cals400ex

iTrader: (27)

i know they have an excellent reputation and they tend to be a bit cheaper. i think they are a standup company and i was wanting some insight. thanks

CamaroRacing12

iTrader: (5)

if u mean cahall performance transmissions, then yea i have one i just installed it 2 weeks ago... i chirp 2nd and third... tranny is nice ... great customer service also

cals400ex

iTrader: (27)

yes, that is the company i am referring to. just for comparison, here is a list of parts that goes in CPT's and i will compare that to FLT's since they have it listed on their site as well.

CPT:

RACE REBUILD:
*Toledo paper and rubber kit
*"National" pump and tail seals
*Raybestos "Z-Pak" 3-4 clutch pack
*Alto "wide" red lined 2-4 band
*Borg Warner Over-Run, Reverse, Low/Reverse, and Forward frictions
*Alto Kolene coated over-run steels
*New "Beast" sun shell
*.490" Sonnax boost valve
*Sealed Power hardened pump rings
*Sonnax "high RPM" pump slide spring
*Fairbanks billet 2nd servo
*Sonnax billet "dual piston" 4th servo
*New Borg Warner 29 element input sprag
*New Borg Warner late 4L60E low/reverse sprag
*700 style Babbit pump bushing
*Bronze case bushing
*Sonnax "Wide" rear sun gear bushing
*New pressure switch manifold
*All hard parts cleaned and inspected
*Case "cooked"
*Firm shift quality
*Modified EPC solenoid
*Overall unit endplay brought within specs
*Sealed Power filter
*"Farpak" pan gasket
PRO RACE REBUILD:
*Same as race rebuild...Except...
*4L65E hardened output shaft
*4L65E needle bearing, hardened front internal gear
*Steel input piston set with associated spring packs
All of our "Pro Race" units now get brand new GM 5 pinion front planetaries, and we now use .500" boost valves in the "Race" and "Pro Race" units

FLT:

FLT performance built pump ( Includes machined pump halfs to ensure flat surfaces, New delco 13 vain pump/rotor/slide kit )
FLT sleeved input drum
FLT beast shell kit w/bearing
GM 5 pinion input carrier
GM 5 pinion reaction carrier
Bearing style reaction shaft
New reverse input drum
Alto wide 2-4 carbon lined band with reinforced anchor
8 B/W hi-energy clutches w/koleen steels in 3-4 clutch
B/W 29 element sprag
4L65 low roller clutch
Transgo HD-2 shift kit
Corvette Servo
Sonnax super hold 4th servo
Bushing kit
New solenoids
New Internal wire harness ( If needed on 4L70E )
New GM Spacer plate
B/W clutches
Seal & gasket kit
Filter with fiber pan gasket
Updated aluminum accumulator pistons
FLT prepped valvebody
Set end play to FLT specs

PBA

Go with FLT, he dynos all of his units, and has more than just "one" 4L60E in the nines. FLT's are very similar to mine, and we both have had a few transmissions in the nines, that have held up well. I have had Vince do a few units that I have been to busy to build, and have not heard a complaint from the customers. Both are good, but in my opinion, FLT offers a "better" unit than CPT. Dana at Pro Built Automatics.

1SlowFormula

I have a CPT rebuilt trans and have had it for years, Frank is a great guy to deal with and his stuff holds up better then many others. The post above from Dana is a little biased since he and Frank rarely see eye to eye, and you can see that on other forums...

cals400ex

iTrader: (27)

i know both build great units. i am just trying to compare and contrast here with some of the owners of both.

CamaroRacing12

iTrader: (5)

when it comes to CPT and FLT quality i think its a toss up... its the customer service and price difference i would look at to make ur decision... i have 0 regrets with Frank at CPT hes a great guy and does great work

9000th01ss

iTrader: (10)

Going off the list I'd go with FLT.
Most of the CPT list is obvious rebuild parts, no big deal.

FLT
Sleeved input drum-very important
Beast shell with bearing, a lot different than the standard beast shell.
New reverse drum, what does CST do when they use the wide band on what drum.
A lot of stuff built to FLT specs, CST uses factory specs, big difference sometimes.

I'm never going to buy from either, I build my own. Can't call me biased.

cals400ex

iTrader: (27)

these are differences i am looking at. however, many say you will have way more aluminum piston failures than drum failures. since i dont' build trannys i can't back anything up. i just have to go off of what i read. the prices are quite a bit different. but, i don't want to go solely off of that. also, both have great customer service from what i hear as well.

9000th01ss

iTrader: (10)

Many say that as in who?
CPT has a huge list of regular rebuild parts.
National seals? they come in the paper and rubber kit which they are all about the same.
Cooked case? there are better ways to clean aluminum. I'd leave that off the list. No new solenoids or wiring. They list every little thing so you know if they replaced those they would be on the list.
Wonder what they do to their pumps and what vanes they use.
They're not a sponsor here, we're not even supposed to have threads like this.

daniel6718

iTrader: (36)

ive had a cpt for 3 years and had no problems at all...he even checks in with me every once in a while asking how the trannys doing

navydiver2323

you need to try the "other" CPT CAROLINA PERFORMANCE TRANSMISSIONS, Just made 600 rwhp in one with not problems, there race level 4 is the shiat!!
Been through a few builders..


rob

PBA

They're not a sponsor here, we're not even supposed to have threads like this. No more "free" discussions, hmmm... just what we need here more BIG BROTHER.......

12SCNDZ

First off, it's CPT! If you're going to post stupid stuff like this, atleast get the name right.

Second off, who do you think you are? You obviously haven't built very many 4L60E's. I've been building them since their inception, in 1993. I've tried every part and build technique that's out there. I was part of the design and build of some of the first performance parts available for the 4L60E.
If you think using a sleeved drum is more important than a steel input piston set, than you obviously posses very little knowledge. Tell evryone here the only thing that will break that input drum, and how to prevent it. Ask ANY of my customers if they've ever broken an input drum in one of my units.

See, anybody can be a "follower". I choose to take my own route and use what WORKS...Not just what everyone else is using, just because it's popular (and wrong!)

Ok, "Mr. Transmission Builder", you explain to all these people the best way to clean a case. Every transmission shop I've ever been in has a case cooker. What's your better plan?

Tell everyone the difference between the Beast shell with a bearing, and a "Regular Beast shell. I'm going to make you feel real foolish on this one!

You can tell if a drum is flat by laying a straight edge across it. If it's dished, it gets a new drum. If it's flat, it gets reused. That saves the customer money! Have you checked the difference between ours and FLT's prices? Sure, I could spread the load, charge more, and put new drums in all of them...Eventhough they're not neccessary 75% of the time.

I've been building transmissions, professionally, for 19 years. What are your credentials?

Frank
CPT

12SCNDZ

LOL...I guess you're still a little "salty", because you couldn't compete with us on CZ. I proved to everyone there that you're a "hack".
Let's get it straight. YOU haven't built ANY transmissions in the 9's. You sent a few customers a box of parts and they assembled their own. they threw away most of the parts you sent, and used good stuff.
Oh hell, your oncompetance isn't speculation, though. Remember the 500 mile old completely cooked unit I redid of yours? One of those that you were "so successful" with? Your reputation finally caught up with you. You built stock transmission, threw in a TG kit, and a vacuum modulator, and called them racing transmissions...LOL Yea...All of your customers found out very quickly that they got a case full of junk.

Frank
CPT

9000th01ss

iTrader: (10)

I know, you don't, sucks for you doesn't it?

You're my ******* hero.
Wonderful.
Name a few. Hell name them all, you want to impress this forum.
Give me the list.

Thats what I do. What am I running, who am I?

I like the Renegade washer.


It's not just thicker around the splines it has a ring welded around them. Did I win your approval?

Not my problem, I reused them too.

You call that a credential? A certificate is a credential, not a claim on a internet forum.

Does it matter? I can say I've been building for 25 years, how do you know? you don't so I'm not BSing anyone. Do something impressive, starting an arguement in an internet forum doesn't do it.
A more positive post would have done more good on your part.
No one knows who I am so you can talk all the **** you want, it's not going to effect me at all.

9000th01ss

iTrader: (10)

NOW THATS A GOOD ONE, thats exactly what I did with the parts I got from Pro Built.
Oh no, it's a spelling error. If you're going to have a dispute over who is the better builder at least spell right, over all it helps.

9000th01ss

iTrader: (10)

Interesting what a search brings up. Seems the only time you post here is defending yourself for letting people down and acting like a jackass in the process.

FLT

iTrader: (1)

I really hate to see threads like this. However after reading this thread there are somethings I would agree with and others that I do not. As builders we all have our own views of how things should be done and what has worked for us. Like stated above obviously this is the case here.

As for the comments on the new reverse input drum. I have been building these transmissions for a long time now and have seen many reasons to change or not to change. We have standards that we build by depending on level of the unit we are building and we stick to them. The reverse input drum obviously needs to be flat in order to have a good apply surface for the 2-4 band. We do replace many of them because they are not perfectly flat. In level 5 builds it is an automatic replacement idem. Also the area where the sun shell rides on this drum does get damaged with use. This causes clunks in second and forth and also adds to drive line slop IMO. I have even heard it produce noise on a dyno. Also on the inside of the drum where the apply cushion plate rides, I have seen this area worn badly. I have found in transmissions in general that in areas such as this, a weird apply can be felt, a delay or even a noise can be heard. I always replace this piece when seeing it. Also a very worn drum in this area allows the cushion to rub on the input drum creating metal. For the price of the drum to me it's a no brainer.

Moving on to the sleeved input drum. This piece can be a double edged sword so to speak. I will agree that there are pros and con's if not set up properly. In my early days of using this setup I found it to be a PITA and also a few failures that came with using it. I have greatly reduce all of them and have had great success in using it. The issue with this piece that most find is that you will need to run aluminum forward and overrun pistons. If a steel forward piston is used, overrun seals have been caused to blow out and fail. Now with using both aluminum pistons we run the risk of the forward piston breaking. I feel that most of these failures are cause by excessive forward clutch clearance and also pressure spikes in the unit. If the unit is set up properly the failure points are actually eliminated greatly. The main idea in using this style drum is to reinforce the spline area where the aluminum drum and the shaft are pressed together. I have seen the input shaft float in the drum causing a clutch failure in a non sleeved drum. Also when I sleeve a drum I fully remove the input shaft to see how tight it really is in the housing. You can see this by how easy it presses out. Also after installing a sleeve the shaft usually is much harder to reinstall it. That tells me the sleeve is doing it's job. IMO

As for the bearing style shell. I feel that it is a nice piece and a nice addition to any build. I recently had a nice conversation with Greg Nader from Sonnax about bearing style shells. (VERY SMART GUY IMO) Any time when a bearing can be used instead of a washer it is a good thing in any transmission when set up properly. With a 4l60e based unit the bearing inside the rear planet really takes the load of the shell and the reverse input drum. Obviously there are parts moving at great speeds and are getting loaded and unloaded very quickly when shifts take place. I have seen bearings in this planet fail over the years and always blamed end play. Not really understanding as to why until after talking with Greg and stacking up the parts to take a better look with him at the shop. The issue is with a bearing style shell the low roller race needs to be machined to the proper height to eliminate the load on the bearing in the rear planet. With that being said the bearing that is installed on the shell takes this load instead. The bearing that we use is a very large bearing that far exceeds the one used in the rear planet not only by size but in durability. And yes it comes from Sonnax. The sleeve that we press on the beast shell is really to retain the bearing. I have found that some times the sun gear has to be pressed into the sun shell after doing so. I guess anytime you reduce clearances it has to be a good thing. With that being said IMO it is a nice addition to our product. This shell is used in all level 4 and 5 builds.


As for the shift kit that is used in either build, that is builder preference. We are actually looking at using a kit that comes from sonnax. The trans go kit is a good kit and is very popular. We do modify it and use most of what comes in the sonnax kit already. So for us it really is a toss up. Both products have pros and cons but the key is to find the right balance when using them. The sonnax kit does not offer a gear command feature.

To the original poster, I wish you the best of luck in which ever direction you decide. CPT has many happy customers and I do know that Frank has built more than a couple units. Obviously we are more money but then again we do install many new parts and also the custom ones that we make or have made. I feel that our product is a very good piece and you could not go wrong with choosing either. Good luck, Vince.

heymoej

iTrader: (67)

i am very happy with my lvl4 FLT......car should be low 11 on motor once i get the suspension on & set up right.lol.