My point of view.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
From: California
My point of view. Ive made post's, Ive read a million of them, i now own a stalled car... but, i just don't get it. What am i missing here? 
Somebody enlighten me on this please.
If a converter (stall) does NOT lock, that means you are losing precious ground correct, as in travel ling distance correct? If its slipping/not locking or even locked for that matter since it never completely locks. In a side by side race you will lose to a car with your exact set up not stalled correct?
I also hear that the bigger the stall is, the more speed you lose on a roll...
This is my deli ma, How in the world does that make you faster? How does the gain in the initial launch out-weigh the lose??!?!
I seriously cant believe i don't get it, i have built my car from the ground up (besides tuning) and I'm am completely stumped with this
. The only reason i got it was because everyone talks so good about stalled cars... & yes it feel great as in the res ponce, by the time the power hits the tires its out! BUT!! On a roll i can tell its not as fast as it should be. I almost lost to a C6 yesterday night, not exceptable, i think all he had was exhaust and intake .
Thanks guys
Somebody enlighten me on this please.If a converter (stall) does NOT lock, that means you are losing precious ground correct, as in travel ling distance correct? If its slipping/not locking or even locked for that matter since it never completely locks. In a side by side race you will lose to a car with your exact set up not stalled correct?
I also hear that the bigger the stall is, the more speed you lose on a roll...
This is my deli ma, How in the world does that make you faster? How does the gain in the initial launch out-weigh the lose??!?!
I seriously cant believe i don't get it, i have built my car from the ground up (besides tuning) and I'm am completely stumped with this
. The only reason i got it was because everyone talks so good about stalled cars... & yes it feel great as in the res ponce, by the time the power hits the tires its out! BUT!! On a roll i can tell its not as fast as it should be. I almost lost to a C6 yesterday night, not exceptable, i think all he had was exhaust and intake .Thanks guys
Somewhere toward the top end of RPM you would produce
more wheel power locked than unlocked. Where, comes down
to cases. Converter and motor.
On a stockish car you have a decreasing torque and a flat
(ish) HP profile. So turning more RPM is not making more
power period, let alone out the back relative to locked and
lower RPM. Once you are past the point where locked, you
are on the fading part of HP you would be better off locked.
Perhaps even before.
On a hopped up motor where torque is flat w/ RPM and HP
rises with it, you are ahead or at a wash for power out the
back; your losses are the slip and the RPM you slip is also
RPM that's making power.
Time-to-distance wins races and pushing more power out
early, even inefficiently, is where it's at in the short run.
Git 'er done and do her first. If you race from 5000RPM to
6000RPM that would be a different story but nobody does.
What you would like is acceleration data locked and unlocked
against road MPH. this will show you plain as day, where the
unlocked converter has quit helping you and time to lock up.
more wheel power locked than unlocked. Where, comes down
to cases. Converter and motor.
On a stockish car you have a decreasing torque and a flat
(ish) HP profile. So turning more RPM is not making more
power period, let alone out the back relative to locked and
lower RPM. Once you are past the point where locked, you
are on the fading part of HP you would be better off locked.
Perhaps even before.
On a hopped up motor where torque is flat w/ RPM and HP
rises with it, you are ahead or at a wash for power out the
back; your losses are the slip and the RPM you slip is also
RPM that's making power.
Time-to-distance wins races and pushing more power out
early, even inefficiently, is where it's at in the short run.
Git 'er done and do her first. If you race from 5000RPM to
6000RPM that would be a different story but nobody does.
What you would like is acceleration data locked and unlocked
against road MPH. this will show you plain as day, where the
unlocked converter has quit helping you and time to lock up.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
From: California
Originally Posted by jimmyblue
Somewhere toward the top end of RPM you would produce
more wheel power locked than unlocked. Where, comes down
to cases. Converter and motor.
On a stockish car you have a decreasing torque and a flat
(ish) HP profile. So turning more RPM is not making more
power period, let alone out the back relative to locked and
lower RPM. Once you are past the point where locked, you
are on the fading part of HP you would be better off locked.
Perhaps even before.
On a hopped up motor where torque is flat w/ RPM and HP
rises with it, you are ahead or at a wash for power out the
back; your losses are the slip and the RPM you slip is also
RPM that's making power.
Time-to-distance wins races and pushing more power out
early, even inefficiently, is where it's at in the short run.
Git 'er done and do her first. If you race from 5000RPM to
6000RPM that would be a different story but nobody does.
What you would like is acceleration data locked and unlocked
against road MPH. this will show you plain as day, where the
unlocked converter has quit helping you and time to lock up.
more wheel power locked than unlocked. Where, comes down
to cases. Converter and motor.
On a stockish car you have a decreasing torque and a flat
(ish) HP profile. So turning more RPM is not making more
power period, let alone out the back relative to locked and
lower RPM. Once you are past the point where locked, you
are on the fading part of HP you would be better off locked.
Perhaps even before.
On a hopped up motor where torque is flat w/ RPM and HP
rises with it, you are ahead or at a wash for power out the
back; your losses are the slip and the RPM you slip is also
RPM that's making power.
Time-to-distance wins races and pushing more power out
early, even inefficiently, is where it's at in the short run.
Git 'er done and do her first. If you race from 5000RPM to
6000RPM that would be a different story but nobody does.
What you would like is acceleration data locked and unlocked
against road MPH. this will show you plain as day, where the
unlocked converter has quit helping you and time to lock up.
So to sum it up, a stall is alot more trouble then what its worth. 
Im pulling it and selling it.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,611
Likes: 2,525
From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
Also don't forget that a stall raises your shift extenstion (rpm to which the motor returns after a WOT upshift). So with a higher stall, you'll land at a more favorable engine speed after the upshift than the stock stalled car. Even with a stock motor, you're going to be producing more power at that higher rpm. In addition, when you punch it from a roll, the higher stall will allow the motor to "slip" to a higher rpm much faster than a stock stall, putting you into your powerband quicker than the stock stall will. These are the "post-launch" advantages of a higher stall.
And this quote:.......
....is probably the best, quickest, easiest way to answer your question in one sentence.
And this quote:.......
Originally Posted by jimmyblue
Time-to-distance wins races and pushing more power out
early, even inefficiently, is where it's at in the short run.
early, even inefficiently, is where it's at in the short run.
ugggh.. with a cam in the car its really going to suck with a stock stall. from a standstill race by the time the car gets into the powerband with a stock stall you will have already lost.
Originally Posted by TWISTEDTA
Great reply, thank you So to sum it up, a stall is alot more trouble then what its worth.
Im pulling it and selling it.
So to sum it up, a stall is alot more trouble then what its worth. Im pulling it and selling it.
Not a smart move for a H/C car... and your car will be flat dead for the first 100', not to mention the nightmare of idling and low speed driving with that cam.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
From: California
Originally Posted by Frost
Not a smart move for a H/C car... and your car will be flat dead for the first 100', not to mention the nightmare of idling and low speed driving with that cam.
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If you ever put the car on the track, you are flat giving up 1/2 to 3/4 of a second right off the bat. If you know how to launch on the street you are giving up time there too. It's a huge step backwards and makes no sense to me personally.
You don't list what make your stall is, but if it feels loose why not move to something that a bit tighter? If it's tighter down low it'll follows that it will be tighter up top as well.
It's also hard for me to believe that your before and after experience with the stall would move you to take it out.
The stock powerband is above the stock stall speed. ANY cam larger than stock will just further exasperate this.
You don't list what make your stall is, but if it feels loose why not move to something that a bit tighter? If it's tighter down low it'll follows that it will be tighter up top as well.
It's also hard for me to believe that your before and after experience with the stall would move you to take it out.
The stock powerband is above the stock stall speed. ANY cam larger than stock will just further exasperate this.
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,611
Likes: 2,525
From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
Originally Posted by TWISTEDTA
Great reply, thank you So to sum it up, a stall is alot more trouble then what its worth.
Im pulling it and selling it.
So to sum it up, a stall is alot more trouble then what its worth. Im pulling it and selling it.
I had a SY3500 in my Trans Am. It wasn't the best suited TC for the track due to the low STR, but it was fantasic in "from a roll" situations. Too bad Yank doesn't still make that model.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
From: California
Originally Posted by RPM WS6
Maybe try a stall with a lower STR. It won't hit as hard off the line, but it will multiply torque further out into the RPM band than the higher STR units will.
I had a SY3500 in my Trans Am. It wasn't the best suited TC for the track due to the low STR, but it was fantasic in "from a roll" situations. Too bad Yank doesn't still make that model.
I had a SY3500 in my Trans Am. It wasn't the best suited TC for the track due to the low STR, but it was fantasic in "from a roll" situations. Too bad Yank doesn't still make that model.
Thanks for the Reply's guy's. Its a 3000 TCI, im not saying its not tight, but in my head i feel like im loseing top end power. Its tight if tight means that when im stopped and i let off the brake it rolls.
Example I remember my stocker, if i droped it to 2nd gear and floored it, i could see the RMP's climb and feel the car pulling. This stall seems like the R's are higher then what they should be and almost seem stuck even though the MPH are climbing relatively fast. In 1st, 2nd, it feels amazing but again in my head, it feels that when its done smokeing the tires, it should maybe be faster or i should feel the pull a little more.
I guess what i dont see like i usto is the RPM's climbing. I really need to get someone to drive the bitch that knows about these things to put me at peace
The fact of the matter is that going back to the stock converter will make your car slower, and less fun to drive. Chugging around below the powerband of the motor is not fun to me.
Torque multiplication, shift extension, and slipping (getting your motor to its power much faster) is what will win you races, and that is why we install these converters.
The stock unit was only thrown in there from GM due to mileage/emissions reasons. It is a total mis-match for the motor. The simple fact is it holds your car back from achieving what it is really capable of. The way I see it, these cars in stock form are easy 12 second cars. They are bottle-necked by the stock, heavy torque converter. Get it out of there and your car will rip off ET's like it was meant to.
Torque multiplication, shift extension, and slipping (getting your motor to its power much faster) is what will win you races, and that is why we install these converters.
The stock unit was only thrown in there from GM due to mileage/emissions reasons. It is a total mis-match for the motor. The simple fact is it holds your car back from achieving what it is really capable of. The way I see it, these cars in stock form are easy 12 second cars. They are bottle-necked by the stock, heavy torque converter. Get it out of there and your car will rip off ET's like it was meant to.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
From: California
Im very happy with the responces, now that i have read all of your opinion's i feel much better i made the right choice with a conveter
I guess i did it to my self, I did all the mods at ones and i always have that "what if" in my head that never leaves me alone.
Im keeping it and imma consentrate on some suspention so i can hook
Thanks guys
I guess i did it to my self, I did all the mods at ones and i always have that "what if" in my head that never leaves me alone.
Im keeping it and imma consentrate on some suspention so i can hook
Thanks guys
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,611
Likes: 2,525
From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
Originally Posted by TWISTEDTA
Im very happy with the responces, now that i have read all of your opinion's i feel much better i made the right choice with a conveter
In a perfect world, we wouldn't need higher stalls to keep the motor in it's powerband. We would produce a strong launch, maintain high rpm shift extension, and produce faster revs throughout a WOT run with a 6 or 7 speed close ratio auto trans with a 0.40:1 overdrive, a low stall speed TC, and 4.30 gears.
Last edited by RPM WS6; Jan 2, 2007 at 06:46 PM.
