I spoke with a local[in NY on Long Island]well known trans builder about a T350 for my car and he told me about this 4STB transmission.Rated for 850 rwhp has trans brake and manual shift valve body.

It is a lock up OD with 2:84/1.56/1:1/.67 ford trans with GM bell housing.Size wise it is larger than a 350 smaller than a 400 but about the same weight as a 4L60E due to lightweight components.I dont know if it is based off a Ford Lightning truck type tranny.

Anyone else hear about this trans?

 

Oddly, Lentech is building a Ford AOD that is also rated at 850. They figured out a way to make the AOD into a killer tranny. I know it's good behind the Fords. Maybe they cast a bell for the GMs, too.

SC-

 

The shop I spoke to just did a 2000 Camaro SS with a Vortech charger on it.

 

As best I can tell from the info posted here and on their website, it's an AOD with an adapted bellhousing and a Lentech Strip Terminator valve body... You get overdrive and a brake, but no lockup. Very badass transmission, but it ain't gonna be cheap. Just building a strong AOD isn't cheap (mechanical diode, billet servos, spiral ring kit, stamped drum if you get an old core, wide ratio kit if you want 2.84 first gear, new input shaft, etc.. This can easily run 1800+ bucks.. Then add on the cost of the valve body ($680) and the bellhousing ($600) .. It's strong, no doubt.. But EXPENSIVE !!

 

That trans has a list price of $2500.I wonder what would make it better than a built 4L60E?Are the Ford AODs that much stronger?

 

jfm... Talk with Tom, Rossler can build you a bad 4L60E for $1495.00. That is what they are using in Lingenfelter's Twin Turbo 427 Corvette. Rossler has cars running 6's with his Turbo 400's...
www.rosslertrans.com

 

I spoke to Rossler about a T350/lock up/trans brake/manual shift/roller tail shaft and all the upgrades,basically what Big Mike runs in his 9 second NOS Camaro,price of $2300.Mike told me he paid around $1900 so that $2300 might not be fixed in stone.When you go lock up the price goes UP quick.

The 4L60E will work but needs rebuilds much too often for me,I have not seen one that is raced hard with over 425 HP last a long time.If I go with a T350 it will be a Rossler or local with Freddy Brown[he builds that 4STB].

I just want a tranny that will last for at least 1 season with NO problems.

 

What's a "long time" for a 4L60e? One I drive often (my GF's car) is at 10 months so far w/o a rebuild and counting.. My tranny guy just rebuilt a customer's TH700R4, been in a supercharged 383 'vette for 4 years. Still worked great, guy is going bigger with the motor and wanted to freshen it up while it was out.

 

hey brains, you dont understand what jfm wants in a tranny, he wants an every weekend racing and 2-3 day weekly driven tranny. no 4l60 will do that with out a rebuild every few months.

 

BS - if the transmission holds the power, it holds the power. Zangel's car isn't raced EVERY weekend, but several times a month is a given. It gets a LOT of street miles as well. If a friction slips excessively on the shifts (street or track) obviously it will fail. A properly pressure-modulated transmission will slip LESS at WOT than during street driving, provided it is capable of holding the power. Most of the wear actually occurs during part-throttle use, and is the result of improper shift timing and/or dragging clutch packs. An example where GM identified and tried to help this out in the 4L60 is with the 3/4 clutch return springs -- they're trying to keep the clutches from dragging and burning up by putting spring pressure on the top of the pack. Another problem is with the type of friction materials people are putting into these transmissions -- you put a blue plate or other "race" friction, which is DESIGNED to be replaced regularly, and of course its going to need a rebuild. Another thing to consider in these cars is the factory shift scheduling. GM built the shift (pressure) profile to offer a nice soft shift. How do you accomplish that? Right - slip it.. Build the transmission and the PCM profile to accommodate for what you need the car to do, and you end up with a working solution Just swapping in a "bigger, badder" tranny isn't always the solution.. 450-500 RWHP isn't a big deal for the 4L60e, heck Ford guys have been using the TH700 behind a heck of a lot bigger setups than us!

 

Brains,dont get your panties in a wad,I hear what you are saying.LOL

I spoke to the man who builds the SpeedInc trannys and he answered some of my Qs about it.Clutch material,Red-not suited for a lot of street driving,will wear faster BUT will give the best grab least slippage.Blue-good for street strip/better than stock packs.

Vac modulation will give softer part throttle shifts but go WOT and 100% line pressure is applied.

10 clutch 3-4[75%more holding than stock],7clutch foward[40%over stock],resurface nitrated drum,5 pinion[cryoed]front and rear planet,4340 billet&rollered sun shell-anchor pin-pump rings-rotor vanes and Xtra large servo,parallel deck pump@.002 max,HD front pump bushing staked,hardened stator support,HD pro torque input shaft and drum,billet .530 tv valve and hi pressure spring,hipo shift kit,vacuum modulation control and new shift noids and wiring.Trans built for large shot of nitrous,blower or Hi HP NA.

I am tempted to try this tranny out,cant see where any better parts could have been put in it.It is just sitting on my work bench,fully gone thru by builder waiting for a home.

 

The 200-4R seems like a good idea here. I'm not sure how quick you wanna go, but they've been mid-high 9's in GN's, which are pretty heavy.

I've always been told blue clutches are better than red, btw. Personally, I prefer Kevlar over both.

The Lentech AOD has taken a couple cars into the 8's, but those were Mustangs and likely very light cars. When properly built, that trans is seriously strong, but to be it's strongest, it loses O/D and price is in the $3,400 range just for a standard Ford application, unless the prices have dropped this year. Lentech cuts off the bell housing and replaces it with an SFI unit, so using a GM SGI unit is prolly just as easy to them.

For a street driver, I still prefer the 200 though. It's very light, strong when built properly, and has a great gear ratio for most street cars with good-high hp.

 

I expect to make close to 450 RWHP on the new motor and then next year add a 150 shot which should get me low 10s,high 9s.

I would think that most top of the line rebuilds would use most of the parts in the list above.That being said,it now comes down to the builder himself as to how the parts are installed,that has to make a big difference.

Brains,with Tq management removed and a vaccum mod trans to regulate line pressure dont you think it takes the PCM/stock line pressure out of the game?

 

jfm: !TQMGMT and vac mod will definitely relinquish control over line pressure from the PCM, but I'd still verify with a gauge that your line pressure doesn't suffer on the 2-3.. I'm not sure what my tranny guy does to his transmissions, but he gets enough 3rd gear to break the tires loose on the 2-3 if you don't have a huge converter. He's a firm believer in the total package though, and he doesn't believe the vacuum modulator is necessary. I have no reason to doubt him, every transmission he's built (incl. my T56) has worked better than those from other popular builders in the area. I just wish I could figure out what it is he's doing with these 4L60e's and pass on the knowledge, but he's VERY protective of his "secrets." I got a chance to glance over his "Bible" (a 15 year old notebook with hand-written measurements and numbers) but it made no sense to me. I do know he doesn't just buy the latest Sonnax "problem fix" kit and slap the transmission together. In fact, I know this - for most long rebuild interval units, he doesn't use blue or red clutches. SOOO... to me that meant the "latest and greatest" parts sold for these transmissions may not be the answer we're looking for when wanting them to live forever. Heck, it seems some people's STOCK trannys live longer behind identical motors than some BUILT trannys..

 

Brian,my stock trans is still alive and well with close to 400 passes.I have to agree with your last sentence 100%.I just know my stocker wont last much longer when new power is added.

 

mike m, may i ask what you consider: every weekend racing? and streetable? I am curious because I thought what I was doing was racing weekend, and I know I drive to work everyday (m-f & some sat and sun, not all though) and cruise etc...
I hit the track every weekend fri & sat spraying at least a 150 shot + mods from the line and like i said use this car for work as well etc...about 200+miles per week, an occasionally 500+ miles a week. I have cut lots of 1.6 and some 1.5 short times, running low 11's. On a stock trans, only mods to it, Yank 3,000 stall verter, B&M cooler and a drain plug kit. Change the fluid & filter often and use a cooler and you can get a lot of fun and life out of a 4L60E!

 

Cat3,my 99 SS only has 12,000 miles so I dont consider it a daily driver like yours,it does get raced hard Spring and Fall.

Cat3,you have a strong stocker,like mine but a time will come for a rebuild.Like Brian said,I have seen good working stockers replaced with "built" and fail quickly.It sounds like Brian's tranny builder has a very good handle on his rebuilds.

 

My thought is when it goes, either 4L80E, or Rossler race prep my current trans!

Cant wait for it to fail, so this weekend think i will try to nail a 200 off the line!

 

I'm glad this thread hasn't turned into an anti-4L60e bandwagon like most tranny threads do For quite a few of us, the 4L60 is quite adequate and I hate to see people sacrificing overdrive because of the nay-sayers. I just wish I could share more info on what to do (or rather, what NOT to do) to these boxes to make 'em work right Then again, I guess that's why my tranny guy gets 1500 to 1800 for these things.. *sigh* I know he ain't got that in parts into the thing!

 

After reading all the search material I could find I have come up with some general speculations.

Goals:11.99 to 10.8s,stock internal,heads/cam/150 shot,4L60E

:mid 10s,daily driver,light car,no spray-4L60E

:low 10s,daily driver,light,150 shot-I think this is where you have to get rid of the 4L60E,go T350.

The Colonel has run a bunch of trannies and he feels that the limit for the 4L60E is about 450 Torque.After that it will work but need clutch replacment more often.He runs,what?,low 10s high 9s?He opted to get a junk yard T350 and have it built,it has worked and lasted a long time but you do give up OD.

I have the option to go with my stocker after the motor goes in,get it tuned and see if it holds at the track.When it gives up I have the Speed Inc Stage 3 right here,I will give it a shot and hope for the best.My goal is to run solid 10s on motor this year,high 9s with a shot of juice next year.