Where are you going now?
02-24-2009, 04:26 PM
#22
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All im saying is that AMerican cars arent the only ones made here anymore, that there ismt as big a difference in buying american s non american as there used to be. I dont care either way, i buy what i want and like no matter where it came from. But so far ive had lets see, 2 zo6's 4 trans ams, a viper, 2 suburbans, a mercury, 2 jeeps, a cadillac, and a dodge pick up. So thats 12 American cars? And ive also had an Audi tt, a BMW 330ci, a BMW M3, a Hyundai, a KIA, a Honda civic, a mitsubishi eclipse, and i dont remember what else.And im only 23. So ive also had 7 or so foreign cars. Like i said, i buy whatever i want regardless of where it comes from. All my favorite gm products are over seas. I want a Holden HSV Clubsport R8 so bad, or a Holden HSV coupe 4 or whatever theyre called, but they arent even offered here! Or there are several opels i like like the roadster that i cant get. Or Alfa Romero, which isnt directly GM but they have thir hand in it like subaru.
ANYWAY back to topic, im going to Audi. The TT was one of my favorite cars and ive been dieing to get into a 2005.5+ RS4 so i think i'll concentrate on that for a while.
ANYWAY back to topic, im going to Audi. The TT was one of my favorite cars and ive been dieing to get into a 2005.5+ RS4 so i think i'll concentrate on that for a while.
02-24-2009, 05:44 PM
#23
Wow, that's mighty bold of you to claim that you're singlehandedly qualified to provide all the answers and someone else isn't.
So straight up, you're right and I'm wrong, period, it's that's simple huh?
Umm, and you have to admit that there's just a little bit of personal bias or conflict of interest when someone totally self proclaims to the internet world that they're automatically correct and someone else is wrong, no?
So straight up, you're right and I'm wrong, period, it's that's simple huh?
Umm, and you have to admit that there's just a little bit of personal bias or conflict of interest when someone totally self proclaims to the internet world that they're automatically correct and someone else is wrong, no?
02-24-2009, 05:56 PM
#24
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Nope... you're just wrong. You act like I'm the only person to tell you so. I was talking to a ~65 year old gentleman that I work with earlier, and told him your viewpoint. And he said you were a fool. He happens to drive a 2005 (2006?) Mercury Montego, but he drives it because that's what he wanted to get. He spoke very highly of his son's Land Cruiser and the other cars that he's owned that have been imports. So he's pretty unbiased. He also has an early-80s GMC van that he drives sometimes but still wholeheartedly agrees with me that for the most part, GM dug themselves into the hole that they're in because of the products that they offered in the 80s/90s. And the UAW helped. So I'm not even close to the only person to share my opinion. So I'll repeat; you are WRONG for saying that someone isn't patriotic based off what car they drive. And everytime you say it, you make yourself look more dumb.
02-24-2009, 06:25 PM
#25
LSILT1 You are completely wrong. When you (and you and others have) question a persons patriotism based on what is in their drive way and what car they choose to buy, you are wrong. Most things you say I will agree with on some sort of level, but when you make coments like that, yeah you're wrong.
If a member of the U.S. military were to give his life defending me/my family and he just happened to leave behind a Honda/Toyota/BMW etc (even one built overseas) sitting in his driveway at home, you can rest assured that I would not dare call that person unpatriotic...only a heartless and ignorant moron would ever attempt to claim something so unreasonable.
So we've all now agreed that buying a particular car makes one neither patriotic nor unpatriotic.
That aside...if everyone in the U.S. decided to purchase ONLY Toyotas, Hondas, Nissans, Hyundais, BMWs and Mercedes from this day forward, you would still see/feel absolutely nothing wrong with that?
In the name and principle of capitalism we still must, at all costs let the chips simply fall where they may?
You don't see any connection whatsoever between a once prosperous nation that purchased ONLY domestic nameplate brands and a nation on the verge of a depression that flocks to import nameplates?
Call it fake loyalty to U.S. products, call it propaganda, call it whatever. I call it survival and the system worked back then.
Of course the world economy, the various causes and effects and even life in general is not that simple but c'mon man, this isn't rocket science.
I don't have all the answers nor, like some others
do I claim to and I too am a firm believer in capitalism and open world markets but uhh, this **** is falling apart before our very eyes. And the world consumer choosing to not buy (or even worse yet, actually encouraging/helping promote the concept of not buying one like some of you people seem to be doing 
) a GM, Ford or Chrysler vehicle isn't going to help make it any better.
02-24-2009, 06:33 PM
#26
Nope... you're just wrong. You act like I'm the only person to tell you so. I was talking to a ~65 year old gentleman that I work with earlier, and told him your viewpoint. And he said you were a fool. He happens to drive a 2005 (2006?) Mercury Montego, but he drives it because that's what he wanted to get. He spoke very highly of his son's Land Cruiser and the other cars that he's owned that have been imports. So he's pretty unbiased.
Honda owners do still pay taxes just like Chevrolet owners do, no arguement there.
02-24-2009, 07:06 PM
#27
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And you know those chinese buicks? Same chassis as the G8...
Seriously? Buy a G8 and get a body kit, its the same car...
02-24-2009, 08:17 PM
#28
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This argument about Honda/Toyota/Nissans being even the slightest bit American just because the companies make some of their cars in America is a pretty weak one.
If you have to justify buying a foreign car by saying "well it's produced here and it has ALMOST as much American parts content as <American Car X>", then it's obvious that even YOU don't buy that excuse.
It's not a valid excuse, not by a long shot. The list of reasons why is huge and has been presented at length over and over again on this forum. There is a reason why the government and ALL capitalists refer to GM/Ford/Chrysler as "domestic" and Honda/Toyota/Nissan as "import". You really think you know it better than they do?
No...he's not wrong. He's got a very good point.
That doesn't mean you are completely wrong though either. I can see validity in some of your ramblings too.
If you have to justify buying a foreign car by saying "well it's produced here and it has ALMOST as much American parts content as <American Car X>", then it's obvious that even YOU don't buy that excuse.
It's not a valid excuse, not by a long shot. The list of reasons why is huge and has been presented at length over and over again on this forum. There is a reason why the government and ALL capitalists refer to GM/Ford/Chrysler as "domestic" and Honda/Toyota/Nissan as "import". You really think you know it better than they do?
Nope... you're just wrong. You act like I'm the only person to tell you so. I was talking to a ~65 year old gentleman that I work with earlier, and told him your viewpoint. And he said you were a fool. He happens to drive a 2005 (2006?) Mercury Montego, but he drives it because that's what he wanted to get. He spoke very highly of his son's Land Cruiser and the other cars that he's owned that have been imports. So he's pretty unbiased. He also has an early-80s GMC van that he drives sometimes but still wholeheartedly agrees with me that for the most part, GM dug themselves into the hole that they're in because of the products that they offered in the 80s/90s. And the UAW helped. So I'm not even close to the only person to share my opinion. So I'll repeat; you are WRONG for saying that someone isn't patriotic based off what car they drive. And everytime you say it, you make yourself look more dumb.
That doesn't mean you are completely wrong though either. I can see validity in some of your ramblings too.
Last edited by Blakbird24; 02-24-2009 at 08:23 PM.
02-24-2009, 08:19 PM
#29
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Ok, so you found a few people that happen to agree with some of what you're spewing...you want me to make a list of those that have agreed with me as well?
Read my post above, in the past I do believe that I have been misinterpreted and misunderstood in some of my statements drawing connections between vehicle purchases and patriotism. If it appeared that I was doing so then I apologize to those that are far more truly patriotic than even I may be.
Honda owners do still pay taxes just like Chevrolet owners do, no arguement there.
Read my post above, in the past I do believe that I have been misinterpreted and misunderstood in some of my statements drawing connections between vehicle purchases and patriotism. If it appeared that I was doing so then I apologize to those that are far more truly patriotic than even I may be.
Honda owners do still pay taxes just like Chevrolet owners do, no arguement there.
02-24-2009, 08:22 PM
#30
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This argument about Honda/Toyota/Nissans being even the slightest bit American just because the companies make some of their cars in America is a pretty weak one.
If you have to justify buying a foreign car by saying "well it's produced here and it has ALMOST as much American parts content as <American Car X>", then it's obvious that even YOU don't buy that excuse.
It's not a valid excuse, not by a long shot. The list of reasons why is huge and has been presented at length over and over again on this forum. There is a reason why the government and ALL capitalists refer to GM/Ford/Chrysler as "domestic" and Honda/Toyota/Nissan as "import". You really think you know it better than they do?
If you have to justify buying a foreign car by saying "well it's produced here and it has ALMOST as much American parts content as <American Car X>", then it's obvious that even YOU don't buy that excuse.
It's not a valid excuse, not by a long shot. The list of reasons why is huge and has been presented at length over and over again on this forum. There is a reason why the government and ALL capitalists refer to GM/Ford/Chrysler as "domestic" and Honda/Toyota/Nissan as "import". You really think you know it better than they do?
02-24-2009, 08:34 PM
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Well my approach would simply be to take into account the driver himself. Because there are those who drive the Malibu, G6, Fusion, Camry, and Accord and pick the Accord cause they liked it the best. I wouldn't call them unpatriotic - they gave their country a chance. However those who skipped the Chevys, Pontiacs, and Fords and went right to Honda and Toyota I would have issue with. I also think that's what LS1LT1 is getting at, just not in the same verbage.
02-24-2009, 08:57 PM
#32
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Yes, but you also have to realize where some of these people are coming from. If they bought an Accord back in the 80s (when the American offerings were lackluster at best) and had a great experience with it, and then they bought another in the 90s and had a great experience with it again, can they really be blamed for going back and getting another one now? Because like I've said, prior experiences are a big part of buying a car. If Ford/GM haven't made anything that you liked, or you've been burned by something of their's that you bought, you're gonna be pretty slow to go back to them now that they have good products. It's going to take a few years of these new good cars before people can see if they really are reliable, because you can't tell anything about reliability in the first 2 years.
02-24-2009, 10:38 PM
#33
Yes, but you also have to realize where some of these people are coming from. If they bought an Accord back in the 80s (when the American offerings were lackluster at best) and had a great experience with it, and then they bought another in the 90s and had a great experience with it again, can they really be blamed for going back and getting another one now? Because like I've said, prior experiences are a big part of buying a car. If Ford/GM haven't made anything that you liked, or you've been burned by something of their's that you bought, you're gonna be pretty slow to go back to them now that they have good products. It's going to take a few years of these new good cars before people can see if they really are reliable, because you can't tell anything about reliability in the first 2 years.
The problem with import owners "in general" is that they tend to minimize any problem they have with their cars. The only 100% vehicle buyback I'm aware of was the late 80's Nissan minivan that we affectionately called the matchbox during my tenure at Nissan. The 300ZX had flambe issues also, but was never on a buyback list. The other thing that the typical Foreign car supporter does is to state that Japanese OEMs make as many cars here as the American OEMs. The Japanese will never support the # of jobs that the American OEMs support. They know they are here to support Japanese Jobs, not American jobs. You can point out on your 2 hands which Japanese cars have more than 50% American content. The majority of American cars easily contain greater than 50% domestic content.
I'll give Honda its due, they do provide more American jobs than any of the other Foreign makes. I actually have a Honda power washer
The Germans, Koreans, and Luxury Japanese brands, provide so few American its ridiculus.And the whole American buyers being more patriotic is really a personal preference. If you think supporting American jobs is patriotic then that is your choice. With people losing their jobs left and right it is an easy postion to see. If you consider American jobs as being one of the primary reason in your vehicle choice, than you could support a logical argument for a Civic, Camry or Tundra. If you are looking at most Lexus, VW, Infinity, Mercedes, Korean, BMW vehicle or even a Toyota Prius you will know your purchase is supporting very few American jobs.
Personally, when I purchase a new vehicle it is the best American built vehicle I can find by an American manufacturer, but I do occasionally buy a used Import just to see what the rage is.
Last edited by TT632; 02-24-2009 at 10:45 PM.
02-24-2009, 11:05 PM
#34
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Honda from the eighties huh? The only import that I bought new was an 84 Accord and was a less than pleasant experience. It was fairly reliable other than needing front brakes every 10k miles and the Automatic transmission going out at 50k miles (thanks to no T/M cooler), and the gas dripping from the non-gasoline compatible vent by the tank, no recall notice here. Wouldn't start in zero degree weather either. On the positive note it was easy to get rid of when I sold it due to the whole passe Honda Quality rage that was going on at the time. A Chevy Celebrity would have given me just as pleasant of a car owning experience.
02-25-2009, 01:06 AM
#35
There was no "misinterpreting" going on... you flat out said that you paralleled a veteren driving a Japanese import to a WTC survivor "buying a camel from Osama Bin Laden." And that an American that drove an import car can't really call themselves a true patriot. If you'd like to retract those statements, be my guest.
But while we're on the subject...would you still buy a camel from Osama Bin Laden Camel Corp. (dba: Saddam Hussein International Trading LLC)
simply because most camel riders said it was the better camel (and if Consumer Reports also agreed) than the ones offered by United Camel Supply in Detroit?Just curious.
02-25-2009, 01:35 AM
#36
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Got some news for ya , Honda isn't doing so great right now , either....
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the...-real-trouble/
Pulled completely out of F1 racing.....
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the...-real-trouble/
Pulled completely out of F1 racing.....
02-25-2009, 01:43 AM
#37
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Actually the G8 was made for this country, its based on GM's global RWD chassis and was made to pass US emissions and saftey tests (unlike the GTO which was soley Lutz's idea and had to be modified to pass here).
And you know those chinese buicks? Same chassis as the G8...
Seriously? Buy a G8 and get a body kit, its the same car...
And you know those chinese buicks? Same chassis as the G8...
Seriously? Buy a G8 and get a body kit, its the same car...
The reason i havnt bought a g8 and done just that is that i was hoping for this until a few weeks ago;
http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/EseriesLS...7.asp?id=Style
but now i just want that more than any other GM car and its pretty clear to me that we wont get one
02-25-2009, 02:25 AM
#38
Patriatism:
i was just saying in another post earlier, most "American" cars are less american than the imports these days. Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Nissan, KIA, all these brands are designed an built here. Hello!!! Is that not american? Becuase the stock holders reside overseas? The Nissan Titan (just one of the few examples here) Was entirely designed, built, tested, and MADE here. It was shipped to Japan. 90% of Honda's revenue comes from here which is why they now design and build them here. Subaru not only builds them here, they care enough to make the greenest car plant in the world. You know what ISNT made here? GM, FORD etc. They're brought here. Sometimes by truck. Sometimes by boat. Granted they are designed here but that takes a handful of people, building takes hundreds of thousands. And besides that, they sell their best products over seas anymore. One Europe's favorite and best selling car is the Ford Mondeo. Have you8 seen any of the chinese Buicks? Or even the GTO and G8 weren't meant for our country. Buying foreign anymore is just as patriotic. And if An american car company doesnt make what i want, but a foreigner does, are you seriously suggesting that i ignore what i want and throw my money away on an american car that wont satisfy me just to be patriotic? And support a country that is spending billions of unnecessary tax dollars on a war over something we have nothing to do with, while our entire economy is crashing becuase of it? This country really hasn't done me too many favors lately. So thanks for your rude opinion, but ill spend my money on what I want from who i want.
Just a little rant before the whole Thats unpatriotic war starts
I really hope you're right, but in the 70's they didn't come to relying on the government for a corporate bailout. GM has ALREADY failed, if it wasn't for the govt, theyd be gone right now i bet. So i wouldn't compare the current situation to that of the 70's. The govt is pretty much running the show now, so even if GM wanted to return to the performance car era, theyd have the govt to answer to who thinks of them as nothing but a waste of precious fuel. So im not banking on that
Toyota never had much performance to begin with, toehr than the Supra, and thats why no one misses it. You take one player from the feild, the game goes on. GM on the other hand has dozens of performance vehicles, that everyones familiar with, spread across a dozen companies. Thats why they're missed. Plus Toyota has plans for a new Supra, if it happens will they then actually be ahead of GM? I mean i know corvettes etc but as far as NEW performance vehicles go, by then GM wont be introducing any and the Supra will be freshly developed. Not stating an opinion, just something to think about.....
i was just saying in another post earlier, most "American" cars are less american than the imports these days. Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Nissan, KIA, all these brands are designed an built here. Hello!!! Is that not american? Becuase the stock holders reside overseas? The Nissan Titan (just one of the few examples here) Was entirely designed, built, tested, and MADE here. It was shipped to Japan. 90% of Honda's revenue comes from here which is why they now design and build them here. Subaru not only builds them here, they care enough to make the greenest car plant in the world. You know what ISNT made here? GM, FORD etc. They're brought here. Sometimes by truck. Sometimes by boat. Granted they are designed here but that takes a handful of people, building takes hundreds of thousands. And besides that, they sell their best products over seas anymore. One Europe's favorite and best selling car is the Ford Mondeo. Have you8 seen any of the chinese Buicks? Or even the GTO and G8 weren't meant for our country. Buying foreign anymore is just as patriotic. And if An american car company doesnt make what i want, but a foreigner does, are you seriously suggesting that i ignore what i want and throw my money away on an american car that wont satisfy me just to be patriotic? And support a country that is spending billions of unnecessary tax dollars on a war over something we have nothing to do with, while our entire economy is crashing becuase of it? This country really hasn't done me too many favors lately. So thanks for your rude opinion, but ill spend my money on what I want from who i want.
Just a little rant before the whole Thats unpatriotic war starts
I really hope you're right, but in the 70's they didn't come to relying on the government for a corporate bailout. GM has ALREADY failed, if it wasn't for the govt, theyd be gone right now i bet. So i wouldn't compare the current situation to that of the 70's. The govt is pretty much running the show now, so even if GM wanted to return to the performance car era, theyd have the govt to answer to who thinks of them as nothing but a waste of precious fuel. So im not banking on that
Toyota never had much performance to begin with, toehr than the Supra, and thats why no one misses it. You take one player from the feild, the game goes on. GM on the other hand has dozens of performance vehicles, that everyones familiar with, spread across a dozen companies. Thats why they're missed. Plus Toyota has plans for a new Supra, if it happens will they then actually be ahead of GM? I mean i know corvettes etc but as far as NEW performance vehicles go, by then GM wont be introducing any and the Supra will be freshly developed. Not stating an opinion, just something to think about.....
02-25-2009, 03:05 AM
#39
I guess it's just upsetting to hear when people make sweeping blanket statements such as "I will never buy nor even consider buying a domestic nameplate vehicle", it certainly sounds just as ignorant and uneducated as anything I might've said up until now.
If an educated consumer exhausts all other alternatives and there truly are no other offerings that meet their needs than I suppose that there really is nothing that anyone can say about it.
) that's how the systems/concepts of capitalism/free enterprise are suppose to work. 
As long as you're happy and can comfortably live with the potential long term effects that your decisions may (or may not) have on your children/grandchildren, that's all that matters.
Hey, ya can't please everybody.
But ya know, one of the most glorious benefits to living in this great nation (and yes, it is still great whether you believe it or not) is the absolute and inalienable freedom, privilege and right to LEAVE IT if you truly don't like it here.
02-25-2009, 03:09 AM
#40
The reason i havnt bought a g8 and done just that is that i was hoping for this until a few weeks ago;
http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/EseriesLS...7.asp?id=Style
http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/EseriesLS...7.asp?id=Style
But I'm telling ya, the G8 GXP comes somewhat close
and is a lot less expensive than that HSV 427 would be if it were available here.