Darksol

I read it was a entry pay level. And $14/hr to install door panels isn't horrible pay. The union is making itself look greedy. And that is the view most Americans have of "Organized labor".

Darksol

Or do what the rest of us do. Look for another job somewhere else. As stated there was a time and place for unions in this country. Not so much now.

I look at this way. The guy on the assembly line gets $25 to put part x in. The auto tech that went to school to learn how to fix the WHOLE car gets $18-22. WTF? The pay is out of line for the job they do. They get specialized jobs in these plants. If they drive a forklift that is all they do ALL DAY EVERY DAY. They don't drive a forklift then bolt on wheels then bolt in seats and later in the day install rear assemblies. Unions will not stop jobs from leaving the country. They will not stop outsourcing. If anything in this economy they will spur the drive of jobs out of the country. Why pay Dave $25/hr in a union to do what Jane can do in the same plant for $15? I would work in a plant doing the same thing everyday, every shift for pay like that if I was interested in working in a plant. I live in STL. Dodge closed the plant here that made minivans and Rams. Ford closed its Explorer plant here too. How did the unions stop them? How did they protect the jobs? Why didn't other plants strike against Dodge or Ford when those people lost their jobs? Wheres the solidarity? Its a false brotherhood.

wannabess00

iTrader: (1)

Only because corporations have something to lose by allowing its workers to negotiate with them. They have hired firms that run ad campaigns to make sure every American worker has a delusional view of unions in order to help keep them from votes in their businesses. Funny how you you never hear about the CEO and other execs that take home over 80million a year and how CEOs now take home over 500 times what its workers do as opposed to 3 decades ago when it was less than 90 times. And yet unions are somehow the greedy ones.

wannabess00

iTrader: (1)

You'll get no objection from me on the lousy job we do of getting justice for those working in factories that are shut down. If reverse Marxism is your argument regarding proper compensation for workers based on skill level then thats your choice but whether you like it or not the people that once did those low skilled jobs were the same ones that fought to earn the standard of living we all enjoy today. Looking for another job is much easier said then done when companies keep shutting the doors and moving the jobs for more profits to fill their pockets with. Corporations no nothing of compassion and laws and unions are the one thing keeping them from abusing workers as many American companies do in parts of the world they can get away with it

Darksol

Oh no. I think that CEO's should be the first to be fired or at least have to endure a pay cut when a company is faltering. But how can anyone think that 15% pay increases are reasonable? When the rate of inflation from say January of 2009 to January of 2010 is less than 3%.

http://www.inflationdata.com/inflati...sp#calcresults

I like to site my source info.

wannabess00

iTrader: (1)

No I dont want to hear your outrage about a lousy CEO taking home millions. Anyone one can be outraged over that.Tell me honestly, How would you handle yourself when a hand full of individuals are telling you that the pay and benefits you need to take care of yourself and your family is too much for them to afford when they themselves take home nearly $500million between themselves year after year?

Darksol

Thats like saying we should drop bombs on the UK for independence. The war is over. We have that standard. IF the conditions were to slide back to those of say 1900 or earlier then by all means fight. That isn't the case though.

Another reason this country is as good as it is is because we can choose not to buy products from those companies. If you feel you have been wronged take your business somewhere else. Unions are not going to stop the outsourcing. And business are in business to MAKE MONEY. Not friends. They unlike politicians are not elected to have your best interest in mind just their bottom line. Its cold.

How do you buy a American TV or stereo for your car though? Those industries left America for cheap labor a long time ago.

wannabess00

iTrader: (1)

What your saying here doesnt make any sense. So I wont argue it.


No, unions wont stop globalization, nor do I believe we should. Im very much in favor of it personally. And I want to be among those that will one day win contracts and recognition for Mexican workers and start to give those people a decent standard of living.

Darksol

Show me a company that isn't run that way? Stock holders are who those guys answer to. I am not his boss. I am not the one who has the power to take away a CEO's power. This country was built on the backs of hard workers and those same hard workers had tycoons standing on them backed by the government. The government eventually created OSHA and other regulatory bodies and laws to protect the employees more.

Now I will stop there before this topic gets derailed to a political one. And I hope others do to as that will surely get this thread locked.



I respect your point of view Wannabess00 and I enjoy the debate with you. I felt it should be said since to many topics turn in someone getting butt hurt. And I thank you for that.

Darksol

Ok I'll say it this way.

The standard we have today is here already. The unions that fought for them no longer need to fight for what we ALREADY HAVE. They no longer need to fight. Hence why I said that would be akin fighting the British over independence when we already have it as well. Get it? When a battle or war is over the soldiers go home and put down their weapons. They don't continue to fight for a cause they already fought for.


That sounds interesting.

wannabess00

iTrader: (1)

I do this for a living and am open to respectful conversation about this any time. I still think it relevant to the topic either way.

As far as this analogy goes, we can use it if you would like. By your logic, whats the point of even being a country? The British are no longer tyrannizing us and the grievances we had back then are certainly out of date so why bother being a country? Unions arent a singular faction that is only relevant to a singular cause and at the end we dissolve. We are suppose to exist as a government run by American workers on the behalf of American workers that is elected by American workers. I understand its very difficult for those on the outside to understand or for those who have never sat at a bargaining table with a giant corp. I will certainly grant that we have lost our ways in certain areas as advocates for social justice and many of our leadership have outdated views as do many politicians do but we wernt a movement that only existed to help a single moment in history. Theres still much to be done

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

BS, stupid and hateful and typical anti union comparison.


im betting gettlefinger or any other union rep would have you walking away from a bargaining table crying like a 3 yo so you can STFU and GTFO.

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

UAW and other unions arent going away. deal with it. no need to have this argument over and over.

but what i find funny is WTF do alot of you that bitch about unions buy union made cars? lol, seems like some people are FOS.

buy foreign cars and be proud of yourself as many middle class wages go away. yes, i know everyone should be smarter and get better jobs and have no say on what goes on where they work. after all, employers always makes decisions with their empoyees in mind. yea right. keep thinking that and think you cant be replaced or laid off becuse youre too smart or too good lol.

180ls1

iTrader: (4)

you cant always do everything perfect, i try to support americs but dislike unions what real options do i have?

Can you explain to me why it is ok that my tax dollars go straight to unions for construction projects when study after study has shown the union projects cost more? Why can there be open competition for everyone to bid, after all im paying for it.

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

well, in alot of cases union companies are better trained.


can you show me a study that says most construction projects go to union co. over non union?

but again, why does every time unions are brought up it becomes a bangwagon of anti union posts of mostly stereotypes and nonsense?

if a union worker makes more than a job someone thinks should get more thats how it goes. no need to badmouth that person because they have a job where theyre represented and another field isnt. thats how it goes. live with it. no one forces anyone to buy anything made or built by unions. SO DONT if you have a problem with it.

talk to your local politician or your state reps if you have a problem where your tax money is spent. good luck with that though lol.

88blackgt

Why is it that these "better trained, more qualified" workers are afraid of a free market?

Whats wrong with letting the market determine what someone should be paid rather than artificially raising wages? Get rid of the unions and we'll see what employers are willing to pay for the work these people do. If they really are worth that much more they wouldn't need a union to represent them, they would earn and keep these jobs by their own merits.

You complain about a "living wage" but artificially raising wages of workers increases the cost of living. Say all the bread bakers go on strike because they think they should be paid more? Guess what the price of bread will go up if we have to pay the bakers 15% more.

If you think you should be paid more by all means quit and go get that job, because if you are really worth more someone will pay it. Or we could unionize and artificially raise or wages through extortion...

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

orangeSS logic = fail.

Lethal Z

You know its funny to me to listen to some of you bash unions and then turn right around and support the cars that they build. Who are you having never worked in a factory to sit back and determine what sombody else should make. So what they make $30 dollars an hour, if thats what they bargain for then thats what they should make. Theres a ton of training that these guys go through, lots of skill goes into what they do. How dare you attack them. You think the price of the car is gonna go down if there pay gets cut in half? Get real, the CEO's will take that money and put it in there own pocket. How about supporting the working guy. Union people spend the money they make in your neighborhoods. The money that these hardworking people make keep economys moving. Quit being a f*cking hater and support them.

Wnts2Go10O

iTrader: (12)

pretty standard for a group of people who would be working at McD's without their 30 an hr bolt tightening job.

Lethal Z

How would you know that exactly? The fight to maintain a decent wage has always been under attack where the hell have you been? You ever stop and ask youself why we as a country went from the manufacturing leader of the world to a county that now has almost no manufacturing. Because its cheaper to build it in a third world country. We will never be able to compete with a country that pays there people 3 cents an hour and no benefits. Do you see the price an anything dropping as a result? If anything its going up and continues to go up as CEOs and fat cats do everything they can to stick another nickle in there own pocket. The middle class is being destroyed and its gonna happen right under the noses of peope just like you, why because the mindless think that unions are no longer needed and big business is gonna take care of you. There gonna take care of you alright, right from the rear. Wake up people, the war ain't over its just gettin started.