the tuning accompanied with a shift kit. This again just beats the trans to death for no reason. IMO with any shift kit install the max line should be measured and ajsutments made to bring it in the 210-230 range 220 being ideal.
IMO increasing the line in tuning to get a shift kit feel is the wrong way to do things.
4-Installer error this is the one I deal with most. These kits are somewhat elaborate and the instructions if you are a layman in transmissions somewhat confusing. The kit says right on the box last I looked its for the Transmissions professional.

A shift kit can indeed when properly installed and ajusted improve the life and performance of a trans. To say the factory didnt use it so it must not be good is crazy. The factory build the trans with many compromises in mind. COMFORT which is a selling point for many poeople remember most people who buy cars are not racer or even really performance enthusiast. Versus durability they stand middle of the road here with what the average customer liking as there primary goal. Gm remember does not but carsd to be fast in particular they build cars to SELL to the average joe doing average run of the miss driving and the stock hydraulics are certainly great for that but way subpar for a performance vehicle used for that. I would dare say that most F BODIES out there never even see the track or even a street race, and most are not moded.
The TG kit is a great kit in the right hands knowing the goals in mind. Yes increasing the feed sizes or restricting accumulation can be harder on hard parts but at the same time can be a life saver for the clutch sets. So in fact its a compromise and a balancing act to get the most out of each without overpower either. Thats why The sponsors/buildes have there own ways of tweaking these units to get the results they do.
In fact I will say just throwing some performance parts in a trans extra clutches etc without the hydraulic mods and you IMO really will not end up with anything substaintially better than the stock unit. The hydraulic mods reguardless of how you get there are paramout to a long lasting high power handling unit the stock hydraulics are no where close and certainly not suited to 500-600-700+ hp cars reguardless of the other parts installed.
Just my rant on the matter.
So for the novice I will continue to suggest the TG kit as its the best I have seen out there and the simplest way for them to get what they are looking for.
Frank at PerformaBuilt

tbhopp

I know this thread is old but the ATSG manual for the 4l60e has the 1-2 accumulator piston backwards(in at least four diagrams), from the photos you have posted you cant see the forks or the spring on disassembly( witch is correct), on the assembly photo the piston is bottomed out in its housing, you can see the three forks and the spring is on the wrong side. hope this helps

FLT

iTrader: (1)

The reason for this is because the OP used a trans go kit and that is how it is done when using this kit. The pictures in this thread are correct for the 1-2 accumulator.

In the old days with the 700r4 this is true however when the 60e came out they were making changes to the 1-2 accumulator circuits. I personally do not remember ever seeing a factory 4l60e with the piston being installed first. If so it had to be one of the first runs of production from GM. Just an FYI atsg is not always right in their illustrations. I attend a seminar every year that they put on. It's funny how one year they tell you one thing and the next they might tell you the exact opposite. I will have to take a look at my book when I get a chance. Vince B

LS1GMCTruck

iTrader: (2)

From reading this entire thread, I now know exactly what to do, and where to go, next time I have transmission woes. It will simply involve payment, via my American Express card, over the phone. When the delivery truck stops at my front door, I will then install my freshly built, warrantied transmission myself. I would like to thank everyone involved with this thread from the beginning, for the education. Great thread.

sjsingle1

iTrader: (1)

I really enjoyed this thread. I had a 89 IROC that I rebuilt the 700-R on my living room floor. I got the video, bought all the special tools (not cheap) and a very nice rebuild kit and a new converter. It was not hard at all just following the video step by step. I had to rebuild the tranny because the reverse went out, and it was a real pain to drive it that way. It seems it was a common problem on the 700-Rs. Upon dissassembly I found that the clutches were fried, thats why I had no reverse. It was a DD that I did not abuse but it did have over 100,000 miles. I did put a trans go kit in it, and I also put a TG kit in ALL my cars. The build went great and when I put it back in the car it worked like a charm. I now have a 2000 bird that I put the TG kit in. I mixed in a lot sonnax parts for reliability and put in a new separator plate, the old plate was really toast, and also upgraded to the plastic check ***** I hope my tranny does not break anytime soon as the wallet is not ready for it. If you still have that old tranny taking up space feel free to donate it to me

sjsingle1

iTrader: (1)

if the trans go instructions give a choice on the size to drill........I always pick the smaller ......seems to work every time

senthilmar

Thanks Man nice work it's really usefull for me

tta656

iTrader: (5)

Awesome thread...does anyone know what did go wrong,,OP has really inspried me more than i was already

I am curious ,i have a 4l60e that does NOT have the removable bell housing(no torx bolts)i can tell you i do have a green plug protruding from my trans,,but what yr do i have...thanks for any help...

mrvedit

Agreed that this is an awesome thread. It has the best pictures and directions I have ever seen! I just ordered a bunch of trans tools and plan to study and rebuild a "junker" next month just for fun. (I don't plan to actually ever use it.)

I did install a TransGo HD2 shift kit in the brand new 4L65E I have in my car and am happy with it. I once read that it takes as long to install this shift kit as it takes (a pro?) to rebuild a trans. I carefully studied everything and probably spent 8 hours installing it. I think anyone rushing this kit will have a bad result.

And like everyone else, I'm sorry the author did not have success.

mrvedit

Agreed that this is an awesome thread. It has the best pictures and directions I have ever seen! I just ordered a bunch of trans tools and plan to study and rebuild a "junker" next month just for fun. (I don't plan to actually ever use it.)

I did install a TransGo HD2 shift kit in the brand new 4L65E I have in my car and am happy with it. I once read that it takes as long to install this shift kit as it takes (a pro?) to rebuild a trans. I carefully studied everything and probably spent 8 hours installing it. I think anyone rushing this kit will have a bad result.

And like everyone else, I'm sorry the author did not have success.

fishcrazy

I am just starting the removal and rebuild of a 4L65E and ran across this thread and thought it was a great thread. Some great information here and as everyone else said I am sorry that the mission was a failure in the end. Sure wish that there had been some resolution to the problem though. This type of thing inspires me to forge ahead with my project and just be more thorough in my approach and also to research more avidly to assure success. I have had some great advice and guidance from members of this board. I appreciate that and hope to put it to good use. I have nio plans of getting involved in the drilling of holes in the seperator plate or any of that type thing. Im going to keep it simple as possible. If that is possible!

DIY-MECH

I am in the process of rebuilding a 4L60E from a 2001 Jimmy.
Have a few questions if any of the pro builders are still watching this old thread.
The 2nd Accumulator had two springs and the inner spring was broke. I have called some of the transmission stores online and no one seems to know about an inner spring. Can you tell me where would be a good place to buy this spring.
Also, the 4th Accumulator appeared to be put in backwards. The book and DVD I have don't say anything about this.
This is going to be a daily driver and just want it to last a long time.

Another question I have is the dipstick stop was not installed on the valve body. I googled this and saw what appeared to be a service bulletin for the 4L60E with Pan 103164 and it stated that there should be no dipstick stop installed. However, when I looked at my Pan I don't see a part number.

I have found from my book that there are different stops available.

Appreciate any help with these issues.

dbrogers

Here is a recent article on Flares on 2-3 shift.

http://www.sonnax.com/articles/181-4...hift-Now-What-

"it isn't always the builders fault!"

David

mrvedit

I was discussing that article with a local trans builder recently and he said in his entire career of rebuilding 4L60E for 20 years now, he has seen that problem maybe once. (He actually contacted me because he thought he had his first case and wasn't sure how to electrically test it.)

In short, that diagnosis is very rare. Every 2-3 flare/slip problem reported here turned out to be the notorious worn 3/4 clutch problem.