evilZO6

iTrader: (4)

I'm in the air force. I was Iraq when my daughter was born, and still three months later when she was killed in a car accident along with my Mom and Wife. I'm not blaming the contry, im just saying i dont think i needed to be there since i spent the whole time playing x box and eating pizza, under air conditioning. And im saying i made some pretty big sacrifices for this great country. Oh yea, and then they wouldnt give me my GI bill, the reason i joined. Awesome. So what have you done?

buying foreign goods is as good as buying domestic goods, they all pay fees to do business here. Do you think the GOVT is going to allow all business to go overseas without making sure they get a peice of the profit? And besiudes all that, we're not talking about such a general term as goods, we're talking cars



Im at least doing the body work, im going to try and track down the seats and interior. But im already seeing money signs lol. I called HSV and asked if they could pluck a g8 base v6 from the line and modify it for me and send it over. They said theyll check into some regulations and call back. Finger's are crossed!

TT632

iTrader: (3)

We know the story. Your whole family supports Hondas and had 2 domestics that were terrible. You have shared it before. I can share my families vehicle history too, with a 350k Suburban and a 400k+ 82 Firebird. I go through multiple vehicles every year so I dont have a long history with any one, but the one I have kept is American and would put any Honda I have owned to shame. It's a 120k 02 GMC 5.3 that has had nothing replaced including the brakes, and the fronts will probably be replaced at 200k maybe? It doesn't have a lot of miles on it yet, but I'm sure I will have it for another 10 years with the maintenance cost being oil changes and maybe a set of plugs? Just like all of the 70's and 80s Chevy trucks you still see on the road. You can almost keep them indefinately.

Do you actually believe this? There won't be anyone in this country to buy Foreign goods if you don't have a job! Maybe we can all have jobs selling Foreign products to each other. Many of these countries we buy from don't even share our ideals. Hell, if the Japanese werent manipulating our currency to keep the yen to dollar ratio high we could not afford to buy any of their products.

If they want to sell their products here they better make them here. It's a policy that the Chinese have enacted and we should do the same.

88blackgt

you are a dick and you just got owned

thank you for your service evilz06

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

I'm not getting into this useless argument...but I just could not leave this comment stand. This has got to be just about the most uneducated, ignorant statement in regards to the US economy that I have seen in ANY of these threads. I mean there are some real winners that show up from time to time, but this one just shot to the top of the list.

To the poster - if you really believe that, then you might as well bow out of this thread because EVERYONE in here (even the lovable dumbasses we know so well) are a league above you...two in some cases.

Breathtaking.

evilZO6

iTrader: (4)

Honestly, i started this thread about where we were going, i didnt want it to get into a freaking domestic vs foreign BATTLE. We're so far off MY topic now that i was just adding fuel to the fire to further **** everyone off. I know thats not true, just seeing what people would say

DiscerningZ32

Human resources are not bound to one industry. There are over 180 major industries in America.
If America's automotive industry fails then we will just have to re-allocate our human resources to other industries.

Furthermore, Japan manipulates the value of their yen, just as we manipulate the value of our dollar, just as Britain manipulates the value of their pound and so on. As a matter of fact, exchange rates fluctuate on a day to day basis, not only from gov't intervention, but through daily market activity.
Also, the yen has been growing in strength while our dollar declines; the US dollar is worth 97.847 yen, the highest it's been in a while.

You should be more concerned with real exchange rate anyway, the exchange rate of GOODS and services, not currency. For example: a 12oz can of coke in Japan costs 100 yen, in New York it costs $1. Another example: NY minimum wage is $7.25, my cousin in England makes 4 pounds an hour, and the current exchange rate there is .7 lbs = 1 USD.

If you want to discuss unfair market strategies, then lets delve into why US corporations are constantly lobbying for tarrifs on goods. Guess what, while they help domestic producers, they hurt domestic consumers just as much as foreign exporters to America, if not more in some cases.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _

DiscerningZ32

For the last time...

Buying foreign goods DOES NOT hurt our economy.

This section of ls1tech is being littered more and more everyday with ignorant, unsubstantiated posts.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

Funny how you dog on someone elses grasp of economics, then prove you yourself aren't doing so well in that department either.

Rather than diving into a complicated and unnecessary discussion about economic factors affecting employment in this country...i'll keep it simple.

Can you please explain to the class that if it's just as simple as "re-allocating human resources to other industries", then why are unemployment rates near record levels? All those unemployed people should simply be absorbed into other industries, according to your claims, right?

See your comments sound great...hell we'd all love it to work that well. Problem is, it doesn't. See those other industries have to actually be HIRING and looking for people with the same skill sets as those who are unemployed possess. Seeing as the collapse of the American auto industry would mean that the demand for those skill sets would also collapse, those people would end up sitting at home collecting checks. Sure there are IMPORT manufacturers in this country that might be looking to pick up a few good folks (probably at the expense of some of their own employees), but seeing as GM alone employs more American citizens than all the import manufacturers combined, it would help exactly nothing.

Lots of crappy arguments against the domestic automakers here folks.

DiscerningZ32

It's not that simple obviously, as you've pointed out.
I made it sound simple (come to think of it, I never did actually), but the process is long and drawn out.
It takes long periods of time, appropriate investment, and communication to successfully re-allocate any resource.
As you mentioned though, the demand for said workers needs to be there, and in the current state of the economy it just isn't.

Tell me though, what should automotive workers do if the industry goes under?
You're not offering a solution, just criticizing a common principal of re-allocating human resource, which needs to be done in some fashion if and when the Automotive industry collapses. No matter how difficult it is or how long it takes.
I guess you're right though, they won't be absorbed into any other industry, they'll just whither away and die.
There is very little demand for unskilled labor in America, maybe they're just **** out of luck.

Don't worry though, I'm sure someone will dump millions of dollars into the economy to kep struggling businesses alive, lowering the real value of our dollar further, and increasing inflation to lower unemployment and just to keep the good 'ol American industry going. How grand.

BTW, I was mainly arguing against argument about foreign countries manipulating their currency, I wasn't going to go into detail about re-allocating resources. I was just stating that it would have to be done at some point if the industry goes under, there just really isn't any other choice in that case...
Do you disagree?

IronOutlaw

iTrader: (4)

Well, on the original topic.

I would probably buy a low mileage corvette or maybe a newer fbody.


If things got real bad and I had to buy an import im diggin the new 370z.

Jakes Dad

I loved the cars in the 70's also. The government didn't have many standards then for smog, safety, paint, etc. etc.

Someone must be one of Obama's wealthy. Calling the ZR-1 a daily driver? Someone else said GM doesn't build fun to drive cars. We build two seat 4's and V8's We build FWD and RWD 6's even V8's. We build turbo charged mini cars and even a turbo HHR. Buy one tell me they aren't fun to drive!

Times do change. The 70's are over government is here to stay. If nothing else fails - again build what you want. Lots of work but much more pride in driving something you build over something a manufacturer built for you.

Then, if everything fails try a Sports Bike!!

Jakes Dad

TT632

iTrader: (3)

You should run for office in California. Maybe, when we all get layed off, a foreign company will come in and hire all of us. Being a former Develpment Engineer for both a Japanese and an American Automotive OEM, I can assure you, as a whole the Foreign manufacturers don't employ us any great numbers relative to the amount of vehicles sold here. And when you look at the supplier base, the difference is even larger.

They are successful because they are a net export country and we are less successful, as we stopped being a net export country. Their economy is based on exporting goods, ours is not. We have no reason the manipulate their currency since we are not an export nation anyway. They will also support their jobs before ours, as should we. Foreign car supporters, cant seem to grasp this concept. They think we are all just part of one big global democratic family...Kumbaya. Drink that Foreign coolaid guys.

And back to the topic, if things get real bad, you can give up buying any foreign automobile, because you will not be able to afford one without a job.

jimmy169

It's funny some of you talk of how hurt our economy is by not buying American, but those same people will fight against fuel efficient vehicle's or global warming or w/e and not once complain about the money we are sending oversea's when we buy gas. Hurting our economy by not buying American cars huge deal to some, but sending 100's of billions annually out of our country, all a sham right? How much money did Exxon make this year in profit off American worker's backs as our economy tanked?

I'm not saying American cars are less fuel efficient I know they are and they are on top in about every class when it come's to fuel efficiency, but I find it funny and really ironic people will fight tooth and nail to buy American to keep money here but will fight tooth and nail against greener or more fuel efficient technology to keep our money here.

PopaPork

iTrader: (4)

hahahha Never a truer spoken word!

TT632

iTrader: (3)

That's a broad statement, but considering this is a v8 related site I can see how that presumption can be made. Can't speak for others, but Buying American is a way of life in my house for all products. Gasoline, plastic Chinese junk or anything else, gets as low of a ranking as Foreign built vehicles to me. If it's made here, I'll pay more for it if need be, including switching over to Methanol and Ethanol for the race car. With vehicles, it’s easy to do the research to see what’s made here. GM, Ford and Chrysler have higher American content than any of the Foreign vehicles and employ the most Americans. More Americans working is good for all of us! Hell, it’s even good for the Foreigners considering we are their #1 customer. Honda, Nissan and Toyota in that order employ the most Americans of the Foreign brands. This does not include their Luxury brands which are mostly Japanese content. You want to support American jobs and still buy an import brand, forego getting that Lexus and buy a Camry instead. VW, BMW. Mercedes, Hyundai, and the sub tier Japanese cars provide the fewest American jobs. You want to support more American jobs stop supporting those who don't buy from us and dump their products on Our shores.

If you’re talking about going green, I wouldn't look at it in a totally positive light. Look at California; it is a good example of what we could become. They are probably the greenest state in the country, but they buy the fewest American built vehicles, have the most legislation, most Lawyers, largest budget deficit, and of course- home to the octo-mom the symbol of bureaucracy!

DiscerningZ32

Most of what you have said is true.

Overall, buying foreign can hurt domestic producers and in the end result in loss of jobs.
But, being open to trade and importing cars can also overall be better off for the consumer and the social welfare of America and society.
I definitely agree that we need to export more goods, but as it stands right now, we're having trouble just staying afloat.
I also agree that we should support domestic jobs, but that doesn't mean we should do so by closing trade with foreign auto producers or placing a tarrif on goods imported.
I think our government should support the big three, but if they fall on their faces again due to poor sales, inefficient marketing, and/or limited consumer base (mostly just America) then it's just plain foolish to keep reviving them.
It's possible that keeping them afloat is not the best decision...

As it stands as far as affording an automobile, then the support of the big three can be just as detrimental to affording anything.
Inflation that will result from the up coming economic plans will mean more jobs, but too much inflation is obviously a bad thing.

I rushed this post because I need to get outta here, I'll clean it up when I get home...

TT632

iTrader: (3)

I would have to agree that keeping a company with a poor business model or design(s) afloat is not a good idea. We can probably look as far as Fiat or the French automakers to get an idea of that course of action. We can also put almost any Chinese built vehicle in that catagory. Actually, that has not worked out that badly for those countries, but it goes against traditional American capitalism.

I will admit that I have a bias towards American made products, based on our future well being as Americans. I think the British are a prime example of giving up their automotive heritage to foreign companies. If I bought a mini I would want a British Mini, not one made by BMW.

As far as the desirability of the latest American offerings, In my opinion they are better than ever; Ford and Chevy trucks, The SS, The G8, the Challenger and even the new Malibu (I can't recall a time that I would consider buying a front wheel drive American built vehicle when a RWD was available until now). In addition, the major Foreign companies have been introducing very fuel "Inefficient" vehicles (SUV and Trucks) at a time when the American lines are getting better every year. The American public appears completely ignorant to this, which is a shame. You can't intoduce a Prius and claim you are helping the evironment and build a giant Tundra plant and build a V8 4runner with worst in class mileage at the same time. They have apparently pulled this off?

Arguably, legacy issues with respect to health care, finance and the union are a bigger driver than product desirability. If GM loses XX% on every vehicle because of these cost, they are operating at a position of weakness compared to their competitors.