President Obama To Nationalize California Emission Standard & Stengthen CAFE
05-19-2009, 02:28 PM
#41
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Case in point: IL is proposing a state income tax increase of 1.5% to balance our budget. So as it sits, they can't afford to pay for the bills and programs already in place. Currently, this state does emissions testing in only 9 or 10 counties (heavy population areas around Chicago and St. Louis), which represents only a very small portion of actual land within the state. Additionally, we don't test cars 1995 and older, nor is there any sniff test or visual test for '96+. So what happens if the fed says, "test in every ZIP code of the state, and test using the same proceedure as CA". Where does an already strapped state like IL come up with the cash? MORE taxes. Or, if the fed funds the program, they'll just find a way to bump federal taxes or put the country further into debt.
In other words, what is to be gained from doing this? Does the cost justify the means? Make no mistake; I'm no liberal, no tree hugger, nor am I any kind of enviromentalist; but even those people have to admit that the national cost of making CA style emissions testing the *mandated standard* in every corner of the nation is, well, just plain insane. Cars account for what, 25-33% (think that's what I've read) of the greenhouse gasses that concern the liberals? So why concentrate such great national resources on only 1/4 or even 1/3 of the problem?
05-19-2009, 02:29 PM
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read the bill, if that passes it could very easily lead to states telling the Fed to F*** off. This emissions legislation will just be another reason in support of it. It will really explode if the Fed picks up the tab for California's mess of a budget. I know everyone in this thread busting obama's ***** really irritates you, but I think most people don't want the gov't messing with their lives.... especially when it affects a hobby we all love = cars
For instance, if my state, Missouri, enacted California style laws my car would be illegal - or a I could spend a bunch of money to make less power and make it emissions legal (redoing the entire exhaust plus tuning plus other random crap).
05-19-2009, 02:57 PM
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05-19-2009, 03:50 PM
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So...the armored Presidential Limousine will meet these Federally Mandated standards, along with the armored SUV's that provide support? Riiiiiiiight.
The belief that you can lessen oil consumption in the US by increasing MPG standards is ridiculous. our population continues to grow (thank you porous borders and welfare breeders) so how will we consume less oil when our population keeps rising?
Address the real problems: A broken Social Security System that will die by the time I am supposed to collect MY money that was taken from ME..
A broken Welfare system that refuses to die and lives off of OUR tax money.
A liberal government that is more concerned with the guns that I legally own than keeping those who commit firearms felonies locked up in a cold dark cell.
The inexcuseable Border situation and the countless illegal aliens that have taken away jobs from US Citizens, committed crimes against US citizens, and have no interest in becoming a US Citizen.
And finally, a war with no end in sight at the same time we are earmarking over 100 million for Pakistani refugees, giving billions to banks and automakers, and spending billions on outdated social programs.
I love America, I hate our leaders, the two party system, the electoral college, and the federal government with all of my heart and being. I am a Veteran and have travelled to other countries and can see our Country declining and becoming more like some of the countries I've visited. It saddens and sickens me. I would rather die in a revolution than watch my beloved Country turn into a Socialist State.
The belief that you can lessen oil consumption in the US by increasing MPG standards is ridiculous. our population continues to grow (thank you porous borders and welfare breeders) so how will we consume less oil when our population keeps rising?
Address the real problems: A broken Social Security System that will die by the time I am supposed to collect MY money that was taken from ME..
A broken Welfare system that refuses to die and lives off of OUR tax money.
A liberal government that is more concerned with the guns that I legally own than keeping those who commit firearms felonies locked up in a cold dark cell.
The inexcuseable Border situation and the countless illegal aliens that have taken away jobs from US Citizens, committed crimes against US citizens, and have no interest in becoming a US Citizen.
And finally, a war with no end in sight at the same time we are earmarking over 100 million for Pakistani refugees, giving billions to banks and automakers, and spending billions on outdated social programs.
I love America, I hate our leaders, the two party system, the electoral college, and the federal government with all of my heart and being. I am a Veteran and have travelled to other countries and can see our Country declining and becoming more like some of the countries I've visited. It saddens and sickens me. I would rather die in a revolution than watch my beloved Country turn into a Socialist State.
05-19-2009, 05:04 PM
#48
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So...the armored Presidential Limousine will meet these Federally Mandated standards, along with the armored SUV's that provide support? Riiiiiiiight.
The belief that you can lessen oil consumption in the US by increasing MPG standards is ridiculous. our population continues to grow (thank you porous borders and welfare breeders) so how will we consume less oil when our population keeps rising?
Address the real problems: A broken Social Security System that will die by the time I am supposed to collect MY money that was taken from ME..
A broken Welfare system that refuses to die and lives off of OUR tax money.
A liberal government that is more concerned with the guns that I legally own than keeping those who commit firearms felonies locked up in a cold dark cell.
The inexcuseable Border situation and the countless illegal aliens that have taken away jobs from US Citizens, committed crimes against US citizens, and have no interest in becoming a US Citizen.
And finally, a war with no end in sight at the same time we are earmarking over 100 million for Pakistani refugees, giving billions to banks and automakers, and spending billions on outdated social programs.
I love America, I hate our leaders, the two party system, the electoral college, and the federal government with all of my heart and being. I am a Veteran and have travelled to other countries and can see our Country declining and becoming more like some of the countries I've visited. It saddens and sickens me. I would rather die in a revolution than watch my beloved Country turn into a Socialist State.
The belief that you can lessen oil consumption in the US by increasing MPG standards is ridiculous. our population continues to grow (thank you porous borders and welfare breeders) so how will we consume less oil when our population keeps rising?
Address the real problems: A broken Social Security System that will die by the time I am supposed to collect MY money that was taken from ME..
A broken Welfare system that refuses to die and lives off of OUR tax money.
A liberal government that is more concerned with the guns that I legally own than keeping those who commit firearms felonies locked up in a cold dark cell.
The inexcuseable Border situation and the countless illegal aliens that have taken away jobs from US Citizens, committed crimes against US citizens, and have no interest in becoming a US Citizen.
And finally, a war with no end in sight at the same time we are earmarking over 100 million for Pakistani refugees, giving billions to banks and automakers, and spending billions on outdated social programs.
I love America, I hate our leaders, the two party system, the electoral college, and the federal government with all of my heart and being. I am a Veteran and have travelled to other countries and can see our Country declining and becoming more like some of the countries I've visited. It saddens and sickens me. I would rather die in a revolution than watch my beloved Country turn into a Socialist State.
Sometimes revolution is the only answer. In this case, it'd be great if we could just roll back about 50 years worth of legislation and go from there.
05-19-2009, 05:21 PM
#49
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After living there our entire lives, my gf and I packed up all our **** and left all of our family and friends behind in California to move to Idaho. Best move of our lives, and I sincerely mean that.
Make the move, you won't be sorry.
Make the move, you won't be sorry.
05-19-2009, 06:23 PM
#50
This will affect new cars only. The thing that will affect the used car market is if they make the emissions tests standard in all states.
All in all this is a good idea, it will make the U.S. less dependent on foreign oil, will give us the gas mileage we have been asking for(as a society) and will still allow car manufacturers to offer Corvettes and Camaro's...just with a bigger fee for gas guzzling.
The EU has been doing this for years, every car has to pass MOT to get registered and to be driven on roads. This is a good idea and shows both initiative and planning on the countries part.
The president has nothing to do with this bill, it isn't his fault and it isn't even his idea...it is the countries idea...Obama isn't going to show up on your doorstep and point a gun at you saying sell your F-Body...however he will try to keep as prices in check, and keep fuel mileage up.
Everyone always thinks that the next law or new leader is going to ruin the country, and take away your liberties...I see this as the country we take for granted trying to clean up its image, and its mark on the world.
Agree or disagree I do not care...just know that this has been a long time coming. It is a good idea on paper, a good idea for the nation, and it helps our countries image to the rest of the world...which is what we need now more than ever, the America of yesteryear is gone, and it will never return...we are no longer a country of raw producers, we are a service economy where education takes precedence over the ability to produce raw finished goods.
/rant
/sermon on Economic climate in the Industrialized West
All in all this is a good idea, it will make the U.S. less dependent on foreign oil, will give us the gas mileage we have been asking for(as a society) and will still allow car manufacturers to offer Corvettes and Camaro's...just with a bigger fee for gas guzzling.
The EU has been doing this for years, every car has to pass MOT to get registered and to be driven on roads. This is a good idea and shows both initiative and planning on the countries part.
The president has nothing to do with this bill, it isn't his fault and it isn't even his idea...it is the countries idea...Obama isn't going to show up on your doorstep and point a gun at you saying sell your F-Body...however he will try to keep as prices in check, and keep fuel mileage up.
Everyone always thinks that the next law or new leader is going to ruin the country, and take away your liberties...I see this as the country we take for granted trying to clean up its image, and its mark on the world.
Agree or disagree I do not care...just know that this has been a long time coming. It is a good idea on paper, a good idea for the nation, and it helps our countries image to the rest of the world...which is what we need now more than ever, the America of yesteryear is gone, and it will never return...we are no longer a country of raw producers, we are a service economy where education takes precedence over the ability to produce raw finished goods.
/rant
/sermon on Economic climate in the Industrialized West
Couple thoughts:
1. this affects new cars only
2. it isn't going to kill all new performance cars, this is an average standard that has to be mandated across the manufacturers models
3. It will not kill exotics, i.e. porsche lambo ferrari etc since they are low volume automakers and will likely be exempt like the current standard
4. So far I've seen nothing to indicate that there is any mandatory emissions testing change. That would be very unfortunate and of course is not out of the question, but so far I'm not seeing it.
We do have to do something about fuel economy. Our current rate of oil consumption is not sustainable and just serves to enrich terrorist sponsoring states in the middle east. Most of America wants to drive a fuel efficient vehicle because it will save them money.
This might be an inconvenience for us, but I don't see it killing off the automotive enthusiast in any way.
05-19-2009, 07:01 PM
#51
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It may not seem like it will, but I have a feeling the supercars of today will soon disappear. While it may not affect the likes of Ferrari, lamborghini, etc. I can't and I'm assuming most of you as well couldn't even afford one of those. Rather than trying to drill and obtain our own oil, they are pretty much saying "let's depend less on foreign oil by all of us driving hybrids and rolling batteries." What if I don't want to go by a car that's out of this world gas mileage? What if I prefer a car like the G8 GT that gets decent mileage, but is still fun to drive when you put your foot down. I understand it's too soon to be blowing things up when nothings been finalized, but by trying to implement something like this your telling people what to drive. And again if I wanted to live in a state which chokes their cars to death because of emissions I would move to California.
-Joel
-Joel
05-19-2009, 07:09 PM
#52
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05-19-2009, 07:47 PM
#53
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yeah, smart ***... http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs...l/HB01863I.htm
read the bill, if that passes it could very easily lead to states telling the Fed to F*** off. This emissions legislation will just be another reason in support of it. It will really explode if the Fed picks up the tab for California's mess of a budget. I know everyone in this thread busting obama's ***** really irritates you, but I think most people don't want the gov't messing with their lives.... especially when it affects a hobby we all love = cars
For instance, if my state, Missouri, enacted California style laws my car would be illegal - or a I could spend a bunch of money to make less power and make it emissions legal (redoing the entire exhaust plus tuning plus other random crap).
read the bill, if that passes it could very easily lead to states telling the Fed to F*** off. This emissions legislation will just be another reason in support of it. It will really explode if the Fed picks up the tab for California's mess of a budget. I know everyone in this thread busting obama's ***** really irritates you, but I think most people don't want the gov't messing with their lives.... especially when it affects a hobby we all love = cars
For instance, if my state, Missouri, enacted California style laws my car would be illegal - or a I could spend a bunch of money to make less power and make it emissions legal (redoing the entire exhaust plus tuning plus other random crap).
mmhmm...So if your democratically elected representatives vote in favor of this and it passes. Youre suggesting that the state govt will just not comply and rebel over it because your Camaro may not be as legal as it was. We can call it the battle of bowtie
05-19-2009, 07:52 PM
#54
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I'm pleased to see at least one other level-headed response in this thread.
Couple thoughts:
1. this affects new cars only
2. it isn't going to kill all new performance cars, this is an average standard that has to be mandated across the manufacturers models
3. It will not kill exotics, i.e. porsche lambo ferrari etc since they are low volume automakers and will likely be exempt like the current standard
4. So far I've seen nothing to indicate that there is any mandatory emissions testing change. That would be very unfortunate and of course is not out of the question, but so far I'm not seeing it.
We do have to do something about fuel economy. Our current rate of oil consumption is not sustainable and just serves to enrich terrorist sponsoring states in the middle east. Most of America wants to drive a fuel efficient vehicle because it will save them money.
This might be an inconvenience for us, but I don't see it killing off the automotive enthusiast in any way.
Couple thoughts:
1. this affects new cars only
2. it isn't going to kill all new performance cars, this is an average standard that has to be mandated across the manufacturers models
3. It will not kill exotics, i.e. porsche lambo ferrari etc since they are low volume automakers and will likely be exempt like the current standard
4. So far I've seen nothing to indicate that there is any mandatory emissions testing change. That would be very unfortunate and of course is not out of the question, but so far I'm not seeing it.
We do have to do something about fuel economy. Our current rate of oil consumption is not sustainable and just serves to enrich terrorist sponsoring states in the middle east. Most of America wants to drive a fuel efficient vehicle because it will save them money.
This might be an inconvenience for us, but I don't see it killing off the automotive enthusiast in any way.
05-19-2009, 08:34 PM
#55
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The purpose of self-governance – "to ... secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity ..." – has been discarded by the politically powerful. The new vision is political power; the new purpose is to control society by limiting individual liberty and denying it to our posterity. -Henry Lamb
So yes I call BULLSHIT on this and many of the other things the government wants to do 'for us'. But you are right this is not an Obama issue, my distaste reaches far past one man. In order to keep this from getting locked allow me to rephrase my answer in to something that is LS1tech compatible:
NATURE BAD!!! CARS GOOD!!!
05-19-2009, 08:38 PM
#56
Instead of pushing for higher MPG, why the hell are they not pushing for new technology such as hydrogen?? We already have several cars sold in America that run on Hydrogen. The government should be supporting programs to promote that instead of forcing automakers to achieve better mileage.
05-19-2009, 08:58 PM
#57
I just don't like this, as I see it bringing on yet another tax. The government makes a nice chunk of money on the taxes at the pumps. Less fill-ups due to higher mileage vehicles equals less income for the government. You know they will make it up somewhere. State budgets will also suffer, and you know they will make it up somewhere else too.
While I do agree that we do need to lower our dependence on foreign oil, I don't like the government enforcing this. As Tim said above me, we have the means to do away with oil, yet instead of switching to Hydrogen vehicles, we try to just lower our oil consumption. /facepalm
While I do agree that we do need to lower our dependence on foreign oil, I don't like the government enforcing this. As Tim said above me, we have the means to do away with oil, yet instead of switching to Hydrogen vehicles, we try to just lower our oil consumption. /facepalm
05-19-2009, 09:35 PM
#58
Instead of pushing for higher MPG, why the hell are they not pushing for new technology such as hydrogen?? We already have several cars sold in America that run on Hydrogen. The government should be supporting programs to promote that instead of forcing automakers to achieve better mileage.
