G8 and Camaro Will Be Last Holden-based GM Products Sold in the US
01-16-2009, 05:03 PM
#1
TECH Veteran
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ Hometown: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 4,231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
G8 and Camaro Will Be Last Holden-based GM Products Sold in the US General Motors confirms G8 and Camaro are the last Aussie RWD models for America
GM snuffs Holden's global RWD dream
By BYRON MATHIOUDAKIS in DETROIT
13 January 2009
DEVELOPMENT of future large rear-wheel drive vehicle programs beyond the current-generation Holden-devised Zeta architecture has halted at General Motors, according to global product development vice-chairman Bob Lutz.
Speaking to Australian media at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit this week, Mr Lutz confirmed that increasingly punitive fuel-economy target legislation, combined with the severe economic crisis, had left the corporation with no option but to cease future RWD large-car development.
This means that GM may have to keep using the ageing Sigma RWD and all-wheel-drive architecture that has served on its upper-echelon vehicles such as the Cadillac CTS and STS sedans and the SRX luxury SUV.
The Sigma architecture debuted in 2001 beneath the first-generation CTS.
“The strategy we had a few years ago of basically deriving a whole sweeping global portfolio off the Australian Zeta architecture ... frankly, we have had to abandon that dream,” Mr Lutz said.
“This is because, whether you are in the United States or in China, fuel economy mandates are getting more and more severe, and we just could not base our strategy on doing relatively large and relatively heavy rear-wheel-drive cars.
“And I suspect the same thing is going to start to bite the traditional rear-wheel drive producers.”
The Zeta’s death knell in the US follows GM’s announcement last week that the VE utility-derived Pontiac G8 ST program had been axed just months before the first vehicle was due to be made and shipped to North America.
Mr Lutz also confirmed that the Australian-developed Chevrolet Camaro – which is also built off the Zeta platform architecture – has suffered delays as GM tries to get back on its corporate feet. The convertible version will now arrive in 2011 while development of a right-hand drive model has also been set back by a few months – at the very least.
“Frankly, when we looked at investments that we could defer a little bit because they were non-essential or not critical to the short-term survival of the company, one of the things we pushed out a little bit was the Camaro convertible,” he said.
“It was going to initially be just one year after the coupe (on sale in the next few months in America), and now it is going to be two years after the coupe.
“And another thing we deferred was the right-hand-drive version. I’m confident it is going to happen, it’s just that it is going to happen a little later.”
How long the VE Commodore-based Pontiac G8 – which is built at Holden’s Elizabeth plant in Adelaide – survives is tied in with Pontiac’s fate.
“It all depends on what we are going to do with the Pontiac brand,” Mr Lutz said. “It is one of the US brands that we have announced that is under ‘strategic review’.
“With the current financial reality of the company, we’ve got too many kids and too many mouths to feed, and three brands ... actually three-and-a-half brands are under strategic review: Saturn, Hummer, Saab and ‘kind of’ Pontiac.
“We’ve said that we are going to focus Pontiac down to one or two entries – and for the time being one of the two entries will be the G8, the other being the Pontiac Vibe, and of course the Solstice Roadster and Coupe – and that’s basically the Pontiac line-up.”
Nevertheless, GM’s global design director (and former Holden design chief) Mike Simcoe told GoAuto in Detroit that the Pontiac G8 had become profitable in North America in recent months, despite selling around half as many as GM anticipated, due to the big drop in the value of the Australian dollar compared to the US currency.
And the HSV-based 6.2-litre Pontiac GXP will still be launched as scheduled in February.
Mr Lutz also acknowledged that there would be a next-generation Commodore produced in Australia using a development of the Zeta architecture that debuted as the VE series in July 2006.
Due out in about 2012 or 2013, it is believed that the next Commodore’s ‘top hat’ (body and interior) will change, as will parts of the drivetrain to accommodate alternative fuel powerplants, but the basic chassis will be carried over.
“It is our intent to continue the Australian rear-wheel-drive cars; we will continue building them and doing a next generation and so forth and so on,” Mr Lutz said.
“And, to be honest, they continue to be my favourite cars. I think they are absolutely wonderful – but the regulatory environment is such that it would be imprudent to base a whole global platform strategy on them ... much to my personal chagrin, by the way.”
Mr Lutz said that, providing GM pulled through the current economic crisis, he expected the auto giant might again be open to the development of a new RWD platform with an expert partner like Holden in Australia – in the long-term.
“What many of us would like to do (one day) is to do an all-new global rear-wheel drive architecture that would be considerably smaller, lighter and be capable of taking four-cylinder powertrains,” he said.
“That, I think, could be globally shared. It’s not even in the plan at this point; it’s just what we tell ourselves in that there is going to have to be a next-generation Camaro, and there is going to have to be a next-generation Cadillac sedan, and so there is going to have to be a smaller and a way more efficient rear-wheel-drive architecture.
“But at this point it is just a gleam in our eye.”
Meanwhile, Mr Lutz revealed that GM’s decision to green light the design, development and assembly of its next-generation ‘Delta’ small car in Elizabeth leaves Holden in a stronger position to weather the vagaries of consumer trends and economic downturns.
“Holden has basically committed to localising a compact car for Australia’s future because we see that is where the growth is,” he said.
Holden managing director and CEO Mark Reuss also said in Detroit this week that sealing the small-car deal for Australia was one of his top priorities when he began his stint in Australia one year ago, and that much of his time since has been spent implementing the program.
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25753D0016D9D3
GM snuffs Holden's global RWD dream
By BYRON MATHIOUDAKIS in DETROIT
13 January 2009
DEVELOPMENT of future large rear-wheel drive vehicle programs beyond the current-generation Holden-devised Zeta architecture has halted at General Motors, according to global product development vice-chairman Bob Lutz.
Speaking to Australian media at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit this week, Mr Lutz confirmed that increasingly punitive fuel-economy target legislation, combined with the severe economic crisis, had left the corporation with no option but to cease future RWD large-car development.
This means that GM may have to keep using the ageing Sigma RWD and all-wheel-drive architecture that has served on its upper-echelon vehicles such as the Cadillac CTS and STS sedans and the SRX luxury SUV.
The Sigma architecture debuted in 2001 beneath the first-generation CTS.
“The strategy we had a few years ago of basically deriving a whole sweeping global portfolio off the Australian Zeta architecture ... frankly, we have had to abandon that dream,” Mr Lutz said.
“This is because, whether you are in the United States or in China, fuel economy mandates are getting more and more severe, and we just could not base our strategy on doing relatively large and relatively heavy rear-wheel-drive cars.
“And I suspect the same thing is going to start to bite the traditional rear-wheel drive producers.”
The Zeta’s death knell in the US follows GM’s announcement last week that the VE utility-derived Pontiac G8 ST program had been axed just months before the first vehicle was due to be made and shipped to North America.
Mr Lutz also confirmed that the Australian-developed Chevrolet Camaro – which is also built off the Zeta platform architecture – has suffered delays as GM tries to get back on its corporate feet. The convertible version will now arrive in 2011 while development of a right-hand drive model has also been set back by a few months – at the very least.
“Frankly, when we looked at investments that we could defer a little bit because they were non-essential or not critical to the short-term survival of the company, one of the things we pushed out a little bit was the Camaro convertible,” he said.
“It was going to initially be just one year after the coupe (on sale in the next few months in America), and now it is going to be two years after the coupe.
“And another thing we deferred was the right-hand-drive version. I’m confident it is going to happen, it’s just that it is going to happen a little later.”
How long the VE Commodore-based Pontiac G8 – which is built at Holden’s Elizabeth plant in Adelaide – survives is tied in with Pontiac’s fate.
“It all depends on what we are going to do with the Pontiac brand,” Mr Lutz said. “It is one of the US brands that we have announced that is under ‘strategic review’.
“With the current financial reality of the company, we’ve got too many kids and too many mouths to feed, and three brands ... actually three-and-a-half brands are under strategic review: Saturn, Hummer, Saab and ‘kind of’ Pontiac.
“We’ve said that we are going to focus Pontiac down to one or two entries – and for the time being one of the two entries will be the G8, the other being the Pontiac Vibe, and of course the Solstice Roadster and Coupe – and that’s basically the Pontiac line-up.”
Nevertheless, GM’s global design director (and former Holden design chief) Mike Simcoe told GoAuto in Detroit that the Pontiac G8 had become profitable in North America in recent months, despite selling around half as many as GM anticipated, due to the big drop in the value of the Australian dollar compared to the US currency.
And the HSV-based 6.2-litre Pontiac GXP will still be launched as scheduled in February.
Mr Lutz also acknowledged that there would be a next-generation Commodore produced in Australia using a development of the Zeta architecture that debuted as the VE series in July 2006.
Due out in about 2012 or 2013, it is believed that the next Commodore’s ‘top hat’ (body and interior) will change, as will parts of the drivetrain to accommodate alternative fuel powerplants, but the basic chassis will be carried over.
“It is our intent to continue the Australian rear-wheel-drive cars; we will continue building them and doing a next generation and so forth and so on,” Mr Lutz said.
“And, to be honest, they continue to be my favourite cars. I think they are absolutely wonderful – but the regulatory environment is such that it would be imprudent to base a whole global platform strategy on them ... much to my personal chagrin, by the way.”
Mr Lutz said that, providing GM pulled through the current economic crisis, he expected the auto giant might again be open to the development of a new RWD platform with an expert partner like Holden in Australia – in the long-term.
“What many of us would like to do (one day) is to do an all-new global rear-wheel drive architecture that would be considerably smaller, lighter and be capable of taking four-cylinder powertrains,” he said.
“That, I think, could be globally shared. It’s not even in the plan at this point; it’s just what we tell ourselves in that there is going to have to be a next-generation Camaro, and there is going to have to be a next-generation Cadillac sedan, and so there is going to have to be a smaller and a way more efficient rear-wheel-drive architecture.
“But at this point it is just a gleam in our eye.”
Meanwhile, Mr Lutz revealed that GM’s decision to green light the design, development and assembly of its next-generation ‘Delta’ small car in Elizabeth leaves Holden in a stronger position to weather the vagaries of consumer trends and economic downturns.
“Holden has basically committed to localising a compact car for Australia’s future because we see that is where the growth is,” he said.
Holden managing director and CEO Mark Reuss also said in Detroit this week that sealing the small-car deal for Australia was one of his top priorities when he began his stint in Australia one year ago, and that much of his time since has been spent implementing the program.
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25753D0016D9D3
01-16-2009, 05:45 PM
#2
Staging Lane
bye chevy, it was nice being loyal for so long. hard to stand behind you when i hear crap like this.
and a question, why do RWD cars always have to be big? make some small, light, efficient ones. it was done in the 80s easy enough. look at the fox body stang. 4 cyl-8 cyl RWD. Around the same size as a cobalt.
and a question, why do RWD cars always have to be big? make some small, light, efficient ones. it was done in the 80s easy enough. look at the fox body stang. 4 cyl-8 cyl RWD. Around the same size as a cobalt.
01-16-2009, 05:50 PM
#4
LS1Tech Administrator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Schiller Park, IL Member: #317
Posts: 32,021
Likes: 0
Received 1,471 Likes
on
1,060 Posts
“What many of us would like to do (one day) is to do an all-new global rear-wheel drive architecture that would be considerably smaller, lighter and be capable of taking four-cylinder powertrains,” he said.
“That, I think, could be globally shared. It’s not even in the plan at this point; it’s just what we tell ourselves in that there is going to have to be a next-generation Camaro, and there is going to have to be a next-generation Cadillac sedan, and so there is going to have to be a smaller and a way more efficient rear-wheel-drive architecture.
“That, I think, could be globally shared. It’s not even in the plan at this point; it’s just what we tell ourselves in that there is going to have to be a next-generation Camaro, and there is going to have to be a next-generation Cadillac sedan, and so there is going to have to be a smaller and a way more efficient rear-wheel-drive architecture.
A smaller Camaro, with an efficient 4 cylinder. Garbage. Camaro will end up going the way of Nova in the '80s...a small, shitty econo-car.
The 5th gen Camaro is sized well as-is. All they need to do is use lighter weight materials for the body and weight will drop off quickly. No need to make it look like an Aveo.
01-16-2009, 05:53 PM
#5
looks like gm may go the way of circuit city! seems to me that they will probably continue to push the fwd crapboxes and fullsize trucks and suvs! things continue that way i dont see them being around much longer!
01-19-2009, 06:38 PM
#7
Staging Lane
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Modesto, CA
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Great news as far as I am concerned. I am sick of these 4000+ pound muscle cars we are getting now. Designer a smaller, lighter car - just keep the drive-train the same. 
Trending Topics
01-19-2009, 07:24 PM
#8
14 Second Truck Club
iTrader: (36)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chicago, Il
Posts: 2,633
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A smaller Camaro, with an efficient 4 cylinder. Garbage. Camaro will end up going the way of Nova in the '80s...a small, shitty econo-car.
The 5th gen Camaro is sized well as-is. All they need to do is use lighter weight materials for the body and weight will drop off quickly. No need to make it look like an Aveo.
01-21-2009, 01:01 PM
#11
TECH Resident
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mass
Posts: 958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Capable of 4cyl powertrains. I think what they meant was small and light enough to be driven well by a 4cyl. If they made a small car that can be well driven by a 4cyl but had a V8 option- sounds good to me. The Nova was originally a I6 car, that didnt turn out so bad. Same for the Vette.
I think GM has made more mistakes than P. W. Bush at this point, but I blame the public just as much as I blame them. And I blame our free market economy. In the 70's and 80's Japanese car's were well known to be of lesser durability, reliability, sex appeal, and overall quality. But enough "cheap skate" American ****** bought them so that they could stay afloat in this country and eventually strive.
I just don't understand this country anymore, maybe I don't even want to...
01-21-2009, 02:57 PM
#12
***Repost Police***
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 2,480
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The way current safety regulations are, no company can get permits to produce a car with both v8 and L4 drive train capabilities. There is just no way for them to keep up to government mandated safety codes, and be able to produce a car like the one you are describing. I do agree it would be nice to have a rwd v8 car, that didn't require a v8 just to pull it's own weight with reasonable acceleration.
I think GM has made more mistakes than P. W. Bush at this point, but I blame the public just as much as I blame them. And I blame our free market economy. In the 70's and 80's Japanese car's were well known to be of lesser durability, reliability, sex appeal, and overall quality. But enough "cheap skate" American ****** bought them so that they could stay afloat in this country and eventually strive.
I just don't understand this country anymore, maybe I don't even want to...
I think GM has made more mistakes than P. W. Bush at this point, but I blame the public just as much as I blame them. And I blame our free market economy. In the 70's and 80's Japanese car's were well known to be of lesser durability, reliability, sex appeal, and overall quality. But enough "cheap skate" American ****** bought them so that they could stay afloat in this country and eventually strive.
I just don't understand this country anymore, maybe I don't even want to...
01-21-2009, 03:03 PM
#13
TECH Senior Member
The way current safety regulations are, no company can get permits to produce a car with both v8 and L4 drive train capabilities. There is just no way for them to keep up to government mandated safety codes, and be able to produce a car like the one you are describing. I do agree it would be nice to have a rwd v8 car, that didn't require a v8 just to pull it's own weight with reasonable acceleration.
01-21-2009, 03:36 PM
#16
TECH Resident
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mass
Posts: 958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
http://www.cars.com/go/compare/model...572,10653,9931 here are the v8 offerings from those three companies that also offer less cylinder engines. I would have to say that their v8 counter parts are quite pricey versus the g8 Gxp which is much less money and makes more horsepower, and according to Cars.com gets better MPG
On another note I completely that Audi was using or even offered a 12 cylinder....That's pretty sweet!
01-21-2009, 03:43 PM
#17
LS1Tech Administrator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Schiller Park, IL Member: #317
Posts: 32,021
Likes: 0
Received 1,471 Likes
on
1,060 Posts
02-02-2009, 03:32 PM
#18
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 534
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
to say news like this turns you from GM is just plain ignorant. I'm sorry, but they are adjusting according to the future regulations and market. Thats where its turning, and they are going to try and stay with/ahead of the curve. Obviously its not his favorite choice but the best in favor of self preservation and future success in the auto industry.
At least theres some guarantee the camaro will still be around for another generation. Thats a lot more to say than what other auto makers have been doing sports car wise. Acura axed the new NSX, Toyota its new RWD coupe.
At least theres some guarantee the camaro will still be around for another generation. Thats a lot more to say than what other auto makers have been doing sports car wise. Acura axed the new NSX, Toyota its new RWD coupe.
02-06-2009, 09:00 PM
#19
On The Tree
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This seems like another trend from the 70 and 80's or maybe it is a natural progression to something different in the automotive industry. My opinion is to find a couple of nice 4th gens and keep them put up and enjoy them. ONE DAY THEY WILL BE COLLECTED AND SOUGHT AFTER when we all drive smaller more effecient cars.
