Torque Converter Installations
10-08-2009, 05:58 AM
#41
I've got a th350 im bolting up to the back of an ls1. the trans came from a 71 chevelle, using stock ls1 flexplate, the torque converter I don't know naything about, I had it laying around. when I go to bolt up the trans to the motor the TC mount pads are physically flexing the flexplate, in other words a negative gap. I figured this was wrong so took it back out, rotated the tc triple and quadruple checking to see it was in all the way.which it felt so, although im going to say I dont think it was near an inch like its supposed to be. any ideas. is it just some wrong converter that happens to almost work?
10-19-2009, 07:37 PM
#42
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (96)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Posts: 24,240
Likes: 0
Received 79 Likes
on
70 Posts
Installed my Yank tonight. Got 1 and 1/8 from front of trans to mounting pad. That seems right on par. From the converter pad to flexplate, I could fit a 1/4 bit but could not fit a 5/16ths. So I would estimate it to be between 0.25 - 0.31. Suggestion on shim size and where to get them? So lets say its .28 and I need to get to at least .18 I would need at least a .1 shim correct?
10-21-2009, 07:02 AM
#44
I've got a th350 im bolting up to the back of an ls1. the trans came from a 71 chevelle, using stock ls1 flexplate, the torque converter I don't know naything about, I had it laying around. when I go to bolt up the trans to the motor the TC mount pads are physically flexing the flexplate, in other words a negative gap. I figured this was wrong so took it back out, rotated the tc triple and quadruple checking to see it was in all the way.which it felt so, although im going to say I dont think it was near an inch like its supposed to be. any ideas. is it just some wrong converter that happens to almost work?
Depending on the the converter that you have i would suspect a couple things. If this is a factory converter it might be that what ever it came out off used a flex plate with a different offset. You might not have the converter all the way into the pump gears. Pump gears installed in the wrong direction.
With an after market converter the build height might be taller than spec. This would lead me to believe that it might have been built for a combo using a mid plate. Or as mentioned above....You might not have the converter all the way into the pump gears. Pump gears installed in the wrong direction.
When I get some time I will look at the info that I have and update the thread. Sorry not to have the exact answer but I figured I could throw out a few ideas for you. Vince Bielanski
Installed my Yank tonight. Got 1 and 1/8 from front of trans to mounting pad. That seems right on par. From the converter pad to flexplate, I could fit a 1/4 bit but could not fit a 5/16ths. So I would estimate it to be between 0.25 - 0.31. Suggestion on shim size and where to get them? So lets say its .28 and I need to get to at least .18 I would need at least a .1 shim correct?
Now for the washers. I believe if you look through the thread it has been covered.
I do not recommend using more than one single equal thickness washer for each bolt. I would try to get the spacing between 3/16 and a 1/16. When you measured the spacing did you use a drill bit like mentioned earlier in this thread? I saw on either jegs or summit where they sell an assortment of washers just for shimming the converter. Might be something to look into if you can not find what you are looking for locally. Vince
One other thing I never see mentioned is bolt length. This wasn't a problem back in the good ole days with flange style converter pads that use a bolt and nut.
But today most converters use billet front covers with blind holes. They even come with bolts. The industry standard on bolt length thread engagement is 1.5 times the diameter of the bolt. Every bolt that I've seen supplied with a billet converter is too short. Add spacers and the engaged thread gets shorter.
Too long a bolt will tighten up, but will not clamp the flexplate to the converter, sometimes this isn't very obvious and can lead to knocking noises and cracked flexplates. Sometimes it's not so obvious at first.
The first thing that should be done before the converter goes in is check the thread depth, thread a long bolt in to see how deep a bolt will go finger tight. Add the thickness of the flexplate and any shims to the depth and subtract approx. 1/8" or whatever will get the bolt to thread in 1.5 times it's diameter.
But today most converters use billet front covers with blind holes. They even come with bolts. The industry standard on bolt length thread engagement is 1.5 times the diameter of the bolt. Every bolt that I've seen supplied with a billet converter is too short. Add spacers and the engaged thread gets shorter.
Too long a bolt will tighten up, but will not clamp the flexplate to the converter, sometimes this isn't very obvious and can lead to knocking noises and cracked flexplates. Sometimes it's not so obvious at first.
The first thing that should be done before the converter goes in is check the thread depth, thread a long bolt in to see how deep a bolt will go finger tight. Add the thickness of the flexplate and any shims to the depth and subtract approx. 1/8" or whatever will get the bolt to thread in 1.5 times it's diameter.
10-23-2009, 04:02 AM
#45
Formerly darynC-10/23/10
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: gonzales louisiana
Posts: 2,301
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bump for a good informational post.
i was installin my fresh trans from performabuilt, but hurt myself while doin it(always have a friend). i let a shop finish it. needless to say they didnt check clearances. broke my pump gear. and cracked my fresh yank converter.(barely even 3/16'' of the converter snout was on the pump gear!!!)...
when i told them that they should have checked the clearances and used shims to fit , they got really mad and started BS'in at me that they have never heard of such a thing and that why would i need shims for a "direct drop in" for my specific make& model.
i know that 90% of you dont need it but the other 10% some times do.
sad to say they are not doin any of my work anymore cause they wont take responsibility and the shop thats fixing it now will let ME check my clearance and make sure its up to par
i was installin my fresh trans from performabuilt, but hurt myself while doin it(always have a friend). i let a shop finish it. needless to say they didnt check clearances. broke my pump gear. and cracked my fresh yank converter.(barely even 3/16'' of the converter snout was on the pump gear!!!)...
when i told them that they should have checked the clearances and used shims to fit , they got really mad and started BS'in at me that they have never heard of such a thing and that why would i need shims for a "direct drop in" for my specific make& model.
i know that 90% of you dont need it but the other 10% some times do.
sad to say they are not doin any of my work anymore cause they wont take responsibility and the shop thats fixing it now will let ME check my clearance and make sure its up to par
02-10-2010, 10:13 PM
#49
11 Second Club
iTrader: (16)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO
Posts: 1,865
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well after getting everything in tonight, I came up with 3/16 I believe using the drillbit technique. From what ive read this is at the max it should be. Will this be fine to bolt up? im guessin when I tighten down the bolts it will pull the converter out the correct distance? Sorry if these are noobish, but first time accually messing with an auto.
Its a ckperformance th400 and a fuddle converter if that matters
Its a ckperformance th400 and a fuddle converter if that matters
Goood....Gooood
02-11-2010, 02:49 PM
#52
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SFL
Posts: 3,012
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I installed mine, there was a crazy gap, about an inch. I used a half inch thick nut as a washer on each bolt and everything works fine. I guess the build height was a bit off, being it was custom built (TH350 converter bolting up to a stock LT1 flexplate). But numerous track passes and over 7 months of daily driving and not one issue.
02-11-2010, 06:21 PM
#53
The measurements stated in this thread aren't something to worry about. here's the best way to go about checking the clearence yourself.
measure from the edge of the flexplate to the mating surface of the motor. then measure from the edge of the bellhousing to the converter. the distance on the trans should be slightly more than the one you measured on the motor side. I'll see if I can get a good pic to repesent this soon.
measure from the edge of the flexplate to the mating surface of the motor. then measure from the edge of the bellhousing to the converter. the distance on the trans should be slightly more than the one you measured on the motor side. I'll see if I can get a good pic to repesent this soon.
02-13-2010, 08:27 AM
#54
The measurements stated in this thread aren't something to worry about. here's the best way to go about checking the clearence yourself.
measure from the edge of the flexplate to the mating surface of the motor. then measure from the edge of the bellhousing to the converter. the distance on the trans should be slightly more than the one you measured on the motor side. I'll see if I can get a good pic to repesent this soon.
measure from the edge of the flexplate to the mating surface of the motor. then measure from the edge of the bellhousing to the converter. the distance on the trans should be slightly more than the one you measured on the motor side. I'll see if I can get a good pic to repesent this soon.
Vince I think you miss the point of what I originally posted. There are measurements from the face of the bell to the converter pads. This insures us that the converter is fully installed. Then once you get the trans bolted up you need to check the distance between the flex-plate and the converter pads.
Not saying that your method will not work but the key point of this thread is the distance between the flex-plate and the converter pads. I can appreciate what you said and it is a valid point. Mainly because many installers are using after market flex plates. With the measurement of the engine side of things this will insure the flex-plate/engine side of things.
When installing the trans and checking the spacing, if it is more than 3/16 of an inch then we need to do some shimming. I personally like 1/8 of an inch.
Please feel free to add your input with pic's so myself and others have it to review.
Thanks Vince @ FLT
04-29-2010, 07:03 AM
#55
Teching In
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Newbe here:Question about the steps in how to add oil. how Important Is it adding that one qt of oil into ths cenverter before installing it. The reason why I ask is because I just finished installing everything and was ready for start up. I mean can the qt be add any other way or do I have to take everything Down add a qt to the cenverter then bolt everything back up? :/
04-29-2010, 07:09 PM
#58
Personally in your case I would not worry about it because the converter you are using has already been run. It has had some oil in it to lube all components. I would make sure to dump 4-5 qts in the trans before starting it up. After you start your vehicle start dumping the rest of the oil in as quick as possible. Another way is to fill the trans with 4-5 qts and start it for a short time. Meaning like 20-30 seconds and then shut it down. Refill trans and continue until full. Hope this helps. Vince
