MustangEater82

iTrader: (1)

Just curious if there are any FAA Airframe/Powerplant certified technicians on here.

Also curious if there are any that have moved from aircraft to automotive?



I have heard alot of A&P guys never even make it to aircraft and get nice jobs sometimes working with race teams or other non-aviation jobs. Seems alot move into motorcycles working with aircooled engines...


I just got my Airframe rating and working on my powerplant and will be getting Avionics training as well.

87gnx

iTrader: (3)

I got my A&P in 1991. After a start in the military, school was easy.Went on to get A/E degree, and never looked back. Always had a job (do now), and every day is different.
Never went the automotive route, had to buy too many tools.
A&P with Avionics will get you far, don't believe the B/S people tell you, you made a good choice, at least I think that I did. Hope this helps you.

JUICED96Z

iTrader: (2)

Im unliscenced right now but just have to take the tests for my A&P... Im about to test.. had some stuff come up after I got done with school.


The good money is in contracting and if you are in avionics or sheetmetal then you will allways be able to find a job..... getting into engines opnes doors down the road for engine rep's for companies like GE and Rolls.......

The avionics schools are good but you learn the most on the job so don't go into a job thinking you know a lot...... it helps a lot though... don't get me wrong and make srue you remove all metal from you before you start playing with wires..... trust me....

if you go contracting Planetechs (planetechs.com) is who I worked for and many will tell you they are one of the best..... contracting is an easy way to to get time under your belt as long as you don't mind living in a hotel and traveling.....

I work for a regional airline right now in maintenance but I am not on the floor and working on the floor for an airline is often just as unstable as working for a contract company.


There are some guys that go to automotive for a while just because they have a family and don't want to contract when they loose their jobs.... I worked with a lot of guys that went from automotive to aviation....... why? Because unless you are working line maintenance you will have a fairly easy day most days and will get paid to sit around talking with your buddies..... can't do that working on cars.

If you like avionics stick with it because it will get you far but learn as much as you can... everything from it to helping a guy bang rivet's.... I have known some guys that were good at everything and they just went to the contracts that paid the most.... one day avionics.... a few months later sheet metal.......

MustangEater82

iTrader: (1)

Good to see a couple on here. I went to a job fair and did alot of research with some companies. Seems the big airllines all want experience, few have a couple ways of getting in with no experience. I have found some a regional I liked and pre-emptive interviewing looks like my chances of getting in are very good.

I am undecided about contract work, I have talked to some people that have done it, and my dad works with a company that contracts out employees (Engineers/accountants, not aviation maint) so I have heard some of the ups and downs of contract work. At least from the employer side.

I am all about learning as much as I can, that is for sure. My dream job that I will try out for when I am finished is for Boeing, a rep comes out every now and then to my school and apparently hires a few guys. I'd love that job just for the training abilities.



Believe me I know even though I am school I am not learning about stuff... the FAA is so far behind the times on crap its kind of scary.



I will be going though a Avionics Line Maintenance program and get FCC certified. I am also looking at the NCATT AET rating. Talking with some job fair people they are really looking for that in people, since it looks like it will be the new Avionics standard. You guys have any input about this?

http://www.ncatt.org/aet.php

87gnx

iTrader: (3)

Airlines are "in the crapper" right now, they cut retirement and don't really pay what they used to. No benefits, or insurance as a contractor, but as stated the pay is much better.Corporate is good pay and clean working environment.Delta Airlines won't even look at a "new hire" with out Avionics.Regionals will get your "feet wet" and give you some experience, but don't expect to make more than around $16.00 an hour to start,if you're lucky.You'lll probably be working night shift, with crappy days off to start.
I'm currently working the (Boeing) 787 project as an engineer, and they pay me a ridiculous amount of money.I have over 20 plus years in the industry tho.Carpal tunnel is hurting me now, I'm done for awhile. G/L

JUICED96Z

iTrader: (2)

I just deleted a half a page of my writing grrrr..

The line avionics courses are well worth the money and look very good on a resume along with some of the certs.

Boeing is not a place for learners......... 0 screw up factor there but at other places there is a fidge factor...... with new aircraft you have to have damage tolerences....... if you have a hole that you screw up and have to drill it out to the limits on a new aircraft then this is bad for down the road but working 737 heavy checks in the past I have seen a few good cover ups by people on the floor when the aircraft was built haha.

Id go to BOEING after a few years just for all the free tools they give you that come in handy.

If you have the time and money take the composite classes also..... Purdue here has a really good one for it and avionics and they guys that come out of them know what is going on.

One word of advise though.... first place you go to work ask around about the other places...... you will find out what places to avoid and what places to work for...

Some places don't even have air conditioning haha.

There are allways guys on the floor selling tools cheap also.. I got a roll around box (big craftsman) for like half off when the onwer died... found other tools left in the aircraft... like a MAC hi-loc wratchet...


Like GNX said once you get like 20 plus years in a lot of doors open.... there were guys on the floor that engineering would go find and talk to them about repairs haha.

There is or was a guy on here that is a lead on the 787 out there........ seach A&P and you should be able to find some threads with him in it........ he can give you a better idea on BOEING... he told me to avoid it for now because one they get the 787 on track it will be bloody with all the people they will get rid off. Another guy who is or was a line lead out in Denver.


GNX.... I hear you guys started testing the new 787 wing boxes (the fix)

MustangEater82

iTrader: (1)

LOL I got a HI-LOK ratchet free from my school, outer is rusted a bit but works great. They were throwing a set out.

I am getting my A&P at Embry Riddle. I have slightly considering further education with Purdue(I have family in IN, my bro went their awhile and normal classes beyond the A&P at Riddle are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overpriced) but I doubt I will, I want to get into the field. I already went through a composites class, seemed pretty simple and easy, but kind of dragged out on simple things. I am a little worried it wasn't that great. I did learn about(forgot what it was called) some school that does composite training. Apparently the class I took covers their "Level 1" training.

Main reasons I was looking at Boeing was the 787, since its different I was hoping to get in there and get a decent amount experience with it. If all works well its going to be the new thing out there. Even if Boeing did its cuts which is always expected from manufacturing, that means there are going to be 787s out there flying and I potentially was one of the few out there that has experience in it. Also figure good experience to "know" the aircraft to watch them as they are being built.

They are opening a new plant in Charlseton, SC for production. The rep said they are only moving ~15% of the new factory from Seattle since they had their own production to do there. I was kind of hoping to maybe go to the new SC plant and once again, be kind of on par with seniority(for the plant).

Job I was looking at was line maintenance to fix squawks that came off the factory line.

JUICED96Z

iTrader: (2)

They build the tail in Charlseton right now and I have heard good and bad about it..... I know a guy that does the squawks off the line out there....... from what I hear you have to have a lot of time under your belt or you will not survive. He is working the new AWACS bird out there..... or was.


Untill the 787 is out in large numbers it will not mean a lot to have training on it. Right now companies what guys with general wide body time like 777's 767's ect ect. Once you know one you kinda know them all. I went from workin on 727's to 737's and caught on pretty quick...


Cuts are expected in contract work period or in aviation period........ from what I hear though with the 787 it will be epic.... I have been told that they have just been throwing more and more money at it untill it is on track and once that happens they will have no need for the extra guys..........


Like I said, I am glad I started out in heavy check.... I got to learn the systems fairly well and learned the places to avoid and the places to go to. I doubt you will find many that will tell you to go to BOEING right out of school.

Don't get me wrong there is a lot of guys that make a lot of money out there but they pay well for a reason...... it is also production so day in and day out your are doing pretty much the same thing with most positions.......... I mean for a few months you might just be installing avionics then spend a few days fixing the stuff that is inop. On the line you spend your days working stuff that is inop.

BOEING pays well also because most people don't want to drill the same holes every day or install the same boxes........... most that I have heard of go out for 6 months then move on.

Now BOEING does have jobs overseas that are not production and do pay well... almost all of those are not for new guys nor do they hire them.


Im sure the wratchet you have is the small ones that have saftey wire to hole the center peice in... they are nice as long as you take care of them. Hold onto it they come in handy. They also get into spots that the MAC I has will not fit into sometimes.... If you find a guy selling one with like a 6 inch handle cheap get it, those are nice also. What sucks is if the wire breaks and the center peice falls out and you don't notice it when it falls....... it is just a peice of metal then haha.


Here is something cool, once on the aft side skin replacement line on the 737's I shot like 10 rivets with a flush header that and a completley broken stem................. yes it can be done....... that peice was on display for a while...... nobody had even seen one do that before.........


This will give you a better idea on what places are looking for, as you can see BOEING will not take anyone for sheetmetal unless they have 3 year's. I don't they take new guys to often.
http://www.planetechs.com/Current-Openings

Avionics
http://www.planetechs.com/Current-Openings/Avionics


P.S. Being a new guy I am sure you will be stuck in Washington...... all the old timers who want to get on the east coast will bid for SC.......... untill you go out there you have no idea how many people work on the floor for that company.... then remember that there is other places like SC PLUS they don't build all the birds at evrett........ the smaller birds are built down the road...

MustangEater82

iTrader: (1)

I doubt getting into Boeing will be easy but they have been specifically coming to my school to recruit people, not for assembly line work. The guy that came is one of the senior mechanics, he is specifically coming to get people to set them to be in the company for awhile. Apparently the oldtimers aren't wanting much upward mobility. They are looking for people who don't want to just wrench for 30 years. But are still not afraid to wrench.

Its a little different then most of their jobs. Trust me I have no interest in assembly line style work. I prefer troubleshooting/repair, which is what they were looking for.


One thing that might prevent the old timers going to SC, is the same reason why Boeing is opening an entire full plant(not just a tail section, full planes coming off assembly line, 2011 I believe) is Union issues. No real Unions in SC, and Boeing has had big issues with unions in Seattle. There will be people moving, but at the same time, Washington is going to be running full tilt as well once 787 production starts.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...29-723919.html


Either way, it is very competitive, and with people coming fresh out of school with me, some have military experience.



I think I am going to be stuck starting out at a regional, I am just worried I will get stuck in a rut with them, I want to eventually move up to a major airline and work on bigger birds.

JUICED96Z

iTrader: (2)

It sounds like he is hiring direct hires.... IE you are a BOEING employee and not a contract employee. It is kinda sneaky because in every instance I know of the direct job's pay less.... but you have a little more job security in exchange. Contractors don't stay long as a general rule..... directs do because they live there so really they want directs.


They chose SC because a lot of it is made in Europe still (as far as I know) so it is cheaper to ship parts to SC from there and if I remember right the only parts made in asia is the wing box in Japan. Nothing to due with the union.

On Delta yeah they RARLEY take new guys and I doubt you will see any major take new guys for a few years...... there is a list miles long of laid off guys wanting to get back in that are working at MRO's.... that does not include the guys that don't want to go back that could. I worked with one guy at an MRO that got called up by DELTA (worked for them for a few years) and a few days later he was gone.

The only way you will get stuck in a rut is if you want to. I think having a regional background helps a lot because a lot of the smaller narrow bodies like the 737's are getting parked and E jets are taking over their flying.

To work on the really big stuff for an airline and being an airline employee count on working for United or Delta/Northwest and living in expensive cities like Atlanta, Denver, San Fran...

I wanted to work on the big stuff for a while but after a while I enjoyed the smaller stuff also... in the end the big stuff is the same as a small bird just larger....... a 757 is just a stretched out 737 with different engines.... im serious..... if you can fix a 737 you can fix a 757....

Sadly a lot of places and schools really hype up their students and thankfully my school was straight up with all of us and I had a very accurate understanding of what it is like when I got out and I did fairly well..... other guys from other schools go tlied to really and they were way behined the 8 ball.

We are hiring techs right now, when you get your other liscence I can give you some leads if you want them.


My airline starts new guys out at $15 something an hour....... if you have other certs sometimes you can negotiate that some. Quite a few road trips so you get the chance to go to other cities on short notice to work on broke aircraft and the MRO I worked for starts you out at $14.50-$15.50 an hour. So starting out at $15 is not bad considering they are 4 on 4 off and most MRO's work you hard haha.


I talked to some of the guys here and they said if the money was right they would go to Boeing but that they are going to the schools because they can get cheap labor out of the guys just out of school. With a few years under your belt you could go to Boeing making a lot mor emoney and avoid the 787 lay off's and with more time in then that will open doors to work the line at Boeing...... no way you will do that being new.


Now that I have thought about it if it is an entry level job at Boeing that might not be a bad gig. Im just trying to help you see the big picture in all this.

If avionics is what you like then run with it just don't stick to it and it only.... in the airlines at least ther is no specality guys like there is in MRO/contract work. I was fairly good at everything because if there was no sheetmetal work I did cabin........ saved me from getting sent home a lot.

Pay attention when you learn to trouble shoot the cabin lighting system..... that stuff is allways acting up but is a fairly simple system.


BE A SPONGE!!!!!

MustangEater82

iTrader: (1)

LOL I am actually good with cabin lighting and floor lighting, I worked in a movie theatre for a long time I am an expert on aisle lighting, and cabin lighting is pretty much the same as menuboards and most regular lighting.

The Boeing job start pay was $20/hour, benefits, paid expenses to move. They said a 3 year graduate was already up to $32ish. With overtime was making over $100k but this was a rep, so who knows whats up. Guy seemed pretty straight though, like someone who actually works, not an HR froo froo, my company is nice work for me type. Maybe thats what made had me get appealed to the job over others. Alot of the other job recruiters were HR lackeys, 15% of them didn't know what an A&P mechanic was.

Yeah I know the schools are great at hyping on the employees,(makes you feel better about giving them all your money) especially my school since they love to pat themselves on the back with their reputation, its funny to see some of my classmates that are lazy and kind of suck, thinking they will get a job because they have Embry Riddle on the resume. I can see through alot of the bullshit.

The regionals I saw were looking to start around $16-17, maybe a $5k sigining bonus for Avionics, working on CRJs...


From all the boeing training stuff we have been going through, I can already tell you know one Boeing, you pretty much know them all. We've gone through the APU and split bus system on the 737, and 757/767 all pretty similar.


If I could get on with 737s somewhere I'd be happy.




I have considered Gulfstream, and the corporate world. I have met a 3-4 employees, and heard nothing but good things about them.

JUICED96Z

iTrader: (2)

We have 145's, 170's and now a few 190's.

Cabin lighting is pretty simple only a few things that can break. The isle lighting is pretty bullet proof and rarley act's up...... its the reading lights and ceiling lights that are problems......... Here is a tip...... if a ceailing light is inop keep it simple.... find a bulb the same length on the bird and swap them and see if it was just a bad bulb haha. That tends to be the first step though...

That pay sounds about right...... I could see a guy with 3 years making about that but that depends on a lot of factor's. They are taking sheetmetal guys with 5 years and paying them about $50 an hour. The travel pay goes for everyone, I think they even pay for hotels on your way out and only require you to drive like 2XX miles a day on average or something...

Forget about 737's, United parked them all and that is the reason I am not on the floor right now. Southwest is the only airline really flying them in large numbers (thats all they fly) and other airlines are flying the more efficent A320's in country. Yeah there are the wide bodies out there but the most jobs is in the E jets, A320's, 757 stuff like that. Like you said, if you know boeing you know all but if it was me and I was in your shoes I would learn the most on the systems and not the airframe. If you know Boeing systems you can work on about any Boeing, and need little OJT for the little things that seperate the say 757 that you are working on compared to a 737... same with airbus....... and some what the same on the E jets.... We have maintenance controllers that are working the 170's (desk job) that have never worked on one but have worked 145's so they have a pretty good idea on the 170 and catch on quick........ a 190 is pretty much just a 170 but a little larger...... pretty much a smaller 737 by a few seats but more efficent....

Once you get on the floor they could care less what school you went to, they look at certs and what you have worked on and what you can do that is all they care about. Companies will put you threw their own training......... keep copies of all the certs/training you get from them..... this will come in handy down the road... if you go to Boeing go to all the classes they offer......... foactory Boeing training looks really good on a resume.

When you apply for a job only send a resume with the experience that pertains to that job...... if it is Avionics on an E Jet they are not going to care much about 777 stuff..... that tip will get you far......... use the resume space to go into detail on your E Jet training.


Look at the benifiets package also..... some may pay a buck an hour more but the one that pays less might cover 90% with no deductible Right now I have that package It's worth making a little less.

if the regional only flys for one airline then chances are you can only fly for free with them and that airline...... mine fly's for all the major airlines so guess what? Just antoher perk


Ask a lot of question's on the APU stuff... they tend to have problems a lot and require quite a bit of trouble shooting..... if you know APU's then that will help a lot on the line or at least doing overnight line hangar work. Same goes for the air conditioning. Right now we have one APU with an overtemp issue....... just having one APU out is pretty good haha.

If you are single and can hang out in WA for a while then Boeing might be a good idea. Do some searching for crash pad's..... they are houses or condo's that are rented out to mechanics and pilots cheap and a bunch of people pile into one..... there is one in Ohio that I hear is like $25 a week.. most are pilots so you never see them and if you like OT you just need a place to sleep.

This is a lot cheaper then a hotel and not many people know about them. A hotel may run you $100 a week. A lot of guys also buy older RV's and live in them since camp grounds are pretty cheap.


Corporate is nice but you work on what the company has really. I know some out there allows guys to use the bird on their vacation.. as long as it is not needed they will fly you out to were you are going..... I don't know how many places do this... I know one place gives the flight crews limo's and company credit card's for down time when they are waiting for the executies to come back to the airport to go home..... don't know the name of it though.... hear it is in Texas...

The problem with that work is that if you scratch something you just can't hit it with touch up paint........... If there is a leak that is legal you still have to fix it because it looks bad. You tend to have great working conditions and stable work though.

Some compaines have multiple birds....... IRL here has like 2 or 3 birds and a helo so you get time on multiple airframes..... Simons mall's (shopping malls) has a hangar here and two Gulf Stream 10's...... they upgraded from the last ones they had and the only difference was pilot comfort's......... it was a thank your to the pilots........

Only down side is odd hours....... you might get a call at 2am saying the jet needs to be ready at 5am for a short notice flight and guess what? Also Corparate as far as I know does no thave many specialty guys..... mostly guys that can do a lot of different stuff.... knowing avionics helps a lot though... just don't count on doing just avioncs but that is nice because is is something different every day.... oh and maintenance test flights is cool...... get to go up and have fun in multi-million dollar biz jets haha.... just don't cut a seat or stain a carpet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PitchblackC3

iTrader: (3)

Some good reading. I am qualified, but I haven't taken the test yet.

JUICED96Z

iTrader: (2)

Mustang, I forgot that I have some Boeing trouble shooting books, I can't remember how many I have but one is a line/avionics book and is over all the Boeing system's.

If you want to get serious about avionics Ill give you a good deal on them/it... I will try and get the ISBN numbers tonight and you can do an Amazon search.

I would keep them but I am in the process of starting my own buisness and if it goes to plan the only maintenence I will do again is GA stuff on the side. They look brand new and have a lot of good stuff on BUS's and APU's.

May jus tbe one, I can't remember. I also have a small termenoligy book also that would be a nice addition in a tool box, comes in handy for the avionics and wrench turners.

MustangEater82

iTrader: (1)

give me a price... we have access to some training programs from some major carriers that my school is not sure if they are supposed to have or not the teachers joke that they had it and left, and don't want ot ask and find out.

I just want anything on my resume, my school has a little boeing bias, and lets face it alot of aircraft are boeing.


as for the 737, yes I know about Southwest but that is the wetdream job, not going to happen for awhile, they are the company to workfor, but despite whats out there, I feel the 737 is still the workhorse of the industry.

MustangEater82

iTrader: (1)

get the test guides, and go from there. If interested, I have the ASA test software for general/airframe/powerplant for cheap, never registered it. I usually use the software at school, most schools don't have it so I would sell it for $50, its $80-100 online and in stores.

Its WELL worth it trust me... even if you ignore my offer and just are planning to test. Even if you know your ****, the FAA, is ~40 years behind and speak english like a 10 yr old immigrant.

JUICED96Z

iTrader: (2)

Southwest is not what it used to be a few years ago......... it used to be the everyone knows everyone company and from what I hear now it is just another airline but it is the most stable airline....... I worked on their birds for quite a while and they have a nice maintenance program but they are pretty much flying bus's....... they are people movers that that is it, no first class no nothing....... some are real pigs but like I said nice program. If Southwest is your goal plan on most likley moving to TX at some point unless you get a line job. Look for MRO's that work on ther birds. This will give you a chance to get familiar with the Southwest paperwork and computer program's, policies ect ect. There is one in Seattle that pay's pretty good, you could work for Boeing for a while then work for them and then have a descent shot at Southwest because it is less training they will have to put you threw.

Ill get you a price and the SBN, I am pretty sure the one book is a 737 line book.


The 737 really is not the work horse these day's man if anything in country it is the regional jets that are the work horse..... if it was not for Soutwest you would be lucky to ever see one...... United had a ton of them and parked them all...... the 190 is not much smaller but more efficent so airlines are going to it or the A320 wich is a move efficent 737. Nothing against the 737 but anyone who works on them or fly's them will tell you that it's days are numberd and there is far better stuff out there replacing it.... Southwest has them because they got a ton of them if not most or all of them out of the bone yard for cheap..... If I remember right they now own all of them over over 90% of them... United only owned like half of their 737's alone. If Southwest had 320's and owned them all then they would be making more money period.......... some of the 737's they have are so old that they need all new skins..... I know because I was tring to get on that skin change team untill the enconomey took a nose dive and Southwest decided to wait..... most look like turds up close also haha.

On the computer test program I LOVE it, I have the 2009 version and I learn a lot more and easier with it then with the books........ well worth the money..... it is also in the same format as the FAA written's so that helps a lot.

PitchblackC3

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, I agree. Def something I want to pursue. I am going to be going to flight school within the next 2 years, so I want to knock this out before then. I am finishing up a semester of college this week. I will have more time to look into this stuff in a few days. I might take you up on your offer.
Thanks

colby72olds

iTrader: (7)

Subscribed. Don't have time to read it all now.

I start school Jan 11 for A&P certification, so I need to read this thread.

ici8uup

I have a current a&p here in wisconsin entry level jobs are hard to come by! anyone know anyone in W.I.? I'm currently driving cement truck I worked for skyways( now gone) midwest(parked all the md 80's) went to c.o. for fam courses for skywest(got sent home with the two other guys)and fianally got beat down from mesaba. I hate the application process(internet) how do you get to know some one from a piece of paper? anyone got any leads let me know got experiance on dorenier,md 80,beech 1900d's p.w 300c's pt-6's did a lot of engine changes gear rebuilding but all together only got 6 mo experiance.when i'm working i loved it some days i worked on other peoples cars all night I have been working on cars for 25 years grown tired of beating apart rusty junk did concrete for 10 years paid well got old too the worst part i ha in aviaton was checking the oil in the apu in finding out the door was full of deicing fluid Ahhhrgh hate the stuff, p.s. have your chit together when you leave out of 34 people that started with me i'm the only one who grauduated, I went to colorado aero tech