SparkyJJO

iTrader: (11)

Yeah true... though I still hate "yotas and duhs"

Sarge_13

iTrader: (1)

I wasn't entirely sure, thanks for clearing that up for me. I have no experience with the SHO or the regular Taurus.

Jon5212

iTrader: (2)

^^^ No problem, i'm not saying they are bulletproof or anything, but they seemed to take quite a bit of abuse and I was surprised they held.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

But there is a distinction here. The problem comes when the general public perceives certain brands as being "perfect" as is the case with Toyota and Honda...yet these ridiculous issues pop up in their cars. These are the kinds of problems that GM and Ford had in the 90's, when they built their bad reputations. You don't hear about this stuff from new GM and Ford vehicles...but now we ARE hearing about this stuff with new Toyotas and Hondas.

So I guess my point is that GM and Ford now have to live with a bad reputation that they built in previous decades - for 20 years or so they built low quality vehicles. That reputation is proving very hard to shake. Despite the fact that they are now building vehicles as nice, and nicer in many cases, than Toyota and Honda, the public still doesn't see it. But on the flipside, despite the fact that Toyota and Honda have swept problems under the rug and treated customers like lower lifeforms in previous decades, their 20 years of BS is instantly forgiven simple because they've learned to own up within the past 4 years or so.

Again, double standard.

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

What model and where? The closest I could think of was the mid-size from the 70s- early 80s where the very rear of the frame would rot, and that was after 12-15 years of use.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

You should be able to cover the entire frame in wet salt and let it sit outside in the rain and it definitely should not rust that fast.

Basically, in the worst possible environment, with the worst possible owner, it should last longer than that.

Obviously the amount of care an owner puts into their vehicle would affect how long it takes the frame to rust...but it's not THAT BIG of a factor...not like it is with the drivetrain.

PopaPork

iTrader: (4)

You keep saying 'news' these trucks they are 'recalling' are 8 years old. They're not new by any means. If 8 years old is new to you, my NEW 6 year old camaro has roof bubbles and a HUGE bubble under the hood.

And General public think they are perfect? I think this board proves that not everyone thinks they are perfect.

TT632

iTrader: (3)

I for one have seen many silent recalls and buy backs by Japanese OEMs. It's hush hush and everything to do with "saving face". I recall a 100% buyback initiated by Nissan on the 89-90 mini van because eventual fire. If you owned one long enough, it would catch fire. We still had a few of them parked out back in the mid 90's and sarcastically reffered to them as the "match box". You never heard about them in the media or the leaky injectors that followed on other models. The media typically will only jump on Our American manufacturers as in the case of the faked fire by Dateline NBC in the case of the Model rocket engine in the Chevy truck fuel tank fiasco.

I think many people and the media assume just because its a Foreign vehicle it must be good and feel inclined not to criticize them! Some sort of hero worship over German Engineering or neat Asian vehicles. Heaven forbid, the Japanese would never sell us a bad or under-developed vehicle.

Spoolin

iTrader: (8)

Up in Dutch Harbor and Kodiak Alaska. The combination of the elements, driving style and roads make swiss cheese of most all cars regardless of make, GM or not. I'm not crucifying GM or Yota or any car manufacturer for making poor vehicles, I'm simply pointing out that cars and trucks are just steel and they all can be made to rust.
Saying XXXXXXX car lasted for XX years tells me more about the owner than it does the car. Most cars can live for 50 years if taken care of.

Ok, then shower it with rocks and pebbles and throw salt on the frame then freeze the frame and pelt it with hail. Then bend the frame back and forth repeatedly and expose it to 100mph winds and flying debris...see what I'm saying? That is a bad example of the durability of a truck frame.
This article is about trucks and their frames. The frame on my truck has the wax protective coating that your speaking of but loose gravel and road debris has stripped certain areas of the frame already. My truck rarely goes offroad and sticks to paved roads %98 of the time and is only 4 years old.

I agree, but for those people who don't live in an urban environment it does become a greater concern. I think what makes Dutch harbor and Kodiak so bad is a combination of the freezing temperatures, violent unsheltered sea storms, salted roads, unpaved/loose gravel/deteriorating roads, salt sea air and most importantly the MUD!! The mud contains ALOT of salt in it and for some odd reason it doesn't wash off very easily.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

This board is far from the general public. If the site did represent the general public, GM would be producing nothing but LS V8's.

PopaPork

iTrader: (4)

hahahah that is true.....I'll conceed to that.

TT632

iTrader: (3)

I'll drink to that, an LS3 in every model, and the same thing should apply to Mustangs and Imports. They all get LS engines!

TNTramair

iTrader: (15)

some of you guys need to come to gripes with the Fact that EVERY vehicle manufacturer has issues. from Lamborghini to Fiat to Mercedes. what makes Toyota what it has become today is how they go about these problems and how they treat the customer. most of you commenting are just on the "hate everything unless its american" bandwagon.
here's a tid bit of info...the frames on these earlier trucks (tundra, sequoia, tacomas) were made by Dana. why isnt the company that made the frames in the first place being included in such conversation?? the Fact that Toyota stepped up and is offering retail value for your truck if the frame is rotted should tell you what type of company you're dealing with. they could've of easily told customers to go pound sand on your 9 year old truck which you drive in Boston where it snows 25% of the year. but they didnt do that.
i own 2 Pontiacs...a hardtop formula and a ws.6...both of which have bubbles in the roof. i took the ws.6 in to get looked at 4 years ago and was pretty much told to go **** myself cause they werent fixing ****. a 5 year old car with barely 20k miles at the time, they wouldnt even offer to pay for half. thats rediculous.
im also glad to see that atleast some people (popapork and a few others) that understand fully whats happening. +1 for what you guys have been saying and i agree with you.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

GM does the same thing with frame issues...they have forever. In fact, they do it for major drivetrain issues too. I would be very surprised if Ford doesn't do it too. You just never hear about it because it's incredibly rare. BUT TOYOTAS ARE TEH BETTAR!!11!1!

Try to get Toyota to do ANYTHING about any kind of paint issues on their vehicles...defect or otherwise. I know first hand you are going to get nowhere.

When it comes to frame and body defects, it shouldn't be "commendable" that Toyota is replacing these vehicles or offering refunds...it should be EXPECTED. When it comes to paint and drivetrain, well that's a different story altogether. But what you get out of GM for paint is more than you are going to get out of Toyota...i'll tell you that much (again from personal experience).

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

You never let me get away with anything do you?

TNTramair

iTrader: (15)

well i can tell you otherwise sir....as an Assistant service Manager for a Toyota dealer ive covered planty of paint issues that indeed was a defect. if you got denied for any reason than you should look into the dealer you took it to....they control alot of what gets back to toyota and what doesnt.

GM has replaced Frames on vehicles??when?? and if so, than why deny me a simple paint repair that would have cost about $800 to repair???

ive seen plenty of these "bash Toyota" threads and you allways seem to lead the pack on why you hate Toyota etc. Fact of the matter remains, Toyota has a good reputation for a reason. and there's allways people out there that no matter how far backwards you bend, you cant make happy...period.

Spoolin

iTrader: (8)

...

PopaPork

iTrader: (4)

Thanks you TNT, I thought for the longest time I was nutz. It's glad to seem some people can get through the, "Oh if it comes from other seas it's bad, if it's made in the states it's great." mentality.

I'm not saying the US doesn't have great ****, because they do, so before you guys try to twist my words, don't try, the US can make good/great things/cars. But the fact of the matter is the past 10 years, **** we'll say 5 the imports have been above the curve and it's find if 99.9% of the people on this board think they are ****.....the population, the people buying cars think other wise, and thats all that matters.

And this post is about frames and Toyota stepping up and taking care of it. We ALLL know GM doesn't do **** about a paint issue (there are threads all over this site about it) Show me one article where GM on their own, said "Hey your cars are fucked, our bad or not, bring it back and we'll fix it or give you the cash you paid for it 8 years ago." I dare ya....double dog dare ya.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

But then the same can go for GM dealers...perhaps you just have to find the right one...i.e. one with a generous service manager just like yourself.

Not replaced frames. They've replaced vehicles because of frame issues. Again, it depends on the dealer it seems, but I know of two examples in my time. But again, where is your mention of the past 20 years where Toyota not only didn't do anything about major problems like this, but went so far as to deny the problem and try to cover it up?

Apparently you don't pay much attention to what I actually say then. I don't "bash toyota" If you read what I have to say, you'll notice I never say anything to the tune of "Toyota sucks". I definitely dislike Toyotas...they are uninspired plain blahmobiles that I wouldn't be caught dead in. However, as a company, I have very little issue with Toyota. They have done what they needed to do to remain successful in a changing economy. While I don't agree with their product planning, I do have respect for the way they run their business. What I do have issue with is the free pass that they get whenever stuff like this comes up. If the subject of this thread were GM, all we'd be seeing is posts to the tune of "typical GM crap" or "no surprise another GM vehicle falling apart". Now it happens to Toyota and the excusers are out in force.

bearcatt

iTrader: (41)

This video tells the whole story.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRfE_...rom=PL&index=3



.