GM says it "disappointed" and "betrayed" consumers
12-12-2008, 01:52 PM
#41
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^^^ Exactly the hourly rate with benefits included for these employees is almost 80 bucks an hour. With them making 30/hr doing super easy jobs.. I make half that an hour working for an insurance company having to handle injuries, doctor offices, all kinds of stupid people. I still am able to pay my bills comfortably and own a house.
12-12-2008, 04:25 PM
#42
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yeah i make a hair under $16/hr....those people making $30/hr+ at companies that can't maintain a customer base in its own country of operations aren't hurting too bad. i don't want them to lose thier jobs or suffer, but i don't want to bail out a failing business i own no stock in and will see no return from. "**** them." ...there, i said it. flame on if you want, call me ignorant, but i'm a VERY skilled laborer and i don't make jack, yet i budget my earnings, save when i can, and invest what's left, and although i don't have MUCH to show for it, i'd be ok if i lost my job. those people should have done the same. 3 million jobs lost won't be all bad, there will be new businesses started, existing businesses taking new-hires, and so on and so forth.
bottom line: it is not, and should not, be my (or your) responsibility to bail out GM. so what if it's a huge business people rely on. others go out every day and you never hear about it. small towns go under, people lose everything, others gain everything, and the news never tells you about it.
bottom line: it is not, and should not, be my (or your) responsibility to bail out GM. so what if it's a huge business people rely on. others go out every day and you never hear about it. small towns go under, people lose everything, others gain everything, and the news never tells you about it.
12-12-2008, 04:52 PM
#43
2000 SS-
You aren't your tax money. But since you think so, I'm curious, are you okay with GIVING yourself away to the financial sector? Or would you rather LOAN yourself to the automakers?
You aren't your tax money. But since you think so, I'm curious, are you okay with GIVING yourself away to the financial sector? Or would you rather LOAN yourself to the automakers?
12-12-2008, 07:42 PM
#44
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wtf are you talking about? all i'm saying is all these gov't bailouts AREN'T coming from a magical banker in some underground facility...they're coming out of every taxpayers pockets in one way or another. i don't want any of my money being wasted on a a bailout that is only going to prolong the inevitable.
12-12-2008, 08:01 PM
#45
Translation: the U.S. needs to fail.
That's essentially what you're saying because that's EXACTLY what's going to happen if the U.S. auto industry is forced into a bankruptcy/restructuring.
This could ultimately lead to what will someday be referred to as THE END of life in the U.S. as it was once known.
Such a shame.
That's essentially what you're saying because that's EXACTLY what's going to happen if the U.S. auto industry is forced into a bankruptcy/restructuring.
This could ultimately lead to what will someday be referred to as THE END of life in the U.S. as it was once known.
Such a shame.
I think more people need to realize thats what will happen. If you think the layoffs are bad now...the trickle down effect will affect EVERYONE you know.
12-12-2008, 08:07 PM
#46
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history has proven over and over again that all great societies and civilizations follow the same trend, ultimately ending in their downfall after 150-250 years. this should not be a surprise to anyone when/if it happens. i, for one, however do not think the auto industry's failure will result in the collapse of this nation. if you people think GM will just vanish when they go belly up, you're wrong. the name, rights, and all the stuff that goes with it will be for sale, and someone will pick it up. we can't NOT have auto manufacturers in the US, something will crawl out from uner the rubble.....just my $.02
12-12-2008, 08:20 PM
#47
history has proven over and over again that all great societies and civilizations follow the same trend, ultimately ending in their downfall after 150-250 years. this should not be a surprise to anyone when/if it happens. i, for one, however do not think the auto industry's failure will result in the collapse of this nation. if you people think GM will just vanish when they go belly up, you're wrong. the name, rights, and all the stuff that goes with it will be for sale, and someone will pick it up. we can't NOT have auto manufacturers in the US, something will crawl out from uner the rubble.....just my $.02
I work as a mechanic in a independant neighborhood repair shop. My job is plenty secure no matter what happens, but everyone that works in any facet(sp?) of the auto industry will be effected.
I say give them 100 billion if thats what it takes. But it has to be paid back.
the pay cuts have to start at the top. I voted for Ron Paul but i can't wait for Barack to get into office.
12-12-2008, 08:36 PM
#48
I work on just about every make of car beside exotic european's, and personally I love most gm vehicals. Its hard to beat a honda or toyotas engine that needs a water pump and 3 timing belts to go 300,000 miles, but the americans quality has gotten a lot better in the last 15 years whether you want to believe it or not. Although I'm putting a set of headgaskets on a 2002 deville at work currently and its ******* rediculas the amount of work.
America got it twisted when we started buying these POS hyandai's and kia's. I guess everyone thought they were the same thing as a honda or toyota and with a 100,000 mile warrenty who could go wrong? Fcking garbage.
America got it twisted when we started buying these POS hyandai's and kia's. I guess everyone thought they were the same thing as a honda or toyota and with a 100,000 mile warrenty who could go wrong? Fcking garbage.
12-12-2008, 09:28 PM
#49
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I work on just about every make of car beside exotic european's, and personally I love most gm vehicals. Its hard to beat a honda or toyotas engine that needs a water pump and 3 timing belts to go 300,000 miles, but the americans quality has gotten a lot better in the last 15 years whether you want to believe it or not. Although I'm putting a set of headgaskets on a 2002 deville at work currently and its ******* rediculas the amount of work.
America got it twisted when we started buying these POS hyandai's and kia's. I guess everyone thought they were the same thing as a honda or toyota and with a 100,000 mile warrenty who could go wrong? Fcking garbage.
America got it twisted when we started buying these POS hyandai's and kia's. I guess everyone thought they were the same thing as a honda or toyota and with a 100,000 mile warrenty who could go wrong? Fcking garbage.
you know....college students have been building solar powered, human powered, and electric cars for YEARS now. i went to UMR and have seen them first hand, start to finish, concept to final product...and their budget's are next to nil when compared to GM, Ford, or Chrylser. now, why can't a multi-billion dollar industry come up with a vehicle, say, 50% more efficient than your run-of-the-mill engineering student? that's an easy question to answer: they're lazy and market to the wrong demographics with poor foresight. the million dollar question is: why have they waited until they were on the brink of bankruptcy to start being "green?" you can't tell me they didn't see this coming two years ago.
12-12-2008, 10:35 PM
#50
Why does everyone talk about GM coming a LONG way? As if all the Japanese manufacturers were making better cars 20yrs ago? ALL car companies have come along way. How many imports from the 70s and 80s do you see around? Not many. Sure there were less sold but they were NOT better quality cars than the domestics and IMO are not better cars today. Ever driven or worked on an 86-89 Accord? I hate those cars. They are ugly, uncomfortable and the engines are poorly designed. Were GM's cars better in the late 80s? They definitely weren't any worse.
12-12-2008, 10:56 PM
#51
Why does everyone talk about GM coming a LONG way? As if all the Japanese manufacturers were making better cars 20yrs ago? ALL car companies have come along way. How many imports from the 70s and 80s do you see around? Not many. Sure there were less sold but they were NOT better quality cars than the domestics and IMO are not better cars today. Ever driven or worked on an 86-89 Accord? I hate those cars. They are ugly, uncomfortable and the engines are poorly designed. Were GM's cars better in the late 80s? They definitely weren't any worse.
The seat's were stiff as ****, bodys rotted out up here in the rust belt, but I have to disagree about the motors, thats a 2.2 non vtec iirc, a timing and balance shaft belt and maybe a water pump if theres shaft play and your good to 200,000.
The one thing I always like about honda...they run their brake lines inside the car and in places where they use salt like where I live, those little things go a long way.
12-12-2008, 11:07 PM
#52
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The entire "circus" that has transpired over the last month has soured many people that might have been somewhat neutral to decide rightly or wrongly that they don't want to support the American auto companies.
At a time, when the industry needs every buyer it can get, it's likely that their reputation has become even more tranished in the eyes of many Americans. I'm talking about the people that buy a Japanese or Korean TV set because they believe that it's the best deal for them. There used to be a huge electronics industry in the USA making TVs but the American TVs were more expensive for the same quality and people starting buying the imported TVs instead. Adios to the American TV industry. Some of the basic requirements for most people are that a car is both reliable and financially affordable and they buy cars that they PERCEIVE meet those requirements the best.
We can all discuss car build quality, and whose fault it is, etc... but at the end of the day, if people don't buy their cars, it won't matter much.
At a time, when the industry needs every buyer it can get, it's likely that their reputation has become even more tranished in the eyes of many Americans. I'm talking about the people that buy a Japanese or Korean TV set because they believe that it's the best deal for them. There used to be a huge electronics industry in the USA making TVs but the American TVs were more expensive for the same quality and people starting buying the imported TVs instead. Adios to the American TV industry. Some of the basic requirements for most people are that a car is both reliable and financially affordable and they buy cars that they PERCEIVE meet those requirements the best.
We can all discuss car build quality, and whose fault it is, etc... but at the end of the day, if people don't buy their cars, it won't matter much.
12-15-2008, 03:11 AM
#53
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so its cool that we pass 700 billlion, thats 700,000,000,000. to white collar jobs and wall street because they all gambled with our credit and morgages and fucked the boat. but when it comes time to provide our AMERICAN auto industry with a 15 billion dollar LOAN, not bailout, which in turn supports blue collar jobs, everyone ***** themselves. how much more is it going to cost us as tax payers when millions of people lose their jobs? if we lose our auto industry we lose are main manufacturing capabilities, if god forbid we were to enter another kind of conflict on a global scale. I agree that restructering and and a better business plan is needed, but to simply shrug it off and laugh about the colapse of our auto companies is stupid. if our rivals are happy about this happening should we be? losing the big 3 is losing our country.
12-15-2008, 02:43 PM
#54
i agree, domestics have come a long way...a LONG way. but also, it's too little too late. i mean, who REALLY gave a **** about a hybrid or electric car until last year? besides toyota and honda...
why have they waited until they were on the brink of bankruptcy to start being "green?" you can't tell me they didn't see this coming two years ago.
why have they waited until they were on the brink of bankruptcy to start being "green?" you can't tell me they didn't see this coming two years ago.
Open your eyes guys, the statement that the Japanese do everything right and the American OEMs do everything wrong doesn't fly when you start looking closer at the Foreigners.
12-15-2008, 04:12 PM
#55
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A little harsh on GM since Toyota opened a giant trucks plant in Texas at the exact wrong time along with introducing a V8 in the 4runner that averages 14mpg, along with their poor mpg sixes. Nissan has also been pimping worst in class mileage Armadas and Titans the last few years. In the meantime GM full size trucks have been as good or better than all of the competitors in fuel mileage every year.
Open your eyes guys, the statement that the Japanese do everything right and the American OEMs do everything wrong doesn't fly when you start looking closer at the Foreigners.
Open your eyes guys, the statement that the Japanese do everything right and the American OEMs do everything wrong doesn't fly when you start looking closer at the Foreigners.
you will never catch me driving a japanese truck, period. but it's also going to be a long time before i drive a new(er) GM truck as well. they've got longevity and quality, but they need to work on value.
12-15-2008, 11:18 PM
#56
A little harsh on GM since Toyota opened a giant trucks plant in Texas at the exact wrong time along with introducing a V8 in the 4runner that averages 14mpg, along with their poor mpg sixes. Nissan has also been pimping worst in class mileage Armadas and Titans the last few years. In the meantime GM full size trucks have been as good or better than all of the competitors in fuel mileage every year.
Open your eyes guys, the statement that the Japanese do everything right and the American OEMs do everything wrong doesn't fly when you start looking closer at the Foreigners.
Open your eyes guys, the statement that the Japanese do everything right and the American OEMs do everything wrong doesn't fly when you start looking closer at the Foreigners.
x 100 
12-15-2008, 11:53 PM
#57
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You don't want them to go under because it would bring the rest of America with them.
I can tell you this; if anyone wants to trade for a nice low mileage 06 Toyota RAV4 for their same year full size GM truck or Avalanche I have one waiting for them! It is by far the worse POS vehicle I have owned in years including other than GM vehicles. Yeh, Toyota is so superior my ***! I buy an low mileage import every so often and I'm still waiting to be impressed. In the mean time I drive my same 115k 02 GMC thet I bought new that drives just as it did when it was new!
I can tell you this; if anyone wants to trade for a nice low mileage 06 Toyota RAV4 for their same year full size GM truck or Avalanche I have one waiting for them! It is by far the worse POS vehicle I have owned in years including other than GM vehicles. Yeh, Toyota is so superior my ***! I buy an low mileage import every so often and I'm still waiting to be impressed. In the mean time I drive my same 115k 02 GMC thet I bought new that drives just as it did when it was new!
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am so GLAD to hear someone actually say this!!!!!!!!!!!!!
12-16-2008, 12:12 AM
#58
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history has proven over and over again that all great societies and civilizations follow the same trend, ultimately ending in their downfall after 150-250 years. this should not be a surprise to anyone when/if it happens. i, for one, however do not think the auto industry's failure will result in the collapse of this nation.
If GM goes under.... it will cause millions of job losses.... hell.... even Toyota fears it may hurt them more than it would help.
It could even drive the country in to a depression.... which would cost us Trillions and take YEARS to recover from.
Even if we wind up GIVING GM $100B.... it will be better than the price we all would pay as the result of a depression.
And for the ones that say let them fail.... that failure has a cost as well....
The cost of letting them fail is around $200B!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...lB8&refer=home
Did I miss something..... $100B<$200B
The cost of failure is truly greater than the cost of a bailout!!!!!!!!!!!
if you people think GM will just vanish when they go belly up, you're wrong. the name, rights, and all the stuff that goes with it will be for sale, and someone will pick it up. we can't NOT have auto manufacturers in the US, something will crawl out from uner the rubble.....just my $.02
Last edited by wabmorgan; 12-16-2008 at 12:18 AM.
12-16-2008, 12:55 AM
#59
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all I got to say is GM spent all kinds money and took out a Print Add for this crap?!? Yes because there are soo many people that still read printed media on a daily basis. Just shows how out of touch they are. What next a fireside chat on AM radio from GM? 
