Originally Posted by It'llrun

So is your point that this story will be good for sales, since the youngsters(typically) want a car that feels quick or fast? I think maybe that's true, but those kids also tend to want a car from which they can see what's outside all the way around... Can't say anything to help sales based on that opinion. I mean, you can, but not for the Camaro, because those little foreign jobbers offer easy view to the outside. They're usually smaller too, like Civic and S2000.

Originally Posted by It'llrun

Most Honda drivers, particularly younger ones, have little to no interest in owning a pony car. I think the market for the new Camaro is for people over 25 and it will do well. But if those same people want performance, most will pass on the V6 anyway. And, perhaps sadly, most of those who don't want added V8 performance and also test drive a Mustang... have a good possibility of buying the Mustang. It's cheaper, quicker, more efficient, and supposedly larger inside(neither is large inside)... Plus the interior "feels" better... Well, so they say. My point is, the Mustang may not "feel" quicker, but it evidently IS quicker and any kid into performance will probably already know it. Though it has an issue I don't like... More in a moment.

Originally Posted by It'llrun

I know my nephews all know about it. They range from 23(or so) to 18 and while none drives a Honda(all 5 of them drive American branded vehicles), they all read magazines and have friends with various cars. What those kids DON'T know, and most of us probably don't(I didn't till today- even though it's been in print) is that the Mustang V6 has one "minor" problem, which I personally detest to the point, I WILL NOT buy one... Top speed, governed to just 113mph. That's insanity. I suspect that can be remedied with a proper tune, but it shouldn't exist and until it doesn't, I don't want one.

Originally Posted by It'llrun

Btw, the Honda S2000 can reach 148mph and is drag limited, not governed. Other's may be nearly as fast, but I seriously don't care as I won't be buying one. Not because they suck or anything... I just don't want one. The Acura TL(I believe) AWD manual will supposedly cover the 1/4 in under 14 seconds and I believe it is capable of nearly 140, though I admit, Idonno...

Originally Posted by kain01

My original point was that this is good news for the Camaro considering its source. More people will read this article than a magazine on a newsstand for a car comparison. The people who actually sat down and read this article through are also more likely to be ready to purchase a Mustang or Camaro, or are just fan boy's like us. They don't care about visibility, as they are probably already aware of it. The Camaro is SUPPOSED to be smaller than they keep making the damn thing and they are addressing that with the next model. The 4th gen being the longest Camaro ever produced.



Agreed, but in a test drive back to back by people who are ignorant on car's in general will "think" the Camaro is faster. And if that is there only buying point they may go with the Camaro. I agree with most of what you have said though.



So were our Camaro's. Most automatic car's are governed well below the top speed on the speedometer, pretty sure all truck's and truck based suv's are governed at 99 too. It wasn't until recently that the big 3 Euro companies decided to stop governing ALL of their car's to 155. So M car from BMW, no AMG from Mercedes, or RS model from Audi prior to 2008 will go over 155.



That kinda blow's to be drag limited at 148, there's a video on here somewhere of a beefed up Trans Am going around 170ish.

According to the mag's (because I have never seen an Acura at a drag strip), no Acura beside's the NSX, RSX, and TL SH-AWD, have been able to break into the 14's. The RSX's fastest time I've seen is a 14.9, the TL was 14.8, and the NSX I think actually dipped into the 13's. Mid to high I think, as I don't keep magazine's for that long.

Here's a link to the RTD on Car and Driver's site for a quick comparison of the time's they have gotten.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...digest-feature

Originally Posted by Irunelevens

TLs have gone LOW 14s stock (maybe high 13s), NSXs have gone high 12s, RSX-Ss are capable of mid 14s. I don't place much value in magazine times.

Originally Posted by kain01

That kinda blow's to be drag limited at 148, there's a video on here somewhere of a beefed up Trans Am going around 170ish.

Originally Posted by kain01

Well these are the only number's that are published, and are GUARANTEED to be 100% stock down to the oil. Not to mention they typically use the same driver's for these test's and anything with more than 500 horses they get a professional driver to test, it's not the editor's drag time. I mean are there faster one's out there? Are there better driver's out there, absolutely. But the mag's are about as close to a fair fight as these car's will ever truly get. Just stay away from Road and Track.

Originally Posted by It'llrun

It is what it is. The new 5.0L Mustang is governed to only 146mph according to car and driver, but 147 in another article by the same C/D, testing the 'vert. A modified car doesn't exactly count though, in a stock top speed test. I'm sure there are Honda's that, when modified, will go well over 150mph, not including bikes...

I don't like speed limiters on anything beyond the nut holding the steering wheel. Surely, if limiters are removed, nearly every vehicle using one will reach a new top speed.

I'll see your C/D link and raise you to a newer one...

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test

It's just about the Acura TL, but according to the same folks who showed 14's, it now runs 13's... It's also a tad faster in the newer article. It seems the one they tested in your link was a 2009 model and the newer article was a 2010 model. I've seen NSX's run low 13's at the track and I believe they can do it all stock, but that was then. It's no longer in production though, right? I haven't seen a new one in quite awhile.

As for the magazine tests, I don't trust either C/D or R/T because neither often gets the best ET's from anything resembling performance. They've gotten better, but still, many people who buy performance vehicles get better results on their own, still stock, just as many others get worse results.

Another thing you may or may not have noticed is that C/D calculates 0-60mph and 1/4 mile ET's using a 3mph roll out, which isn't exactly a drag race and may produce better OR worse times in any given vehicle.

C/D published results for the new Mustang GT, showing the ET as 13.2 @109mph... We've already seen 12.8's and 7's @ 110+ from basically everyone else, without a roll out.

Originally Posted by kain01

I'm not saying the magazine time's are perfect, or that they are the end all be all. I'm just saying that typically your average joe driver who has never seen time at a drag strip will be hard pressed to do much better than they do. Yes with a driver mod every car is typically going to be a few tenth's faster, but you're splitting hair's at that point.

As for the 3 MPH roll out, I"m willing to bet that produces a slower time than doing a proper burnout and going from a stop.

Originally Posted by ThisBlood147

Mileage ratings are averages.......not maximum capabilities. Most cars are able to achieve better mileage than what they are rated at on the highway. Your car may have been rated at 22-23mpg.....but makes 8 to 9 more than that on the highway. I'd suspect that both the new Camaro and Mustang sixxers are probably capable of mileage in the 34-37 mpg range. Maybe some actual owners can chime in here...