TriShield

The Price Of Green: Savings At All Cost



By Bertel Schmitt on March 7, 2011

Gas prices are getting into the area where they affect consumers’ buying decisions. According to a new Kelley Blue Book study, more than 80 percent of car shoppers say that gas prices have influenced their buying decisions. 58 percent already have downgraded.

But what about switching to diesel or hybrid instead? Be careful when you do that, says Edmunds: Choosing a green alternative can cost you a lot of green.

“Now that federal tax credits have expired, car buyers may be surprised to learn how long it takes for savings at the pump to offset the additional expense of buying a hybrid or diesel car,” says Ronald Montoya, consumer advice associate at Edmunds.com.

Some of the worst choices, says Edmund, are the BMW X5 xDrive35d (takes 25.2 years before savings kick in), the Volkswagen Jetta TDI (13.8 years) and the Nissan Altima Hybrid (10.3 years.)

To help you choose the greenest car that saves you the most green, Edmunds compiled the list of Top 10 Diesels and Hybrids With the Shortest Break-Even Periods for 2011.

Surprise, surprise, the list is monopolized by an unlikely candidate: Mercedes-Benz.

5 of the Top Ten are Daimlers. The leader of the list, the 2011 Mercedes-Benz GL-Class Diesel, even is $961 cheaper than the gasoline model. Buy it, and you started saving before you drove off the dealer lot.

#2 is the Lexus HS 250h Hybrid.

Lincoln lovers get a good deal with the MKZ Hybrid.

The Prius comes fourth, it takes you a little more than half a year to break even.

Rank Model Premium Savings per year Break-even after
1 2011 Mercedes-Benz GL-Class Diesel -$961 $694 -1.4 years
2 2011 Lexus HS 250h Hybrid $85 $990 0.1 year
3 2011 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid $167 $1,093 0.2 year
4 2011 Toyota Prius Hybrid $620 $882 0.7 year
5 2011 Cadillac Escalade Hybrid $1,966 $1,102 1.8 years
6 2011 Mercedes-Benz E-Class Diesel $1,428 $640 2.2 years
7 2011 Audi A3 Diesel $1,432 $617 2.3 years
8 2011 Mercedes-Benz R-Class Diesel $1,433 $567 2.5 years
9 2011 Mercedes-Benz M-Class Diesel $1,427 $544 2.6 years
10 2011 Mercedes-Benz S-Class Hybrid $1,317 $476 2.8 years

Remember: All cars on the list are the best performers. If your green diesel or hybrid is not on the list, then you most likely won’t see any savings before the lease is up.

Also, there are no EVs on that list.

It'llrun

Yeah, well... How someone did it back on the farm and outside of America plays zero role in how we're forced to do it in America. We have serious compliance rules and systems are priced accordingly. Standard batteries are probably illegal in America. Not that they should be, but they probably are. Besides, with the batteries most often found here being non-serviceable, they won't last long enough in many cases. Getting your electrical system working outside the prescribed guidelines can be expensive if you're caught or have a fire.

That's only 1 reason it still isn't feasible to use solar power here... It's okay if you intend to live in the home for 30+ yrs, but 20 or less isn't so great. Of course, I'm guessing the system isn't warranted beyond 30yrs anyway...

On the car, it's probably fine... At the price of most hybrids, solar panels should've never been an afterthought.

NW-99SS

iTrader: (6)

^ Agreed. Recovery cost can be 10+ years depending on what your costs were. Still not feasible the way jobs and markets and people move for the average joe....but if you're well planted, well who knows.

sssuch

All the bitchin and whineing about plug in and heater when the real complant should be about the $5000.oo dealer mark up. G M is trying to launch a new car that may or may not be the future of the company. If you sell a new vehicle for more than list price then you get cut off , no more vehicles from the manufacturer and you're out of business. For me the Volt would be great , most of my trips are 30-40 miles round trip I live out in country and closest town is 15 miles . If you go on longer trips it has gas backup so the car is not useless beyond its electric charge.It would be great to have one as a second car, but I will never give up my Silverado almost couldn't live without it. But it would be great to get around without gettin cornholed at the pump everytime some a rab farts.

It'llrun

I read somewhere that there are large markups due to lack of availability. Then I looked for a Volt online just to see a markup so I'd know how much it is... I found 5 and none was marked up, which DID surprise me.

The base price alone is enough to skip the Volt(and nearly any other Hybrid) from becoming a standard type auto for a very long time. That is, most people will still opt for less expnsive standard gasoline powered vehicles.

Topping off the concerns with these vehicles is the fact our illustrious President has a "plan" to "necessarily bankrupt the coal industry" and that will cause the price of battery power(electricity) to rise.

fspeedster

iTrader: (6)

At least it's not going to a foreign country (oil) who will then use the money to fund terrorist groups, etc.

TriShield

Nissan electric car stranding owners



Justin Hyde



Now that electric-powered Nissan Leafs have been driven by the first owners for several weeks, Nissan's claimed 100-mile range is being tested in reality. The result? Reports of Leafs running out of juice and stranding drivers with little warning.

Although the details in the complaints on the MyNissanLeaf forum differ, the common thread in each is the Leaf suddenly paring back the estimates of its range in the middle of a trip, ending in a brief "turtle" mode — marked by an orange turtle icon on the Leaf's dash — followed by the car shutting down to prevent battery damage.

The Leaf's software is supposed to give drivers gradual warnings as they discharge the 24 kWh battery pack, with several visual and verbal notices including a "—-" on the miles-to-empty indicator before the turtle icon switches on. But that wasn't the experience of a Leaf owner from San Diego last month, who was the first to report a shut-down:

"Went from 17 to —- to turtle to dead in about 5 miles. 2.3 miles from dealer. 4.2 miles from home. Part of me is amused that I may go down in history as the first dumbass to drive the car into submission. But I am slightly shaky and upset as I thought there should have been no problem getting home."

Another owner suffered a similar experience, leaving the Seattle airport last month for a 15-mile drive home with the Leaf reporting enough power for 26 miles:

Around downtown the range is down to 8 miles (still plenty to get home, which was by then 5 miles away). At the ship-canal bridge it went into turtle, I barely got off the freeway. 2 Mile from home and after about half the distance it told I would have from the airport, i.e. 13 actual miles driven, it went dead. I actually managed to drive 400 yards in turtle mode. 10:30 pm, wife and screaming kids in the car (which was blocking the right lane of a busy road), just came back from the east coast, cars zooming by and honking, several near misses.

Nissan provides complimentary towing to Leaf owners for just such events; it had to provide the same service to a Barron's reporter after she attempted an 82-mile drive to the beach. In the Seattle case, the operators who took the tow-truck call asked if the Leaf just needed a jump start.

Nissan has long maintained that how many miles the Leaf travels on a charge will depend on the driver, but has said the Leaf could go as far as 138 miles on a full charge, with an average driver getting 100 miles in city driving. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's official rating is 73 miles, and many owners on MyNissanLeaf report between 60 and 80 miles of range daily. The Leaf estimates the range left not just on how much energy is in the battery pack versus what's flowing to the wheels, but also by tracking data on how agressive the driver has been in the past.

But early Leaf owners may also have nature working against them, thanks to Nissan launching the car in winter. Electric car batteries hold less energy in cold temperatures, and unlike the Chevy Volt and other electric vehicles, Nissan did not build an heating system around the Leaf's battery pack.

Even so, another Leaf owner isn't happy with Nissan's promises after getting just 50 miles of range on most of his morning commutes:

To be honest, I'm OK with 50 miles, especially since I get more like 70 when I'm off the highway. But I'm not OK with Nissan's overblown estimates that they are passing through their naive sales people in order to sell more cars. They HAVE people lined up to buy this car — by overselling this, they are risking severe backlash once buyers realize that they have paid 40K for a car that goes 50 miles, instead of 100...My wife has a 50 mile commute that is too risky to do on an 80 percent charge. Again, real range estimates from Nissan would have made me think twice.

Nissan spokeswoman Katherine Zachary said while it has reports of a couple of "isolated" events, the automaker sees no trend of unexpected shutdowns among Leaf owners. Early Leaf adopters are willing to embrace the range anxiety of electric vehicles, but mainstream customers that Nissan will need to sell the Leaf beyond its 20,000 pre-orders may not be so tolerant — especially if the Leaf can't accurately predict the call of the turtle.

It'llrun

That's not a valid excuse, however.

Besides, at some point the money probably will be going to a foreign country. Not only that, but we could use our current supply of oil and prevent sending billions to foreign countries right now. Somehow, we're not using anywhere near as much of our own oil as we could. I'm aware of the reasons by and large. That doesn't make any of them right for America.

It'llrun

This news is almost shocking!(pun intended). Hmmm... I wonder if there are any good reasons I don't own an all electric car.... Hmmm... Yes! Yes there are.

fspeedster

iTrader: (6)

IMO..the government is the one who needs to step up to the plate now. They believe electrics cars are the future so they need to make it more affordable. With the technology we have now, id figure Wind and Solar energy should be affordable by now. With our Oil reserves and a vast amount of Wind and Solar energy i belief we can be foreign Oil free...

It'llrun

The problem is, our government stepping up is US stepping up. Personally, I don't want a single tax penny to be spent on these cars. If someone wants an all electric, or wind, solar, nuclear or hydrogen powered vehicle, they should do all they can to get one. It needs to be safe enough so that anything it emits in the event of use or crash isn't going to be any more harmful than the typical current vehicle. More harmful to them doesn't bother me, but for everyone else, it needs to be safe. If and/or when those fuels become feasible, Americans will use them. We don't need our goverment forcing any of them.

These things aren't only possible through government mandate and I think the government should also stand aside on that front, along with economy.

People will build and use what works best for them... It's standard fare. We build something based 1st in need, function... It helps drive any economy. When the government gets involved, form often gets placed over function. This drives costs up and economy down. For example: Our government already insists that certain vehicles meet certain emissions requirements. In turn, these vehicles are fitted with "clean burning" bits... Those cost money, adding to the price of the vehicle. They also demand higher economy, but using those "form" ideas has lowered economy and they just SAY they care when in fact, they clearly don't, unless it's about them getting more money. We've had several vehicles in the past which got better ecomony than most vehicles today. Thanks to governmental intervention over the years, we have lower economy and more cash into vehicle produtction.

I digress... Your point sounds great, except that our government doesn't actually own a business(legally) and isn't allowed to profit(though it does, by the second). Any money it spends is money WE, the People, spend for it. Worse still, it ALWAYS costs more when we support the governments ideas over the ones we know work. Left to their own devices, our "Big 3" would certainly be producing more economical, less expensive vehicles for our consumption choices.

Finally, we have an estimated 200yr supply of fuel... Let it be used and someone along the way will develop a better alternative... BIO-diesel is an EXCELLENT choice, but our government isn't pushing that idea in the least... Why not? It doesn't bring them billions in revenue.

fspeedster

iTrader: (6)

What I meant was for the Government to create more Solar and wind power plants (many,many more) to invest more in future technologies. I din't mean to go into business with this stuff. Solar panels are expensive as fuc$# right now and it don't make sense!

It'llrun

What I meant was... NO! It's not on the government. This is the kind of thing that's gotten America into debt for decades.

If it's worth doing, let the private sector decide by accepting it as worthy(through purchase). I know what you're saying, but I don't think that mindset is looked at for what it is and quickly turns into reasons for the government to waste tax dollars and they all too often oblige as if it's all their money when the fact is, none is theirs.

fspeedster

iTrader: (6)

OK...then who is the government to tell the "private sector" how many MPG's they should be putting out? A few square feet of solar cells go for hundreds of dollars, that makes no sense!

It'llrun

It's rightly no one, but it does what it wants while restricting the rest of us. And while they're dictating all the mpg requirements, they're also FORCING manufacturers to use economy ruining crap like catalytic converters in some lame and lunatic idea that we'll have a cleaner atmostphere than if we'd burn less fuel...

This is a problem which never existed before the EPA existed... So, just 40yrs and some months. Prior to then, the US government asked the same question you just did. Ultimately, they answered it by creating a department to do exactly that. It was and remains unconsititutional as far as I'm concerned.

There are those calling for the abolishment of the EPA... More power to THEM!

This is a normal opinion, but it doesn't mean we get to force someone else to pay for what we want. I mean, hey, I need another 2500 sq ft of home and it's so expensive... How about you buy it for me?

Simply enough, people who want solar panels should pay for solar panels. People who don't want them should be able to keep their money where they want their money... After all. they may want a wind powered car.

Do I need to pay for THAT too? I prefer gasoline or diesel and since those who want alternative fuels aren't buying my fuel, I see no need to buy the fuels they want.

OSUBraden

Alternate headline: People realize electric cars need electricity...which comes from hydroelectric dams and coal in the USA.

Alternate headline: Electric cars kill fish and birds.

D3VIL

Heres a different solution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AUurBnLbJw

I love Honda products, they typically think their products through before putting it on sale.

"This car is the car of the future because it fits in todays world"

RaggedRides

iTrader: (8)

Amazing how the forklifts, pickers and reach trucks at the warehouse I work at can pull 8-16 hour shifts on a single charge. Granted they aren't going very fast, but they're heavy and spend the entire time lifting and dropping things from up to 30ft in the air.

All they can do and the Leaf can't even get me to Wallmart and back?

It'llrun

The speed factor is most of why.

Cool28

iTrader: (2)

There is another tech coming down the pipe that could help electric cars. Called solar paint. It's about 10yrs out yet though but it's way better then solar panels.