LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

You should read this:I don't like it either but whatever is needed to keep these companies alive is fine with me at this point.
I do find it ironic that everyone is so quick to point out how GM couldn't do anything right up until this point and now when they finally step up and make some harsh decisions that could contribute towards their future/survival (and subsequently towards maintaining HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF JOBS and tax base) then they get bashed for that as well.
I guess some people are simply impossible to please.

The Manalishi

iTrader: (3)

Its funny that several companies that offer rear drive, higher performance sedans are doing just fine for the time period. Why can't GM. Laziness and a lack of foresight. That is all there is to it. "People will buy our cars because they have a Chevy badge on them." They are learning, the hard way, that they will not. Maybe they will wake up to what people want and will buy, I won't be holding my breath for that to happen. I am waiting to see the new Camaro before I buy it, if it is what they said it would be then I will buy one if not I will not feel guilty spending my money elsewhere.

integraxtc

iTrader: (11)

The companies that seem to be fairing well are also luxury brands, and you pay for the product.

Chevy doesn't quite have that luxury.

Cadillac undercuts these brands too.

And these powerful cars from the germans usually have a fat gas-guzzler tax that is just passed onto the buyers of these cars. Affluent professionals that jump at the badge.

GM doesn't have that luxury, and partly because they didn't play their cards right, especially w/ Cadillac, in the previous decade to place it in that tier of competitors.

So now they're playing catch-up and have to charge less.

Irunelevens

No no, it's not GM's fault at all. We SHOULD buy their cars just because of the badge, cuz that's what it means to be an American... right?

The Manalishi

iTrader: (3)

The brands I am referring to are "luxury" brands. If you look at the price per mile they aren't that much more expensive than a well equipped GM car of comparable performance. I have never paid a gas guzzler tax on any German car I have purchased. In fact they usually get great gas mileage. Cadillac builds a great car but they appeal to a certain market, not a wide range like some other luxury cars. I don't want to bash GM but if they built a car car that could directly compete with the other manufacturers I would be happy to buy one. I just haven't found one that does it yet. I am a fan of BMW's and as long as they build great cars I will remain a fan. When Caddy or any other US car competes I will be the first in line to buy it. As I have said if the Camaro is what they say it will be I will own one, not as a daily driver, but I will still have one. When GM builds a great car as a daily driver I will also buy one of them, as long as they build FWD pieces of crap or substandard RWD cars, I will shop elsewhere.

JD_AMG

Where are you been the past few years?

KW4life06

iTrader: (12)

thank you JD AMG. many of the other comments would have been more relevant 2... 3 years ago. The real fact is GM is playing catch up, but their products are almost all on/above par now. Its the buyers market that is being waited on now, for the most part. New CTS was Car of the Year, and new Malibu I believe was North American car of the year, as well as picked for best in initial quality by JD power. Awards they havent won for anything but trucks in the last several decades.

z_speedfreak

iTrader: (3)

*****... they cant get anything right these days. its sad.
btw I found the un-edited photo from the NAIAS>

DiscerningZ32

I'm actually looking for a reasonably priced nicely equiped RWD car right now

The only things from GM I'm considering are the new CTS and the Pontiac G8...

Everyone else has comparable cars to these though...

Even though everyone is raving about the new CTS;
When looking at those other cars...
It has some seriously stiff competition...

The CTS direct injection model has a base retail of $38k

It direct competitors include:
Acura TL SH-AWD $38.5k
Audi A4 3.2 Quattro $40k
BMW 335i $40k
Hyundai Genesis 4.6 $37k
Infiniti G37 $33k
Lexus IS 350 $36.6k
Lincoln MKS $37k

With the exception of the Audi and Lincoln, they all also make the same or more power (on paper)...

One of the biggest things a few of these cars have on the cts is their amount of body style options, like someone else mentioned.
From sedan, wagon, coupe, or even convertible...

The thing Cadillac has on these cars is it's a bit roomier and I think it's better looking inside and out then the majority.

We'll have to see what consumers go for...
Personally, I'm shopping used

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

Nah, no need to support American corporations.
No need to support American jobs.
No need to support the American military.
No need to support the American government.
No need to support your children/grandchildren.
Hell, why even buy an American home, may as well buy a Japanese house too if in the end it doesn't really matter, right?

That's where it's all headed and according to you, that's all fine and good too.

At what point does a nation begin to see the bigger picture/take care of it's own first?

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

Exactly.

Even if GM/Ford/Chrysler were to introduce an exact clone of a BMW 5 series or Lexus LS460 and even sell it for a mere $20k most import nameplate only nutswingers would still find a way to bash and ignore it.

Sarge_13

iTrader: (1)

And you domestic nameplate only nutswingers still find a way to bash the top of the line foreign cars, no matter where they're made. I agree we should be supporting the economy, but holy ****. Have you seen most of the crap coming out of Detroit vs the cars (I'd buy an American truck over any other hands down) from outside the country? I mean honestly, have you ever ridden in or driven a BMW, Lexus, Benz? ****, even a Passat or Accord?

DiscerningZ32

What about the currently existing comparably priced luxury cars, like those I listed before???

Personally, I think I'd rather have a G37 sedan over a CTS.
And I HAVE test driven both...
The caddy was more spacious, but the G felt more agile and powerful. I also liked the interior a bit more (don't like the pop-up nav on the CTS too much)...
But all of that is personal taste...

.
That being said, I would choose a CTS-V over the other super sedans

JD_AMG

+1
I can't stand nut swingers on either side, but at least the American car nut swingers have logic behind their reasoning (trying to support their own economy).

When you compare apples to apples its not that far off(or sometimes better), so please don't try and compare things like the cobalt to a BMW. The CTS is definitely on par(if not better than some) with the quality of the Euros, and the Malibu is as well within its own class.

Irunelevens

Personally, I think you need help.

Sarge_13

iTrader: (1)

Show me where I said anything about a Cobalt, please, do.

I was talking mid-full size sedans (i.e. Accord, Passat, etc.) not cheap econo-boxes as most brands has their fair share of those.

DiscerningZ32

Those who say we should buy American products to help our economy DO realize that importing products, such as cars, does improve our overall social welfare right??? And no, I'm not talking about social welfare as in aid to those who are poor... I'm talking about social welfare the function, as in a measure of the overall quality of life using producer AND consumer welfare. It's not only about the producer.

The Manalishi

iTrader: (3)

I will not say it isn't a nice car because it is. Here is what I will say it doesn't move me the same way some other premium automobiles in the same segment. I have driven them all and I will say that the CTS is close it isn't quite there. It seems like they don't want to offend the customer base that they have, can't blame them for that, but I don't fit in that customer base. I'm not over 50 and I don't buy a car because of a badge. If a Hyandai meets my requirements I'll buy it, they don't, but you know what I mean. The CTS could be a great car if they got rid of the Cadillac has to be comfortable at the expense of comfort mentallity that exists now and will continue for the foreseeable future. I'm not a brand loyal nutswinger but I will not comprimise what I expect a car to deliver. Be it foreign or domestic I don't care. Once I drive the new CTS-V then maybe I will be swayed, that car really interests me, but until then I have to say that in my opinion the US manufacturers just don't get it.

bmxer8699

iTrader: (16)

i just prefer to buy american due to loyalty to the country, imo thats whats wrong with americans now days, they have no loyalty, i NEVER see asian people driving american cars.. whys that?? brand loyalty to their country.

something americans should wake the hell up and do. heck the new malibu is a nice car for a daily driver, id sport it if i needed a dder.

but i will admit, the bmw line up trumps the new G8 GT, but also costs much more.

The Manalishi

iTrader: (3)

I think I'm pretty loyal to America.