Chrysler won't repay bailout money
05-07-2009, 12:39 PM
#41
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"In addition, the greatest growth for GM has been in Foreign markets, so they obviously have no problems buying GM vehicles" Wait wait wait wait wait. Everyone keeps saying how unfair it is for the US to sell cars over seas, now your saying they have no problem selling over seas? So even if the taxes were higher they are selling cars no matter what, as you say, their greatst growth has been in foreign markets. Now 2+2 doesn't add up at all. Taxes are bad, if we taxed other car companies like the 3 are tax it would be fair, yet we are still selling a boat ton?
05-07-2009, 01:28 PM
#43
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Just want to point out that GM got to be #1 in the world because they bought out as much of the competition as they could. I do believe that there is a big difference between building a quality line of cars that everyone will buy and buying out other car brands and adding their numbers to yours. By doing that they ended up spreading themselves so thin that they ended up running most of those companies that they bought up and burying them into the ground.
05-07-2009, 02:20 PM
#44
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And besides the trucks and Corvette, the best cars GM has sold in the past couple decades (which were all fairly recently) either came directly from one of those overseas companies that GM of North American had nothing to do with developing, or was adapted from an existing overseas design. If you think the GTO and G8 are "American" cars, they aren't. The best cars that GM and Ford make aren't sold here, and I think if they had been for the past decade or so maybe they wouldn't be where they are now.
05-07-2009, 02:56 PM
#45
Just want to point out that GM got to be #1 in the world because they bought out as much of the competition as they could. I do believe that there is a big difference between building a quality line of cars that everyone will buy and buying out other car brands and adding their numbers to yours. By doing that they ended up spreading themselves so thin that they ended up running most of those companies that they bought up and burying them into the ground.
And I will blow up if I hear one more time that GM needs to build vehicles like they used to. The quality of today’s vehicles is better than any time in their history. It's like comparing the L92 cylinder heads with old Fuelly heads. Yeh, they were okay for their time but the L92's are better in every area; lighter, better flowing, better quality, more robust!
You have some good questions Spoolin. You like playing the Devils Advocate to often for my taste, but at least you have personal experience currently owning a GM vehicle. Nothings worse than hearing someone with no personal experience with a product, re-iterate internet babble or hearsay.
Last edited by TT632; 05-07-2009 at 04:44 PM.
05-07-2009, 06:34 PM
#46
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You have some good questions Spoolin. You like playing the Devils Advocate to often for my taste, but at least you have personal experience currently owning a GM vehicle. Nothings worse than hearing someone with no personal experience with a product, re-iterate internet babble or hearsay.
I don't disagree just for the sake of argument or starting
but I do seem to be a wrench in most people's way of thinking! 
05-07-2009, 06:59 PM
#47
well as the late great Ronald Reagan once said "Government is not a solution to our problem, government is the problem." All our hard earned money just being wasted it makes me sick to my stomach.
05-07-2009, 08:39 PM
#48
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Heres another problem with the car industry....THE INTERNET!!! who's ever idea it was to publish new car invoices killed it for the dealerships. It use to be that the dealership got the car wholesale from the factory and retailed the car to the customer now because everyone knows how much the wholesale price we have to ***** out our cars to the public. I still believe that we should all buy American. All 3 have stepped up the quality and warrantys. As far as electronic devices go what is made in the USA? There is my .02
05-07-2009, 09:04 PM
#49
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Heres another problem with the car industry....THE INTERNET!!! who's ever idea it was to publish new car invoices killed it for the dealerships. It use to be that the dealership got the car wholesale from the factory and retailed the car to the customer now because everyone knows how much the wholesale price we have to ***** out our cars to the public. I still believe that we should all buy American. All 3 have stepped up the quality and warrantys. As far as electronic devices go what is made in the USA? There is my .02
05-07-2009, 10:05 PM
#50
Well one thing for sure is that these bailouts are getting old real quick seems like everyone is to big to go under. It also looks like they are going to give them banks another 75 billion if i understood correctly. Then comes the end of the year to do taxes but now that we get 13 less taken out our check we will just have to pay that much back in the end. I have said it before and i will say it again the government does not want us to be rich. If everyone was rich no one would work and there would be no goods. The government is going to help out the big shots and **** on the normal american like me and you.
05-07-2009, 10:42 PM
#51
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I kinda have to take offense to this, but let me explain why: Before we went full time with speedtweekerz 4 years ago (been in business for 7), I actually worked at the ford kansas city assembly plant where the f150 was built, and let me tell you that I earned every freakin penny I was paid there. We pumped out between 50-60 trucks an HOUR which means you work non-stop. Hell, you cant even go to the bathroom without turning on a blue light and have someone come and do your job while you're taking a ****! Plus there is only 2500.00 worth of labor in an f-150. The media has basically tried to place all the blame on the workers and the union. I will give you that the union does tend to protect the deadbeats but they have been working on that. With that said however the UAW did actually help rasie the standard of living in our country over the past 40-50 years by forcing big corporations to share the wealth with the people who actually do the work. I'll agree that these companies definitely need to get there act together, but the blame lies with management NOT the guys on the floor buidling the vehicles, that I can assure you! I guarantee you if you were to step up and do the jobs that are done on those vehicles for the 15.00 an hour they are trying to get for new hires you would say f*@# this and walk off. Hell I seen people walking off when they were getting paid 25.00 an hour. BUY AMERICAN PERIOD!!
When your neighbor doesnt have a job its only a matter of time before you lose yours!!
Sorry for the rant
When your neighbor doesnt have a job its only a matter of time before you lose yours!!
Sorry for the rant
05-07-2009, 10:52 PM
#52
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Well one thing for sure is that these bailouts are getting old real quick seems like everyone is to big to go under. It also looks like they are going to give them banks another 75 billion if i understood correctly. Then comes the end of the year to do taxes but now that we get 13 less taken out our check we will just have to pay that much back in the end. I have said it before and i will say it again the government does not want us to be rich. If everyone was rich no one would work and there would be no goods. The government is going to help out the big shots and **** on the normal american like me and you.
WE ONLY HAVE OURSELVES TO BLAME FOR THIS!!! We let this petty politics divide us and makes us terrified of change.
05-08-2009, 07:36 AM
#53
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I'm not saying that I think it's fair that Japan blocks us, or taxes us. But lets not blame all of this on some fair tax by Japan when people are saying, "Gm has great growth over seas"
05-08-2009, 08:11 AM
#54
As a loyal GM buyer I've noticed as I go from car to car that the designs (mainly in the engine/bay) have just gotten worse and worse. Even though the cars look great it's getting to the point where I don't even want to consider buying one because doing any service to them is horrible.
Even though I think the union in all is a bad thing, I don't blame the fall of the big 3 on them entirely. Are they part of it yes.
I think it's a culmination of poor business models, more expensive labor then its competitors, pressure from the feds, declining sales in truck models and a rapid 180 by the American public that small is better. (which was brought on by the most recent fuel crisis) Also the media outlets and public perception has made it out to be foreign goods are just so much better that if you don't buy foreign you have no brain. I don't want to call any one a liar but I have read published print that has compared cars and flat out LIED in favor of foreign makes.
It's sad.
Hopefully we still have some American car suppliers in 10 years.
~Jim~
Even though I think the union in all is a bad thing, I don't blame the fall of the big 3 on them entirely. Are they part of it yes.
I think it's a culmination of poor business models, more expensive labor then its competitors, pressure from the feds, declining sales in truck models and a rapid 180 by the American public that small is better. (which was brought on by the most recent fuel crisis) Also the media outlets and public perception has made it out to be foreign goods are just so much better that if you don't buy foreign you have no brain. I don't want to call any one a liar but I have read published print that has compared cars and flat out LIED in favor of foreign makes.
It's sad.
Hopefully we still have some American car suppliers in 10 years.
~Jim~
05-08-2009, 10:48 AM
#55
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You want someone to blame for high labor costs? Look towards the govt that has done nothing to make workers less costly unlike other countries
05-08-2009, 11:22 AM
#56
I'm not against an American earning a living, health care and benefits that go along with what the union promises.
If you haven't been around the union long enough then you still have reason to believe that they help more then they hurt. I've spent enough time in my industry (engineering/construction) to see how the inner working of the union works and I don't think they are necessary or looking out for the worker as much as you think they are. Were they a good thing? Yes. Are they still needed? No. We have federal bodies that mandate/inspect worker safety. Like I said the blame does not fall square on the UAW they demanded higher wages GM gave it to them over and over.
I agree with you 100% our government is dropping the ball on labor cost. If we would restrict out-sourcing and make foreign companies pay more to make it a level playing field and we'd be in better shape.
~Jim~
If you haven't been around the union long enough then you still have reason to believe that they help more then they hurt. I've spent enough time in my industry (engineering/construction) to see how the inner working of the union works and I don't think they are necessary or looking out for the worker as much as you think they are. Were they a good thing? Yes. Are they still needed? No. We have federal bodies that mandate/inspect worker safety. Like I said the blame does not fall square on the UAW they demanded higher wages GM gave it to them over and over.
I agree with you 100% our government is dropping the ball on labor cost. If we would restrict out-sourcing and make foreign companies pay more to make it a level playing field and we'd be in better shape.
~Jim~
05-08-2009, 11:39 AM
#57
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How so?! So we've reached the point where we have to think an american worker earning a living wage, health care, and a chance at retirement is a horrible thing! Im not apologizing to anyone nor are any of my relatives of others I know that are working or have retired from these factories. Without the unions we would have every last cheap trick these companies try to pull on workers. You want to see GM minus the UAW? Go down to Mexico and see their state of the art factories that have no parking lots for the workers because they dont pay them enough to buy a car.
You want someone to blame for high labor costs? Look towards the govt that has done nothing to make workers less costly unlike other countries
You want someone to blame for high labor costs? Look towards the govt that has done nothing to make workers less costly unlike other countries
And I AM UNION...and I can safely say that in some industries unions are not necessary anymore because of government oversight in those areas.
05-08-2009, 12:26 PM
#58
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I'm not against American's earning a decent living either as long as it's on par with the type of work they do. And don't compare factories in Mexico to ones in the US and try to demonstrate that the contrasting conditions are Union relevant. If you want to compare a Union run auto plant and a non-union run one all you have to do is stay within our borders and look at some of Toyota's or Nissan's plants where the workers have VOTED NO on unionization. They are treated very well by the companies and have all the benefits and advantages that those of the UAW have and in some cases have more.
And I AM UNION...and I can safely say that in some industries unions are not necessary anymore because of government oversight in those areas.
And I AM UNION...and I can safely say that in some industries unions are not necessary anymore because of government oversight in those areas.
05-08-2009, 01:07 PM
#59
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^^^ I have yet to see to my knowledge one thing government oversight has helped. And frankly I'm sick of them telling us all how we SHOULD do things.
05-08-2009, 01:11 PM
#60
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As a loyal GM buyer I've noticed as I go from car to car that the designs (mainly in the engine/bay) have just gotten worse and worse. Even though the cars look great it's getting to the point where I don't even want to consider buying one because doing any service to them is horrible.
Even though I think the union in all is a bad thing, I don't blame the fall of the big 3 on them entirely. Are they part of it yes.
I think it's a culmination of poor business models, more expensive labor then its competitors, pressure from the feds, declining sales in truck models and a rapid 180 by the American public that small is better. (which was brought on by the most recent fuel crisis) Also the media outlets and public perception has made it out to be foreign goods are just so much better that if you don't buy foreign you have no brain. I don't want to call any one a liar but I have read published print that has compared cars and flat out LIED in favor of foreign makes.
It's sad.
Hopefully we still have some American car suppliers in 10 years.
~Jim~
Even though I think the union in all is a bad thing, I don't blame the fall of the big 3 on them entirely. Are they part of it yes.
I think it's a culmination of poor business models, more expensive labor then its competitors, pressure from the feds, declining sales in truck models and a rapid 180 by the American public that small is better. (which was brought on by the most recent fuel crisis) Also the media outlets and public perception has made it out to be foreign goods are just so much better that if you don't buy foreign you have no brain. I don't want to call any one a liar but I have read published print that has compared cars and flat out LIED in favor of foreign makes.
It's sad.
Hopefully we still have some American car suppliers in 10 years.
~Jim~