4L60e-> Not shift past 2nd
07-24-2007, 09:37 PM
#1
4L60e-> Not shift past 2nd I just got my LS1 and 4L60e installed in my '56 Chevy.
I am using the Radiator Transmission cooler.
I drove it home from the interior shop, about 80 miles, with no transmission problems.
I just drove it about 5 miles, and it started shifting only to 2nd.
I pulled the dip stick, and the fluid smells, I suppose, burnt. Actually, the smell is like a hot plastic. I am using a Lokar plastic dip stick, but when I wipe it, it dosn't smell. The stick is grey, and it's hard to tell if the fluid looks burnt.
Do you reckon I have toasted my new transmission? Or might I be lucky enough that if it's hot, and it cools down, it will be OK. At which time, of course, I should change the fluid and get a real tranny cooler.
What are you thoughts?
BTW...this was a brand new transmission, purchased wiht a crate 2004 Vette LS1.
I am using the Radiator Transmission cooler.
I drove it home from the interior shop, about 80 miles, with no transmission problems.
I just drove it about 5 miles, and it started shifting only to 2nd.
I pulled the dip stick, and the fluid smells, I suppose, burnt. Actually, the smell is like a hot plastic. I am using a Lokar plastic dip stick, but when I wipe it, it dosn't smell. The stick is grey, and it's hard to tell if the fluid looks burnt.
Do you reckon I have toasted my new transmission? Or might I be lucky enough that if it's hot, and it cools down, it will be OK. At which time, of course, I should change the fluid and get a real tranny cooler.
What are you thoughts?
BTW...this was a brand new transmission, purchased wiht a crate 2004 Vette LS1.
07-24-2007, 10:17 PM
#4
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wait4me knows his stuff so the tune should be good though he could have missed something. The radiator trans cooler is perfectly fine for the stock converter, its only when you up the stall speed that you need an external cooler.
Now is the trans shifting or is it stuck in one gear. Can you manually shift the trans meaning start out in first then go to second,third etc.
Now is the trans shifting or is it stuck in one gear. Can you manually shift the trans meaning start out in first then go to second,third etc.
07-25-2007, 06:05 AM
#5
When I drove it back from the interior shop, about 80 miles, it shifted fine. I should mention that I have anohter thread about problems driving back,which was,it would not go over 55mph. I could accellerate when going slower, but it would seem to run out of gas. Continuing to drive, sometimes it would start slowing down, so I would let off the gas for a few seconds, then it would have gas to accellerate for a bit. My efforts up to last night was in checking the charging, and volts, etc, at teh battery. Rock Valley Gas Tanks had told me the pump needs 13v, and I'm not sure it has that. He said if the pump was short on volts it could cause the gas problem.
So when I took it for the drive, it does shift from first to second. First few blocks it shifted past second, not sure if it went to fourth though. I thought I had the shifter in the wrong place (no shift indicator in car). I stopped and manually shifted and once in second, it never shifted up. I could accellerate to 40, let off the gas, and the transmission did not drag the car down, even though it was in second.
With regards to being stuck in gear, I don't think so,from teh perspective of the mechanical shifter. I did shift through the gears, didn't feel any resistence. Seemed to be working.
The burnt fluid tells me I have a problem. With only 80 miles on it, I can't help but think the pump that pushes the fluid through the cooler is bad.
So when I took it for the drive, it does shift from first to second. First few blocks it shifted past second, not sure if it went to fourth though. I thought I had the shifter in the wrong place (no shift indicator in car). I stopped and manually shifted and once in second, it never shifted up. I could accellerate to 40, let off the gas, and the transmission did not drag the car down, even though it was in second.
With regards to being stuck in gear, I don't think so,from teh perspective of the mechanical shifter. I did shift through the gears, didn't feel any resistence. Seemed to be working.
The burnt fluid tells me I have a problem. With only 80 miles on it, I can't help but think the pump that pushes the fluid through the cooler is bad.
07-25-2007, 08:44 AM
#6
Well it is highly possible that the transmission has internal problems if the fluid is burned. That really is an important clue to your symptoms.
But, your comment about the pump is a bit innacurate... the transmission pump supplies line pressure for the shift operations, lubricant pressure for the roatating assemblies and of course pressure to the cooler. Point is, if it is pulling through the lower gears it most likely is not the pump as it is able to apply those low gear elements and sustain them. I would suspect burned clutches to be the problem.
How old is the transmission? Has it been freshened up or rebuilt recently?
g
But, your comment about the pump is a bit innacurate... the transmission pump supplies line pressure for the shift operations, lubricant pressure for the roatating assemblies and of course pressure to the cooler. Point is, if it is pulling through the lower gears it most likely is not the pump as it is able to apply those low gear elements and sustain them. I would suspect burned clutches to be the problem.
How old is the transmission? Has it been freshened up or rebuilt recently?
g
07-25-2007, 09:30 PM
#7
Ratchthed
You are right. My thesis of the problem is accurate, but my description of cause is inaccurate. Someone on another forum,in response to my 'confusion', described this:
"What does happen with some 700-R4s is that the cooling flow is cut off in overdrive (the rest of the pump flows are normal) - so if you don't lock up the converter in o/d, the trans will burn up."
The net is, that in 4th gear, if the converter is not locked up, it might burn it up...on a 700 R4. I don't know about this tranny. My point was that I do have it locked up.
On to the problem: The fluid is definitely burned.
Today, I borrowed a code scanner from a guy where I work, and there are no codes in teh PCM. Of course, the scanner may not be compatible with my system, I don't know.
On the age of the tranny: it is brand new. I purchased it and the crate engine from teh same place, 12 months ago. Just now getting it running. Warranty ended 7/19. Although I called them, and they are going to warranty it...assuming the problem is the transmission, as opposed to computer problems or somethign.
I'm towing it to a transmission shop locally on Friday, and see what happens.
You are right. My thesis of the problem is accurate, but my description of cause is inaccurate. Someone on another forum,in response to my 'confusion', described this:
"What does happen with some 700-R4s is that the cooling flow is cut off in overdrive (the rest of the pump flows are normal) - so if you don't lock up the converter in o/d, the trans will burn up."
The net is, that in 4th gear, if the converter is not locked up, it might burn it up...on a 700 R4. I don't know about this tranny. My point was that I do have it locked up.
On to the problem: The fluid is definitely burned.
Today, I borrowed a code scanner from a guy where I work, and there are no codes in teh PCM. Of course, the scanner may not be compatible with my system, I don't know.
On the age of the tranny: it is brand new. I purchased it and the crate engine from teh same place, 12 months ago. Just now getting it running. Warranty ended 7/19. Although I called them, and they are going to warranty it...assuming the problem is the transmission, as opposed to computer problems or somethign.
I'm towing it to a transmission shop locally on Friday, and see what happens.
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07-26-2007, 01:04 AM
#8
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From your description, sounds like the 3-4 clutch pack went out/burned up.
odd that you couldn't go over 55 mph. I remember when I did my M6 to TH400 swap I hadn't changed the PCM yet ( i had to change i think the pulse setting and tire size in there) and i couldn't drive over around 55 mph as it thought I was going much faster and the speed governor kicked in.
odd that you couldn't go over 55 mph. I remember when I did my M6 to TH400 swap I hadn't changed the PCM yet ( i had to change i think the pulse setting and tire size in there) and i couldn't drive over around 55 mph as it thought I was going much faster and the speed governor kicked in.
07-26-2007, 05:03 AM
#9
Originally Posted by DanZ28
...I was going much faster and the speed governor kicked in.
I had this programmed by someone that is supposed to be pretty sharp...I wonder if they could have missed something.
Anyone know if a messed up computer program could cause the tranny to burn up? Or just a faulty computer, for that matter.
07-27-2007, 01:17 PM
#10
Good news is that the company I purchased teh Tranny from will warranty it...assuming that it is the transmission.
Quick question: Could a bad computer, or bad programming, cause a 4L60E to burn up?
Quick question: Could a bad computer, or bad programming, cause a 4L60E to burn up?
07-27-2007, 01:56 PM
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I've poked around in some configs files a little and noticed the line pressure tables and things and see where you could definitely jack up a tranny by lowering values to generate slippage. What type of scenario would a failing MAF make it go out?
07-27-2007, 03:25 PM
#14
Well the MAF signal along with the RPM and TPS are used to determine engine load. For instance the MAF is contaminated so it shows more or les air coming into the engine, It then take and compare this value to the RPM,VSS and TPS and determines more or les engine load than actually exsist and can do anything from cause a line presure xstreme rise to a very low line, Theres actually a techinical service bulletin about this from GM having to do with over oiled aftermarket air filters causing MAF contamination and subsequent transmission failure. Though I am sure there can be other sources of contamination. I recently learned myself that removing the screens from the MAF like many people do will cause inaccurate MAF readings. But mostly a MAF can cause HI or LOW line and in exstreme causes as I ran into a while back even affect shift timing. A guy I read about had installed a heads and cam package and after he did this the car drove perfectly at normal throttle but if you took off floored it would quick shift all the way to 4TH by like 35 mph changing shift tables didnt help. turned out and I dont have all the details They did send me there tables but i didnt keep up with them since I didnt have the software to read them anyway but it all had to do with MAF calibration. Thats one thing though I am not a tuner I have learned the Trans Tables are not stand alone controlls for the trans all the engne sensors from MAF to TPS to ENGINE TEMP and more affect trans operation. Its all Quite complicated actually. Though I am workimg to learn more and more about tuning the more I learn the more I am glad I am not a professional tuner LOL
Originally Posted by rbrcka
I've poked around in some configs files a little and noticed the line pressure tables and things and see where you could definitely jack up a tranny by lowering values to generate slippage. What type of scenario would a failing MAF make it go out?
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07-27-2007, 03:41 PM
#15
A "BAD" MAF sensor code that would mean and open circuit, But one out of range from contamination or other cause as long as the signal coming from it was within the total range of its operation it might not set a code. Thats something I help people with alot just because theres not a code does not mean theres not and issue. Engine missfire does not set a code but they will disable lockup for example. Changing you rear ratio with cause the sppedo to be wrong and the trans to act crazy but will not set a code ussually for a VSS. Just a few examples.
Originally Posted by ewingr
I'd think a bad MAF sensor would cause the check engine light to come on, or at least some codes to come up when scanned. Right?
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07-27-2007, 05:14 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by performabuilt
Well the MAF signal along with the RPM and TPS are used to determine engine load. For instance the MAF is contaminated so it shows more or les air coming into the engine, It then take and compare this value to the RPM,VSS and TPS and determines more or les engine load than actually exsist and can do anything from cause a line presure xstreme rise to a very low line, Theres actually a techinical service bulletin about this from GM having to do with over oiled aftermarket air filters causing MAF contamination and subsequent transmission failure. Though I am sure there can be other sources of contamination. I recently learned myself that removing the screens from the MAF like many people do will cause inaccurate MAF readings. But mostly a MAF can cause HI or LOW line and in exstreme causes as I ran into a while back even affect shift timing. A guy I read about had installed a heads and cam package and after he did this the car drove perfectly at normal throttle but if you took off floored it would quick shift all the way to 4TH by like 35 mph changing shift tables didnt help. turned out and I dont have all the details They did send me there tables but i didnt keep up with them since I didnt have the software to read them anyway but it all had to do with MAF calibration. Thats one thing though I am not a tuner I have learned the Trans Tables are not stand alone controlls for the trans all the engne sensors from MAF to TPS to ENGINE TEMP and more affect trans operation. Its all Quite complicated actually. Though I am workimg to learn more and more about tuning the more I learn the more I am glad I am not a professional tuner LOL
07-30-2007, 09:02 PM
#17
Some good news at least... Well, I think it's good. We'll see.
The guys at the transmission shop didn't do much today...but they did hook up a scanner and check out the computer. It is programmed right, and ordering the right pressures. So, I think the warranty will cover it.
We'll see how it goes.
The guys at the transmission shop didn't do much today...but they did hook up a scanner and check out the computer. It is programmed right, and ordering the right pressures. So, I think the warranty will cover it.
We'll see how it goes.
08-02-2007, 09:14 PM
#18
The place where I got the transmission is going to replace it. We don't really know what caused the problem. While the tranny shop says the PCM isn't the problem, I am concerned.
Per my mention earlier in this thread about having problems going over 55, and acting/feeling like it was not getting gas at higher speeds: I wonder what the chances are that the transmission burning up 3 and 4 clutches was what I was experiencing there. Any chance that symptoms of a transmission having problems that are resulting in burnt fulid, and 3 and 4 not working...act like it is not getting gas? That is: it acts like I have let off the gas; when I did let off for a few seconds, I could give it gas, and it would accellerate for a bit, but then drop back off. If I held the pedal to the floor, it would run at aroudn 55,and occasionally surge.
When I get it back next week with the new trans, I may still have this problem, especially if it isn't related to the tranny.
I want to be sure I don't burn up another one.
Per my mention earlier in this thread about having problems going over 55, and acting/feeling like it was not getting gas at higher speeds: I wonder what the chances are that the transmission burning up 3 and 4 clutches was what I was experiencing there. Any chance that symptoms of a transmission having problems that are resulting in burnt fulid, and 3 and 4 not working...act like it is not getting gas? That is: it acts like I have let off the gas; when I did let off for a few seconds, I could give it gas, and it would accellerate for a bit, but then drop back off. If I held the pedal to the floor, it would run at aroudn 55,and occasionally surge.
When I get it back next week with the new trans, I may still have this problem, especially if it isn't related to the tranny.
I want to be sure I don't burn up another one.
08-02-2007, 09:25 PM
#19
When you had the accelerator pedal to the floor and the car was not responding well what was your engines' rpm's?
If they were very high and it felt like the car was not acelerating forward any longer then indeed that was your 3/4 clutches burning up.
g
If they were very high and it felt like the car was not acelerating forward any longer then indeed that was your 3/4 clutches burning up.
g
08-02-2007, 10:14 PM
#20
The most important thing here that if it dosent feel right dont drive it. Figure out whats wrong first . I have seen many times in my career that what is really a minor problem to fix turns into a major one when you neglect to deal with the issue.
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