there should be a warning label under taco name..."take all advice with caution"

 

I busted two 10 bolts with the stock tranny. Second time I busted the rear, it took out the tranny too.

 

Where's your note about question dodging?

"Refuses to admit when wrong."

That sound right?

Meh. Kids

 

Right, I'm sure you didn't see any

Not the question. I asked you if one man's experience is more valuable than the noted experience of dozens of men?

No, it's not apples and oranges. It's YOUR logic that you put out there. It's the same scenario, just dealing with two different types of people. You said that people aren't credible unless they've had the same scenario happen to them, regardless of the countless textbook scenarios, data and common knowledge. You implied that data and common knowledge is useless, and is only allowed to be recited by those who have personally suffered the exact same problem. Are you calling yourself a liar?

You didn't answer any of the questions I asked. Try again.

 

Fact the stock 4l60e may survive for awhile in a high hp aplication. How long its hard to say it would take a crystal ball . I can tell you this if I was buillding a reliable street performance car , 1st I would have a second car, 2nd I would consider that the transmission is just a natural part of the build up , You wouldnt put heads cam and a NOS shot of a stock bottom and exspect it to hold long nor should you the stock auto . Personally I would look at the trans as a foundation , Since no matter what you do it has to take the abuse

 

my richmond 4.10's howl a good bit, but the otherwise stock 10bolt lasted a lot longer then my 4l60e we rebuilt after the first time it broke

 

my stock one lasted a while on dr's and nitrous stock motor, but the second i started hooking the car up at the track it kept breaking over and over again.. i think the two biggest things that have killed my 4l60e's are heat, and 60ft times.. as long as your just cruising around on the street daily driving it prolly wont break, its just going to break when it really counts like 2 hrs away at the dragstrip! i say get a aftermarket trans and scrap the heads for now

 

Here's a good thread on this subject from a long time ago:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...732&highlight=

I think it's worth taking a look at for the OP as there's a lot of valuable input in it, and I'd like to hear Gilbert's input on the subject, too.

 

ChocoTaco369,

Some questions for you.... What does your car run in the 1/4 mile? How many 10 bolts and 4L60E's have you broken? I am just curious where all the info you have comes from.

Hugger

 

 

my trany didn't last a month with only a hot cam

 

SLP Lid | Corsa Catback | QTP LT's | Custom Y-pipe w/Magnaflow 59959 Cats | Richmond 3.42's | FTRA
QTP Stainless Cutout | MSD Wires | NGK TR-55's | Inland Empire HD Aluminum Driveshaft | ZO6 wheels


Yeah obviously he is a great example of how heavily modded LS1's are perfectly fine behind 4L60E's....

 

Well hell, looks like I got called out. I'll do my best to offer an opinion that counts for something to someone. The only way I know how to do this is to offer my experiences as someone who thought he knew these units well before he was taken to task and asked to build 'em for high performance apps. This is not a sales pitch so I don't want to hear a bunch of crap... it is my experience and then my opinion...........................

To begin with... why all the bashing? You guys should take the time to read the post Choco Taco has referred us to. There are some very smart, well respected people that can be found offering very informative comments on this same subject.... more than a year ago. It does not matter one bit what any one person has done or knows as long as he can reference his comments with facts. If you guys were to put your pride in your pockets for a minute you might actually learn something.

As far as the subject at hand.... I believe that this is one of the oldest conversations that has ever been found in the ***** of Professional Bench Racing. Used to be we were talking about Glides, Th350's, Rock Crushers, Top Loaders and so on. I remember full well the discussion we had regarding how long the transmission would last when a friend installed the 1st set of Brodix heads I had ever seen on a BBC in a pickup back in the early 80's. This issue will not be solved here, if one person learns something then the discussion is worth it to me.

Here are some of my experiences with the 4L60E. I entered into a Research and Development program very earnestly after being approached by Arvil at Xtreme Horsepower. I took it serious and went about it very methodically, not concerning myself with time nor cost. The goal was a world class unit that could handle a serious engine program.

I learned early on that controlling line pressure and managing clutch pack clearances are crucial to making one of these survive in High RPM applications. If you were to watch the line pressure on a stock unit during shifts at say above 6500 RPM you would probably be as concerned as I was. I did not like watching the pressure fluctuate in a non linear manner. Pump mods and line pressure regulation were the 1st issues I addressed during my R&D program. I felt like I needed to have some constants regardless of whatever else was happening. The stock presssure regualtion system does not come close to what we are doing today.

Next it was about shift control... We needed to retain accumulation because removing those buffers was detrimental to driveability and long term durability of certain components.

Next and most relevant to this conversation was the friction elements. The band was a no brainer that only required time at the track with different servo and friction material combinations. All of the clutch packs with the exception of 3/4 were throwbacks to sound high performance transmission building... nothing overly complicated there.

The 3/4 clutches are an entirely different animal. From the factory they are compromised form day one. There are "helper springs" that are designed to keep the clutches from applying at high rpm's due to centrifugal forces. They are fine for your daddy's Oldsmobile... but not your Z28 pushing 7200 rpms at 600 h/p. In the end we settled on a combination that is a no brainer to us. Thick steels and thick clutches... and a bunch of 'em. Significant changes in the way we stack them and the way we manage the choreography of the band coming off and the clutches applying at the 2-3 hit at high rpm's are part of the puzzle.

But.... the one thing we learned... the one thing we keep the closest... the one thing that makes our units live in the high h/p, high rpm cars is the way we manage the 3rd gear apply, A monkey can make one of these hit the 1-2 and 3-4 shifts. But, the 2-3 is an entirely different story. And it is not just a matter of larger plate holes.

And none of that stuff accounts for the stock hard parts that we see grenaded week after week. Parts that we replace with updated / upgraded aftermarket components.

It would take some cold hard facts to make me belive that there are too many factory virigin units out there that are taking high h/p ( > 450 ) and high rpm ( > 6800 ) for very long at all. I'm talking about regular trips to the track with decent tires, not spinfests on the street.

To this day we are constantly trying to determine ways to improve our units.

I will say that if someone has a long lived 4L60E behind a H/C engine than they are either really lucky or are not telling the truth about their driving habits vs. Horsepower. I have seen too many stock units fail in otherwise stock powertrain power levels.

I could go on and on about this ,..... but I digress. There are some other bright minds that lurk here.... let them chime in.

Happy Holidays gang!

g

 

Thank you for your candor, you have demonstrated what I have been trying to say all this time The 4L60E's are known to fail in even stock applications, and when you delete the TM as I did. Forget about expecting it to live, there is a reason TM even exists and its not because the 4L60E has no problem handling more than stock power.

That being said now that its built other than a slight thump on the 1-2 shift at low rpm its now one of my favorite transmissions. With a stall and a built tranny my car now hits so damn hard that it actually scares people who ride with me!

 

Thanks Gilbert, that's pretty much the point I'm trying to make. My experiences don't matter as I am only one man. I'm just one little blip in the statistics - my experience, along with everyone's sole experience on this site are useless when compared to the big picture. I have sat back and studied a lot of this to great detail. I have no idea how to build a 4L60E. Hell, I don't even know what most of the parts are if you laid them onto a table. However, what I have studied is the individual weaknesses in great detail. That thread I posted from over a year ago is an excellent reference and IMO is one of the best threads ever started in the Automatic Transmission section in LS1tech history. Hell, I think it would make an awesome sticky.

I learned a lot from that thread. That thread caused a lot of conversation between me and many other very experienced users, both in the thread itself and via PM. And don't think the information stopped there.

I may not have a lot of real-world experience, but I have tons of data from the pro's that vastly outweigh any one man's opinion. So, to answer your question "why all the bashing?" Well, it's because some users are very immature and will do whatever it takes to pick a fight, no matter how petty or useless the fight is. I could ask them a very similar question, something along the lines of "what does my personal experience have to do with the strengths and weaknesses of the 4L60E?" Of course, the question would never be answered because, well, the answer would make them look bad. The correct answer is "absolutely nothing, we're just trying to start a pointless fight."

But thanks again for the assistance, Gilbert. There's a reason why I'm on a stock 4L60E. I know what kills them for the most part, and I know how to keep them living long. I'm modded the way I'm modded for a reason: I'm preserving it. Once spring rolls around, the deep pan and tranny cooler go in